Holgraphic sights.

[Baculus]

I thought this was a cool sighting system:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6171484737767746207

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2632314398713230696

[Mass_SkinsFan]

They're interesting, and the US Military seems to think they're the greatest thing since the thermo-nuclear device, but they're not something I'd ever put on a firearm of my own. Just too much technology. A gun is supposed to be a fairly simple and straight-forward device. It's one of those items where KISS should be the standard. When a high-tech device like this thing or the other similar devices fails, most of these guns have no backup sight, and therefore become pretty much useless for aimed fire.

On my shotgun, I have a Ghost Ring Sight... http://www.xssights.com/store/shotgun.html I find them very easy to pick up, visually. They aim quite naturally, and I personally find it much nicer than most of the rifle sights or the pin sight that comes on most shotguns

On my handguns, I have Trijicon night sights... http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/parts_new.cfm?categoryID=7 which I think are about the best handgun sights out there. I like the trijicon ones because they have a whit ring painted around the night sight to make them more visible during the day and in other more well lit conditions.

My Sig P239, which I carry most often, also has a set of Crimson Trace Lasergrips on it... http://www.crimsontrace.com/default.asp?id=739 mostly for the psychological impact that little red dot can have on people. It still has the Trijicon sights, and those are what I normally use, and work as a backup to the laser, should it fail.

[No_Pressure]

Whats wrong with using the iron sights like I do on my Mosin, my brother's SKS, my uncle's Enfield, and my dad's garand?

Too modern for my liking...one day I hope to buy one of those nice 2,000 dollars mosin snipers but thats the farthest I will go in changing my sight.

[Slateman]

Whats wrong with using the iron sights like I do on my Mosin, my brother's SKS, my uncle's Enfield, and my dad's garand?

Too modern for my liking...one day I hope to buy one of those nice 2,000 dollars mosin snipers but thats the farthest I will go in changing my sight.

Before you go shooting those guns run a couple miles and do a hundred pushups. Now pick your gun and imagine that people are trying to shoot you, that a dozen people all around you are shooting at them, and there are explosions around you. Then talk to me about "whats wrong with iron sights"

How are these different from ACOG and red dot sights?

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Whats wrong with using the iron sights like I do on my Mosin, my brother's SKS, my uncle's Enfield, and my dad's garand?

Too modern for my liking...one day I hope to buy one of those nice 2,000 dollars mosin snipers but thats the farthest I will go in changing my sight.

Rock, strict iron sights begin to lose there effectiveness when you don't have a lot of time to concentrate on the sight, and when the lighting conditions are less than optimal. Gee, that kind of sounds like what the conditions generally are like when you're in a war zone or a self-defense situation.

Additionally, strict iron sights, at least in terms of a handgun, are not useful for every shooter. Not everyone's stance, trigger pull, grip, etc... allow for iron sights to be used at the POA (point of aim). That means many people have to "compensate" when they shoot an iron-sighted gun. Not a good thing in my personal opinion.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

How are these different from ACOG and red dot sights?

The ACOG's that I've seen and the red dot sights I'm familiar with from my former days as a target handgun shooter don't have a forward aiming point. The entire sight is encompased in side the sight tube in those cases. This one utilizes the existing front post of the rifle as a forward aiming point. Otherwise, they're pretty much the same.

[Baculus]

Well, obviously a professional should have at least basic marksmanship, but the military appears to really like these opticals. I looked at the DoD website, and at least 66,000 of these have been purchased by the military. The Marines and DEA have also ordered these sights. I can see where these sights could be very useful for fast target re-aquisition and an improvement over laser sights that have blind spots for the targetting recticle. After all, that extra second in decision making, when it comes to aiming and firing at your enemy, is a matter of life and death - these sights appear to make a difference in such decision making. I would like to hear from more military folks what they think about such a system.

Their website:

http://www.eotech-inc.com/index2.php

[Slateman]

Well, obviously a professional should have at least basic marksmanship, but the military appears to really like these opticals. I looked at the DoD website, and at least 66,000 of these have been purchased by the military. The Marines and DEA have also ordered these sights. I can see where these sights could be very useful for fast target re-aquisition and an improvement over laser sights that have blind spots for the targetting recticle. After all, that extra second in decision making, when it comes to aiming and firing at your enemy, is a matter of life and death - these sights appear to make a difference in such decision making. I would like to hear from more military folks what they think about such a system.

Their website:

http://www.eotech-inc.com/index2.php

They still teach basic marksmanship over iron sights. At least, they do in the Marines. Not sure about the lesser services

[Baculus]

They still teach basic marksmanship over iron sights. At least, they do in the Marines. Not sure about the lesser services

Oh yeah, of course - that is marksmanship 101. But, in modern warefare, having just iron sights is probably disadvantage. Being able to shoot well with just iron sights and actually needing JUST iron sights are two different subjects. :-) Especially if you can get the best of both worlds (which these sights appear to allow).

