How do you think [The Cowboys will do this year]?

[Eternal_Cowboy]

Okay. Here's just how awful Terence Newman is.

Last year I charted the games along with somebody else I know and we came up with Newman allowing the following on passes that were his responsibilty.

30-70, 320 yards, 0 TD's, and 4 INT's. (Newman had 3 INT's, but he also tipped a pass against SF that wound up going in the air and being intercepted by Dat Nguyen)

According to the 2006 Pro Football Prospectus book they have Newman down for 76 passing attempts at 5.3 yards per attempt (which ranked 4th for all CB's). Furthermore, Newman ranked 5th in pass stop % of 65%.

Here's KC Joyner's assessment of Newman in 2005:

http://dallascowboyszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58550&highlight=vela+joyner

And supposedly for such an awful year that Newman had in 2004, he still finished 8th overall in CB metric according to Joyner.

Oh yeah. The CB play and Roy are so awful in coverage that somehow, someway, Dallas finished 2nd in completion percentage allowed and 9th in QB rating allowed.

Rich........

Game. Set. Match. Turn out the lights, go home to your family, and stop thinking Newman isnt an elite corner.

[Eternal_Cowboy]

I have said this before and I will say it again: Newman is GREAT at shutting down no.2 receivers.

Missed the entire point of the post and this discussion :doh:

[Skins4481]

Injuries? You had TWO injuries on offense? Wow, poor you...

Dallas had an injured Rivera, an injured Petitti?, Al Johnson who was recovering from injury, Crayton was injured, and I honestly think that Crayton is about as useful for us as Patten is for you. We lost Jones (who we can't really slap the "injury prone" tag on just yet), and you have to think about who replaced the guys who got injured.

Petitti was injured, but we had no depth at that level (but we do now), so he had to play, INJURED. That's why he sucked more than normal at the end of the season.

Rivera was injured like the day after we signed him. That's why he sucked.

Adams went down, and he got replaced by Torrin Turnstile Tucker. That's a HUGE drop. Our best OT went down, and he was replaced by our worst player.

Crayton got injured, and he was never the same after he got back from the injury.

If you notice, our offensive injuries happened to our offensive line, which, gasp, was the worst part of our team. Imagine that!

EDIT: BTW, sorry, double post.

No we had much more than just two injuries to our Offense. I'm just talking about the season ending injury. If I was going to list all the injuries like you did, James Thrash and Taylor Jacobs got injured, Clinton Portis, Mark Brunell, and Jon Jansen were injured. Jansesn played with two broken thumbs all year long. Patten was our #2, Crayton was your #3. Losing Patten meant A LOT MORE to us then you guys losing Crayton. Only a homer like you would say its equal.

[Eternal_Cowboy]

No we had much more than just two injuries to our Offense. I'm just talking about the season ending injury. If I was going to list all the injuries like you did, James Thrash and Taylor Jacobs got injured, Clinton Portis, Mark Brunell, and Jon Jansen were injured. Jansesn played with two broken thumbs all year long. Patten was our #2, Crayton was your #3. Losing Patten meant A LOT MORE to us then you guys losing Crayton. Only a homer like you would say its equal.

James Thrash and Taylor Jacobs = Garbage

Portis, Brunell, and Jansen played

Patten is about as worthwhile as a doorpost to an offense

[Skins4481]

Keenan McCardell had one catch for 16 yards against Newman. Santana Moss had one catch for 9 yards (in two games) against Newman. Brandon Lloyd didn't catch a pass against Newman. Randy Moss didn't catch a pass against Newman. Detroit's Roy Williams had three catches for 35 yards against Newman. Eddie Kennison had one catch for 22 yards. Those six guys COMBINED for six catches for 82 yards on 14 pass attempts against Newman.

Against Steve Smith, Terrell Owens, Torry Holt, Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, Rod Smith and Amani Toomer, Newman allowed a TOTAL of six catches for 84 yards on 15 attempts.

