michael_33 Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 I wasn't sure of the cap implications on trading davis and was wondering if he anybody here thinks that trading him would be a good idea? I know he still has some years left on his contract and i've heard and read that renagotiating would be better than cutting him! But,if we have no plans on keeping him in this system,would it be bad to get something for him? Like maybe a first or second round pick since we might have some money with all thats going on? I'm not sure,so what do you guys think? I like davis and everything,but if he isn't going to play here;i would like to get something for him to help next season! Anything would be good at this point!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thito_da_skins_fan Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 if we can't afford his contract, how can anyone else? and besides, he has a NO TRADE claus in his contract... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brave Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 Originally posted by michael_33 I like davis and everything,but if he isn't going to play here;i would like to get something for him to help next season! Anything would be good at this point!!! What we'll get is some cap relief from his impending $11M hit. Like THiTo48 says, no one else is going to take on that kind of money for Davis, especially when his problems of late (fumbling, ineffective short yardage rushing) have been so well documented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 But according to many here on Extremeskins, Davis is the greatest thing since sliced bread and is one of the best running backs in the league right now.... why wouldn't someone want him?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRMADD Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 Plenty of teams will want him. He'll be a hot prospect in free agency. The salary cap implications for the Skins are: $11.5m if we keep him under the current contract or $5.5m cap hit if we release him. Some team is gonna get a great deal for a RB with a few years and a lotta tough yards left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 teams know that we'll most likely release him and will wait for him as a FA. I hope he hold onto him way past the draft into June or something so maybe a team will jump. #1. I would rather keep him long term. That is no secret #2. If that doesn't happen, I would rather wait until the summer when a team has an RB injury and we can trade him for a 1st rounder in 2004. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyJ Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 Don't forget one other little item about Davis - he is guaranteed to get injured and have to miss games as a consequence. That's not meant as a derisive comment - it's just a statement of fact. This year, he's had ankle, knee, and shoulder problems. Teams don't want to pay big $ to players who tend to miss time due to injuries... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thito_da_skins_fan Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 Originally posted by MRMADD Some team is gonna get a great deal for a RB with a few years and a lotta tough yards left. yup and all the "Stephen Davis Sucks" idiots will be blaming the F.O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 If we trade him, the cap hit (for us) is the same as if we cut him. (The number I keep finding is $7.5 if he leaves before June. But, I may be wrong). He has a no-trade clause in his contract, so the only place we can send him to is a place he wants to go. He's scheduled to make $7.5 salary next year, and a reporting bonus of $2.5. (Total cap hit the new team takes: $10M in the first year). I think he's a great RB, but I doubt anybody's gonna offer him that much (in real money, not spread over several years cap) just in his first year, so: Any place he goes is going to have to re-negotiate a contract. (And, no other team's gonna trade for him until after he's agreed to a pay cut). Steven Davis, his agent, and this hypothetical other team all know that all they have to do is wait, the Skins will cut him, and then we all (except, perhaps, the Skins) go to auction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Murphaaay Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 Originally posted by THiTo48 yup and all the "Stephen Davis Sucks" idiots will be blaming the F.O. He does suck, but since so many people are high on him, renegotiate his contract, and trade him for a 2nd rounder, or a late 1st rounder (if anyone's that stupid). Once Davis is with another team, he will still fumble, and come up short on short yardage plays. Nobody want's a slow running back anymore, especially a soft one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thito_da_skins_fan Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 Originally posted by rellim He does suck, but since so many people are high on him, renegotiate his contract, and trade him for a 2nd rounder, or a late 1st rounder (if anyone's that stupid). Once Davis is with another team, he will still fumble, and come up short on short yardage plays. Nobody want's a slow running back anymore, especially a soft one. you have ZERO intelligence a soft RB? since we've had this discussion many times before, there's nothing else i can say... he's one of the more powerful backs in the league... watch the man play for once in your miserable "I Hate Stephen Davis" life... his feet never stop moving... his vision is tremendous... maybe, just maybe, if Washington had an O-line better than your local H.S., you'd be smart enough to realize he's a good back... you put any other RB in this offense and behind this "O-line" and guess what? you'd get the same results... it's hard to get a first down on short yardage when not only does the O-line get NO push, but it gets pushed BACK... when a 300lb DT is standing in front of your face as soon as you receive the ball, i find it hard to place blame anywhere but the fat fuks up front... learn about football and then talk to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 He does suck, but since so many people are high on him, renegotiate his contract, and trade him for a 2nd rounder, or a late 1st rounder (if anyone's that stupid).Once Davis is with another team, he will still fumble, and come up short on short yardage plays. Nobody want's a slow running back anymore, especially a soft one. What games have you been watching? Davis is probably the toughest redskin out there. There are half a dozen games where he has played effectively through injuries where other running backs would have been sitting on the bench licking their wounds. Why did he do this? because he knew he was needed. Dont pile on the critisism just for the sake of critisising, at least bring some logic or substance to the table--otherwise leave it alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 Originally posted