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Oh yeah, of course - that is marksmanship 101. But, in modern warefare, having just iron sights is probably disadvantage. Being able to shoot well with just iron sights and actually needing JUST iron sights are two different subjects. :-) Especially if you can get the best of both worlds (which these sights appear to allow).

If you can shoot with just iron sights, then the more advanced sights are generally very easy to pick up and use. What is severely lacking in the civilian market (all I can speak to with any great reliability) is the basics of marksmanship. Breathing control, trigger squeeze, grip, stance, sight alighment. They're all completely overlooked by the vast majority of civilian gun owners. Even those who hunt, shoot competitively, or carry for self-defense rarely have a solid basis in these concepts. With these things, the choice of sights becomes one of personal choice and preference. Without them, the high-tech sight becomes a crutch; without which the shooter may as well be blind. I have to assume that the same thing could be said of military trained shooters.

[No_Pressure]

I meant for domestic use when I was saying that. I dont care what the military wants to use but I dont understand these people who own rifles and are not in a war zone, yet they need the holographic sights...it's overkill at it's finest. You want to hunt, get a scope, you want home defense, dont change a thing this isnt a SWAT unit.

Honestly its overboard for anyone who isnt in the military to use that kind of stuff. They dont need it. I am not in a war zone. I dont see whats wrong with the sights or a scope. I get the feeling that if an intruder were to beak in, I wouldnt need to run 10 miles and do 50,000 pushups to get down the stairs and kill the ****.

[Thiebear]

I like em... As long as they don't work in optimal conditions only...

[Mass_SkinsFan]

I meant for domestic use when I was saying that. I dont care what the military wants to use but I dont understand these people who own rifles and are not in a war zone, yet they need the holographic sights...it's overkill at it's finest. You want to hunt, get a scope, you want home defense, dont change a thing this isnt a SWAT unit.

Why does anyone need a Shelby Mustang GT? or a 4500 sq. ft. house? or a 22 foot sailboat?

Different people have different interests and ways to boost their own ego. Some people buy extravagant cars or homes or boats. Some people's interests focus more on firearms. There's nothing wrong with that, so long as they're within the legal boundries of gun ownership. The same way that it's legal to own that Shelby Mustang GT that I don't think anyone NEEDS. When I had my home defense shotgun built, it cost me nearly $1500 to get it modified the way I like it. I paid over $2200 to have a custom .45ACP handgun built for the shooting sport I'm involved in. Do you have a problem with those things as well?

Honestly its overboard for anyone who isnt in the military to use that kind of stuff. They dont need it. I am not in a war zone. I dont see whats wrong with the sights or a scope. I get the feeling that if an intruder were to beak in, I wouldnt need to run 10 miles and do 50,000 pushups to get down the stairs and kill the ****.

Why is it overboard? The concept behind the Second Amendment was to ensure that the populace was as well armed as the military, as a control against the government or the military trying to illegally sieze more power than they're supposed to have under the Constitution. Or doesn't that make sense to you.

On your break-in scenario, I do have the expertise to comment. You know what happens when that late-night break-in occurs.... You get woken out of a sound sleep by the noise of a window breaking. The moment you realize it wasn't the cat knocking the vase off the dresser AGAIN, your body starts pumping adrenaline into your system like the Nitrous Oxide dispenser in a race-car engine.

Your mind is going in about ten different directions.... are the kids okay? is the gun LOADED, or does it just have a mag in it? would my wife just calm down, shut the **** up, and dial 9-1-1 for Christ's sake!?! Which window did the bad-guy likely come through?... and you're still not really AWAKE yet.

Suddenly you can't quite clearly remember exactly where all the furniture in your house is. Is that end table right around the corner at the bottom of the stairs, or is there some space between the corner and the table? Where the **** IS that light switch in the living room? By that point your mind is running around in circles while your heart is doing about 130 bpm.

Now the lingering doubt starts to creep into your mind... could I REALLY shoot another person? when WAS the last time I took this gun to the range? Should I just wait for the cops to get here?

Your John Wayne instincts win out and you decide to go find the intruder. About halfway down the upstairs hallway, after stubbing your toe at least three times on objects in the hall, you realize you've never really walked around the house in the dark with a gun before. You also realize that you've never thought about how to move through a house with a gun before. You have no idea how to move through a doorway or around a corner.

You get downstairs without having shot yourself, and finally get to the doorway of the Family Room where you think the noise came from. There's a shadow of movement along the far wall. Do you call out? Do you turn the light on? Do you fire at it?

How do you feel when you find out that "window" breaking was actually the dog knocking over the tv because somebody put his favorite toy on top of it? Did you shoot that shadowy figure, and kill your kids favorite pet?

That's the sort of thing that REALLY happens in those situations. All too many people don't ever prepare themselves for the reality of those situations. If nothing else, proper training gives armed homeowners an edge. These sights may be part of that preparation and training for certain people.