Rich...........

Theres only one problem with all this. Newman WASNT COVERING THEM FULL TIME! If Newman was so damn good, why would they not put him on no.1 receivers for The WHOLE ENTIRE GAME? BECAUSE HE SUCKS ASS NOW GET OVER IT. You can show all the bull**** stats you want but bottomline is Newman is no where near as great as you guys make him out to be.

Use your brains. He covered those 7 receivers and they had the ball thrown to them only 15 times! That is a littler over 2 per receiver!!! How stupid do you have to be to realize top notch receivers get the ball thrown to them more than TWICE A game?

Seriously, you Cowboys fans need to stop being so stupid. It is really getting annoying. :doh:

[Skins4481]

Game. Set. Match. Turn out the lights, go home to your family, and stop thinking Newman is an elite corner.

You need to take your own advice. :laugh:

:dallasuck

[Skins4481]

James Thrash and Taylor Jacobs = Garbage

Portis, Brunell, and Jansen played

Patten is about as worthwhile as a doorpost to an offense

So did your injured players.

Patten played a big role in the Patriots SB runs. I think he had a TD in every single Patriots post season game. He is definitely better than Crayton.

[Skins4481]

Missed the entire point of the post and this discussion :doh:

umm...no I didnt. Newman isnt an elite corner. Yes he did a great job at covering his man. Problem is, his man was usually the no.2 receiver of the opposite team.

:dallasuck

[IrishOrange15]

Theres only one problem with all this. Newman WASNT COVERING THEM FULL TIME! If Newman was so damn good, why would they not put him on no.1 receivers for The WHOLE ENTIRE GAME? BECAUSE HE SUCKS ASS NOW GET OVER IT. You can show all the bull**** stats you want but bottomline is Newman is no where near as great as you guys make him out to be.

No team in the NFL sticks their best CB on the best WR for the entire game. In fact, your very own Redskins only had their #1 CB on the opposing team's #1 WR for 34% of the time in 2005, which was the second lowest percentage in the league last season.

Dallas?

44%, which ranked as the 18th highest percentage.

Cowboys fans are not the only ones making Newman to be a great CB. The two other independent sources I've mentioned that chart every single DB in every game have been saying the same thing.

But, keep taking swings and whiffing.

Rich............

[Eternal_Cowboy]

So did your injured players.

Patten played a big role in the Patriots SB runs. I think he had a TD in every single Patriots post season game. He is definitely better than Crayton.

David Patten in 9 games:

22 catches

217 yards

0 TDs

Patrick Crayton in 10 games:

22 catches

341 yards

2 TDs

Yup, definitly better than Crayton

[Eternal_Cowboy]

You need to take your own advice. :laugh:

:dallasuck

Even after an edit, that's the best you could do? :laugh:

[Eternal_Cowboy]

umm...no I didnt. Newman isnt an elite corner. Yes he did a great job at covering his man. Problem is, his man was usually the no.2 receiver of the opposite team.

:dallasuck

You have been proven wrong by 3 different posters on two different threads, how long will you keep this charade up?

[CowboysForLife]

Patrick Crayton's 6 games before his injury: 18 catches, 272 yards

David Patten's 9 games before his season-ending injury: 22 catches, 217 yards

Patrick Crayton had a higher production in 6 games than Patten had in 9!

Now let's get the per game catches and yards...

Crayton: 3 catches for 45.333 yards per game

Patten: 2.444 catches for 24.111 yards per game

So Crayton had almost double Patten's amount of yardage per game...

Who's more important now?

David Patten in 9 games:

22 catches

217 yards

0 TDs

Patrick Crayton in 10 games:

22 catches

341 yards

2 TDs

Yup, definitly better than Crayton

He beat me .

[Eternal_Cowboy]

Theres only one problem with all this. Newman WASNT COVERING THEM FULL TIME! If Newman was so damn good, why would they not put him on no.1 receivers for The WHOLE ENTIRE GAME? BECAUSE HE SUCKS ASS NOW GET OVER IT. You can show all the bull**** stats you want but bottomline is Newman is no where near as great as you guys make him out to be.