by Storm What games have you been watching? Davis is probably the toughest redskin out there. Dont pile on the critisism just for the sake of critisising, at least bring some logic or substance to the table--otherwise leave it alone. The first part of your statement is sad... if he is one of the toughest Redskins, then they are in trouble... Part II There are plenty of people that think SD sucks now. Does that mean he did last year? no it doesn't. Davis is a back that doesn't fit in SS's offense or plans. He had a crappy year this year, regardless of how he was used. He has a history of fumbling when it hurts most. Most of the people that I hang out with and talk/watch football with don't think SD is that good. When I came here to extremeskins, I was amazed at how highly regarded he is held. Then it came to me. Most diehard Skins fans view the "probowlers" as untouchable. You can't criticize those players, you can't release them, you can't say they are no longer any good. That's just my opinion, but that's how I see it and that's a similar view that many that I know share. I don't care for Champ or LaVar either. I think they are overrated and border on non team players. There are some of you who want to throw "stupid" name calling and so on, but realize that other people think differently. I see Champ, LaVar and Davis among others as looking out for themselves first and relying on reputation and their ability rather than accepting coaching and busting their butts.... (they don't like Marvin Lewis, they can't play his defense, Marvin should change his proven formula for them.... Sorry, but if Champ is too stupid to play zone Defense and LaVar can cover a running back out of the back field with all of his supposed blazing speed, then how good are these two anyway....???) but that's just me and the people I hang with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 There are plenty of people that think SD sucks now. Does that mean he did last year? no it doesn't. Davis is a back that doesn't fit in SS's offense or plans. He had a crappy year this year, regardless of how he was used. Noone will dispute that davis has had a dissapointing year. But to label someone as soft or just say they suck based on one season when he is used sporatically is ridiculous. You have to take the player and his abilities as a whole. In the last four years that Davis has started how would you rate him as a running back. Last year he led the NFC in yards, that is significant and backs who "suck" or are "soft" generally cant do that because of the heavy competition out there. Davis has also broken the skins single season rushing record twice, again backs who "suck" or are "soft" generally are not able to achieve such things. Davis has also not missed a game in a couple of season until his injuries this year. Considering he plays running back where he gets hit or tackled many times over an average game that is commendable. Again..."soft" RBs or backs who "suck" generally dont do that. So whats wrong with this picture? Maybe "soft" and "sucks" are generalizations that dont apply to stephen Davis. Its like calling Darrell Green slow. We cant just be fair weather fans of a player, have to be objective. A fair statement would have been to say that Stephen Davis has had a bad season. Noone would argue with that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 Storm, I see what you are saying. It's basically a respect type of thing for all he has done in the past... if you put it that way.. I can deal with that. I can be a little more respectful of that. I still don't think he fits in to the future plans of the team regardless of if he has a few good years left in him. If he goes to the Eagles and has great games, fine, I won't be one of the people crying about it. That's part of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thito_da_skins_fan Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 Originally posted by codeorama The first part of your statement is sad... if he is one of the toughest Redskins, then they are in trouble... Part II There are plenty of people that think SD sucks now. Does that mean he did last year? no it doesn't. Davis is a back that doesn't fit in SS's offense or plans. He had a crappy year this year, regardless of how he was used. He has a history of fumbling when it hurts most. Most of the people that I hang out with and talk/watch football with don't think SD is that good. When I came here to extremeskins, I was amazed at how highly regarded he is held. Then it came to me. Most diehard Skins fans view the "probowlers" as untouchable. You can't criticize those players, you can't release them, you can't say they are no longer any good. That's just my opinion, but that's how I see it and that's a similar view that many that I know share. I don't care for Champ or LaVar either. I think they are overrated and border on non team players. There are some of you who want to throw "stupid" name calling and so on, but realize that other people think differently. I see Champ, LaVar and Davis among others as looking out for themselves first and relying on reputation and their ability rather than accepting coaching and busting their butts.... (they don't like Marvin Lewis, they can't play his defense, Marvin should change his proven formula for them.... Sorry, but if Champ is too stupid to play zone Defense and LaVar can cover a running back out of the back field with all of his supposed blazing speed, then how good are these two anyway....???) but that's just me and the people I hang with. lol - so let's get rid of Champ, LaVar, and Stephen, right? am i getting this correct? i am in 100% agreement with what you have said lately about cutting the players who have no heart and don't care about winning... but seriously man, you are taking it way too far... how has any of these 3 players shown they don't love the game? they play their asses out on the field week in and week out, but for some reason, you don't see it... Champ has repeatedly said it doesn't matter what system he's in -- his job is to perform... LaVar *hates* to lose and you can see it in his face... Stephen has played injured numerous times -- see Tennessee game for any doubts... don't take this the wrong way, but according to you, we should "realize that other people think differently." well, that applies to you also -- you and your friends aren't the only people with opinions... it just seems everyone who supports SD actually has valid facts to back it up with... what's really sad is how everyone is treating the man that has carried this team the last few years... does nobody believe in loyalty anymore? i'll be the first to admit he's had a bad season... does that mean he sucks? you'd be stupid, ignorant, and blind to think that... his season is the result of many things -- some beyond his control (O-line sucks, he's played through injuries constantly, doesn't get enough carries, etc etc etc...)