Use your brains. He covered those 7 receivers and they had the ball thrown to them only 15 times! That is a littler over 2 per receiver!!! How stupid do you have to be to realize top notch receivers get the ball thrown to them more than TWICE A game?

Seriously, you Cowboys fans need to stop being so stupid. It is really getting annoying. :doh:

You are simply not very knowledgable

NO NFL team sticks their #1 corner on the #1 WR the whole game, not a single one. In fact, many put the #1 on the #2 a good part of games because it allows the to forget about one side of the field.

For instance, Keyshawn Johnson was the Cowboys #1 WR last year. Care to guess how many plays your #1 corner played him in week 2? 24, less than HALF the game.

And BTW, this quote is a fine example of someone kicing their own ass:

Use your brains. He covered those 7 receivers and they had the ball thrown to them only 15 times! That is a littler over 2 per receiver!!! How stupid do you have to be to realize top notch receivers get the ball thrown to them more than TWICE A game?

The whole point of this discussion is that Newman shut them down. You dont throw the ball to a WR who is covered. Get it yet?

[Skins4481]

No team in the NFL sticks their best CB on the best WR for the entire game. In fact, your very own Redskins only had their #1 CB on the opposing team's #1 WR for 34% of the time in 2005, which was the second lowest percentage in the league last season.

Dallas?

44%, which ranked as the 18th highest percentage.

Cowboys fans are not the only ones making Newman to be a great CB. The two other independent sources I've mentioned that chart every single DB in every game have been saying the same thing.

But, keep taking swings and whiffing.

Rich............

First of all, whenever you post up stats, provide a link. You Cowboys fans are too full of **** for me to believe anything you guys have to say.

Second, Gregg Williams has said before that we dont have #1 and #2 CBs. We have LCB and RCB. Only in Nickel packages when Springs plays the slot that changes.

[Skins4481]

David Patten in 9 games:

22 catches

217 yards

0 TDs

Patrick Crayton in 10 games:

22 catches

341 yards

2 TDs

Yup, definitly better than Crayton

Last year he was playing injured since week 2 and he did have an off year but he still is better than Crayton. Only Cowboys fans would say otherwise.

[Skins4481]

You have been proven wrong by 3 different posters on two different threads, how long will you keep this charade up?

:bsflag:

A better question: When will you stupid Cowboys fans stop trolling over here and stop the bull****?

[Eternal_Cowboy]

First of all, whenever you post up stats, provide a link. You Cowboys fans are too full of **** for me to believe anything you guys have to say.

Second, Gregg Williams has said before that we dont have #1 and #2 CBs. We have LCB and RCB. Only in Nickel packages when Springs plays the slot that changes.

So Terence Newman sucks because he shuts down #2 WRs, but Shawn Springs is great because he does the sanme thing?

:laugh:

[Eternal_Cowboy]

:bsflag:

A better question: When will you stupid Cowboys fans stop trolling over here and stop the bull****?

We are not trolling. Trolling is throwing out baseless trash talking with no substance. We are providing mounds and mounds of facts and information to back up valid opinions. You, on the other hand, are akin to a 4 year who doesnt get his way but refuses to give in and just throws a tantrum filled with illogical ranting.

Basically, you are arguing that you know more about the Cowboys than every Cowboys fan.

[Eternal_Cowboy]

Last year he was playing injured since week 2 and he did have an off year but he still is better than Crayton. Only Cowboys fans would say otherwise.

In his prime, yes

Now, not a chance

[CowboysForLife]

:bsflag:

A better question: When will you stupid Cowboys fans stop trolling over here and stop the bull****?

How are we trolling, and how is what we are saying BS? Everything we're giving you is based off of stats, and yet everything we say is BS. You have quite a bit of trouble admitting that you're wrong.

[Skins4481]

Patrick Crayton's 6 games before his injury: 18 catches, 272 yards

David Patten's 9 games before his season-ending injury: 22 catches, 217 yards

Patrick Crayton had a higher production in 6 games than Patten had in 9!

Now let's get the per game catches and yards...

Crayton: 3 catches for 45.333 yards per game

Patten: 2.444 catches for 24.111 yards per game

So Crayton had almost double Patten's amount of yardage per game...

Who's more important now?

He beat me .

Look, you're just a kid and wont understand this but stats arent everything. David Patten was the only other legitimate receiver we had at the WR position so when he went down, opposing offenses started focusing only on Moss and Cooley. At what point in the season last year we were 3rd in total offense.

[Eternal_Cowboy]

Look, you're just a kid and wont understand this but stats arent everything. David Patten was the only other legitimate receiver we had at the WR position so when he went down, opposing offenses started focusing only on Moss and Cooley. At what point in the season last year we were 3rd in total offense.

And at one point last season Dallas had the second best passing offense in football. So what?

[bubba9497]

David Patten in 9 games:

22 catches

217 yards

0 TDs

Patrick Crayton in 10 games:

22 catches

341 yards

2 TDs

Yup, definitly better than Crayton

BTW, Crayton played in 11 games

# 80 David Patten

Position: WR

Height: 5-10

Weight: 190

Born: 08/19/1974

College: Western Carolina

NFL Experience: 10

Career Stats | Game Logs: 01 02 03 04 05 | Situational Stats | Team Roster

RECEIVING

Year Team G GS No Yards Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ FD

1997 New York Giants 16 3 13 226 17.4 40 2 5 1 9

1998 New York Giants 12 0 11 119 10.8 39 1 1 0 8

1999 New York Giants 16 0 9 115 12.8 19 0 0 0 6

2000 Cleveland Browns 14 11 38 546 14.4 65 1 6 1 19

2001 New England Patriots 16 14 51 749 14.7 91 4 11 2 34

2002 New England Patriots 16 14 61 824 13.5 39 5 12 0 39

2003 New England Patriots 6 5 9 140 15.6 42 0 3 1 6

2004 New England Patriots 16 11 44 800 18.2 48 7 15 4 37

2005 Washington Redskins 9 7 22 217 9.9 32 0 2 0 10

TOTAL 121 65 258 3736 14.5 91 20 55 9 168

# 84 Patrick Crayton

Position: WR

Height: 6-0

Weight: 205

Born: 04/07/1979

College: Northwestern Oklahoma State

NFL Experience: 3

Career Stats | Game Logs: 01 02 03 04 05 | Situational Stats | Team Roster

RECEIVING

Year Team G GS No Yards Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ FD

2004 Dallas Cowboys 8 0 12 162 13.5 39 1 2 0 7

2005 Dallas Cowboys 11 0 22 341 15.5 63 2 6 1 15

TOTAL 19 0 34 503 14.8 63 3 8 1 22

if you want to compare you need more info than stats from 1 year in which one of the players was injured

[CowboysForLife]

Look, you're just a kid and wont understand this but stats arent everything. David Patten was the only other legitimate receiver we had at the WR position so when he went down, opposing offenses started focusing only on Moss and Cooley. At what point in the season last year we were 3rd in total offense.

And if you had Crayton instead of Patten, Crayton would take some of that pressure off of Moss and Cooley, especially if he's the #2 for you guys.

So you're using the "kid" technique, along with the "stats aren't everything" sidestep? Yet, when they go in your favor, you guys whip out the "stats don't lie" jab.

David Patten was YOUR #3 target at least. He didn't do anything. Crayton was our #4 (Witten), and he still produced more. Patten had a better opportunity, but did less. Do you understand what I'm saying, or do you not understand "kid" talk?

EDIT:

Bubba, at this point in their careers, who would you rather have, Crayton or Patten? I'll trust you to answer honestly.