... SD should get some blame for his part, but no more than the other 52 players on this team... give the man some respect for what he's done here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 Of course he doesnt fit in the future plans here. Our current coach does not like pounding the ball. His offense is more a finesse type involving intricate pass patterns etc.. thats fine and its the coaches perogative. I just dont think we should lose sight of the fact that Davis is still an excellent running back and just because he doesnt fit into this current offense or is having a bad year he shouldnt be labled otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 Thito, I am not calling for those two players to be released. I am just staying that I don't care for them and I know of others who feel the same way. That's all. I do however think that SS needs to have a heart to heart with them and find out if they are playing for the right reasons. I base this on comments that they have made. Arrington was very public about wanting to be the Defensive MVP. Everyone that I know was turned off by that because it is an individual award. I have played baseball in college and coach HS baseball. I don't like individuals. Champs comment about they way he carries the ball sucked too... more individual comments. that's where I'm coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thito_da_skins_fan Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 Originally posted by codeorama Thito, I am not calling for those two players to be released. I am just staying that I don't care for them and I know of others who feel the same way. That's all. I do however think that SS needs to have a heart to heart with them and find out if they are playing for the right reasons. I base this on comments that they have made. Arrington was very public about wanting to be the Defensive MVP. Everyone that I know was turned off by that because it is an individual award. I have played baseball in college and coach HS baseball. I don't like individuals. Champs comment about they way he carries the ball sucked too... more individual comments. that's where I'm coming from. you can't acknowledge the negative comments and disregard the positive ones... what did they say when they both got Pro-Bowl invitations? here, i'll help ya... "It provides a little consolation prize for what you really set out to achieve," Arrington said. "I don't really know how to feel right now. I'm glad I made it . . . but it always sits in your head that we should have had a better season. . . . I was actually preparing myself for the worst. This season has been pretty bizarre." Said Bailey: "You want to enjoy it, and I will once I go. Right now, everybody is saying congratulations. But as a team, there isn't much we can look forward to except going out and playing two games that don't mean anything as far as the playoffs." these are 2 players who are accepting a personal award, but would rather have team success... how does that show individualism? players set goals every year for themselves... Arrington wanted to de defensive MVP... if you remember, he also said that by getting that award would mean he's helping the team as much as he can to win... yes, it's an individual award, but it's resulting from team play... Champ made a stupid comment... did he make a stupid comment and continue doing it "his" way? no... in fact, after that, he started holding the ball the way he's coached... they are young and like all young players, they want attention... it's innocent and shouldn't take anything away from their play on the field... if you truly don't think Champ and LaVar play for the team and only themselves, then i don't really know what's going to convince you otherwise... everyone makes a stupid comment now and then... but we aren't talking about Randy Moss or Jeff George... if you don't care for them, fine... but don't sit there and question their heart when it's obvious they play for the team, and not themselves... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted December 20, 2002 Share Posted December 20, 2002 Thito, I don't want to get in a mud flinging contest with you, I respect you opinion.. but Arrington's quote supports my opinion more so than yours... "I was prepared for the worst".... That Arrington considers not making the probowl the worst.... that says it all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_33 Posted December 20, 2002 Author Share Posted December 20, 2002 WOW!!! I see i've created a tennis match of arguments here! I guess i will jump in and be the MEDIATOR! I myself have mixed emotions running high and low for our team! As i've always been a big fan of S.Davis and hold much respect for him since he earned the starting role over skip hicks! I think we all can agree that Davis is considered a power back. I loved the way he ran,found holes, bursted with power among other things.However;I was never happy with the fact he could not take one to the house.Yes,he was great inside the 10,but for a gamebreaker;my faith dwindled! As ive always thought for the last 4 years,that he was our biggest and most potent weapon to be counted for! I remember saying one time while playing madden with a friend of mine(as i rolled a 85 yard touchdown run against him)"man if he could only do that in real life"! Steven davis always reminded me of terry allen when he played here!Only difference being that TERRY could take to the house before all his knee injuries! As much as i hate to say it,but i think if we can't hold on to Davis by renagotiating,then we need to find a more elusive RB who can break it wide open for this offense!One who has good to great Pass catching skills,but when givin' the ball can put a scare into the defense.By having this weapon it will not only open up spurriers pass happy offense (which i've always liked anyway Monk,clark and sanders),but will add another dimension to our system. And it doesn't have to be a big name player,but just someone with speed.Specially if we stay the same route on our NOT SO FAST RECEIVERS! I would be happy with a trung canidate or something of that caliber without the fumbling! So guys,lets just get along;Have a good christmas with our wives and will see what happens with the running game cause something tells me that betts and watson are not the answer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuckinIA Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 Originally posted by codeorama Thito, I don't want to get in a mud flinging contest with you, I respect you opinion.. but Arrington's quote supports my opinion more so than yours... "I was prepared for the worst".... That Arrington considers not making the probowl the worst.... that says it all... I thought this quote was that he was prepared for the worst as far as the teams goes considering all the changes. I did not think he was talking about himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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