What does "Cash over Cap" Mean?

[Westbrook36]

Yes. I know you were in error. That was the purpose of my post to call your attention to it.

Now that we have his error out of the way, I'm surprised there is no comment from you regarding the 01-04 numbers which show the Eagles outspent the Redskins. Interesting, right Arthur?

[twenty-eight]

I'm going to try to give as simple an explanation as possible.

Remember when the Skins signed Deon, Bruce, Carrier, JGeorge, etc.?

The following numbers are made up, but should explain this very well.

Cap that year: 75 million

money the Redskins litterally paid to players on the team that season: 125 million

Thats as simple as it gets:applause:

[Art]

Now that we have his error out of the way, I'm surprised there is no comment from you regarding the 01-04 numbers which show the Eagles outspent the Redskins. Interesting, right Arthur?

Uh, no, not interesting at all. The Redskins outspent the Eagles by $50 million in 2000. In 2001, Marty fairly dumbly though with some merit, decided not to spend money at all, leaving $30 million in budget on the table when he could have signed people with it. That was his call and he chose to be cheap in an effort to alter how things were done here. That's fine, we acknowledge his efforts and unwillingness to spend.

While I certainly enjoying watching you boys cherry pick your time windows, it's impossible to pick 2001-2004 when you know as well as the rest of us the cash over cap cycle causes a big year followed by a smaller year by nature, meaning you HAVE to include 2000 where we spent $50 million more than you. We were still flexing from Marty's cap changes in 2002.

The problem Eagle fans have is they won't admit the obvious. They have an owner unwilling to pay critical, key, team leaders when they are due the money. This is why you guys can never get over the hump because you are constantly forced to backfill. I KNOW why the Redskins haven't gotten over teh hump, or, heck, all that far up the hump for the most part. You can't admit the reasons your team hasn't gotten there.

It's because you are constantly drafting guys to back fill for Pro Bowlers you aren't going to retain. If you would actually draft guys to fill weakness while retaining Pro Bowlers, you'd probably have already won a Super Bowl or two. And, you wouldn't have had to try a Dan Snyder like one year with Kearse and Owens. But, you knew that.

[Pocono]

Uh, no, not interesting at all. The Redskins outspent the Eagles by $50 million in 2000. In 2001, Marty fairly dumbly though with some merit, decided not to spend money at all, leaving $30 million in budget on the table when he could have signed people with it. That was his call and he chose to be cheap in an effort to alter how things were done here. That's fine, we acknowledge his efforts and unwillingness to spend.

While I certainly enjoying watching you boys cherry pick your time windows, it's impossible to pick 2001-2004 when you know as well as the rest of us the cash over cap cycle causes a big year followed by a smaller year by nature, meaning you HAVE to include 2000 where we spent $50 million more than you. We were still flexing from Marty's cap changes in 2002.

The problem Eagle fans have is they won't admit the obvious. They have an owner unwilling to pay critical, key, team leaders when they are due the money. This is why you guys can never get over the hump because you are constantly forced to backfill. I KNOW why the Redskins haven't gotten over teh hump, or, heck, all that far up the hump for the most part. You can't admit the reasons your team hasn't gotten there.

It's because you are constantly drafting guys to back fill for Pro Bowlers you aren't going to retain. If you would actually draft guys to fill weakness while retaining Pro Bowlers, you'd probably have already won a Super Bowl or two. And, you wouldn't have had to try a Dan Snyder like one year with Kearse and Owens. But, you knew that.

Art...Do you have any proof of your assertion that the Skins outspent the Eagles by 50M in 2000? I ask because in 2000 the Eagles signed the 6th pick in the draft and signed Jon Runyan for 9.5M of bonus money and he was considered to be the top FA available that year and they signed future Pro Bowlers Tra Thomas Chad Lewis and Jermaine Mayberry to contract extensions and also signed Carlos Emmons and extended Hollis Thomas.

http://home.comcast.net/~tdgryn/eaglessb.html

I know the Skins had two monster signings in Samuels and Arrington that year for about 22M combined but the Eagles gave out about 35M of bonuses themselves.In order for the Skins to outspend the Eagles by 50M they would have had to written about 70M more in signing bonuses above the ones for Samuels and Arrington. Please provide some proof to back up your assertion or was this a made up figure?

2000:

Tra Thomas (extend): $8,000,000 (6 yrs)

Jon Runyan: $6,000,000 signing bonus + $3,500,000 roster bonus (6 yrs)

Corey Simon (1st round): $6,200,000 (4 yrs; $1,000,000 bonus due if 5th yr invoked)

Hollis Thomas (extend): $2,100,000 (5 yrs)

Carlos Emmons: $2,000,000 (4 yrs)

Jermane Mayberry (extend): $1,800,000 (4 yrs)

Todd Pinkston (2nd round): $1,300,000 (5 yrs)

Chad Lewis (extend): $1,000,000 (4 yrs)

Bobby Williams (2nd round): $850,000 (4 yrs)

Stanley Pritchett: $800,000 (4 yrs)

Koy Detmer (extend): $500,000 est. (3 yrs)

Gari Scott (4th round): $300,000 (3 yrs)

Thomas Hamner (6th round): $68,000 (3 yrs)

John Frank (6th round): $63,000 (3 yrs)

John Romero (6th round): $50,000 (3 yrs)

Brian Mitchell: unknown (2 yrs)

Eugene Chung: unknown (2 yrs)

Alex Van Dyke: unknown (2 yrs)

Chris Warren: unknown (1 yr)

[portis&taylor]

It means what we are idk i am guessing it means over the cap.

[Westbrook36]

Uh, no, not interesting at all. The Redskins outspent the Eagles by $50 million in 2000. In 2001, Marty fairly dumbly though with some merit, decided not to spend money at all, leaving $30 million in budget on the table when he could have signed people with it. That was his call and he chose to be cheap in an effort to alter how things were done here. That's fine, we acknowledge his efforts and unwillingness to spend.

While I certainly enjoying watching you boys cherry pick your time windows, it's impossible to pick 2001-2004 when you know as well as the rest of us the cash over cap cycle causes a big year followed by a smaller year by nature, meaning you HAVE to include 2000 where we spent $50 million more than you. We were still flexing from Marty's cap changes in 2002.

The problem Eagle fans have is they won't admit the obvious. They have an owner unwilling to pay critical, key, team leaders when they are due the money. This is why you guys can never get over the hump because you are constantly forced to backfill. I KNOW why the Redskins haven't gotten over teh hump, or, heck, all that far up the hump for the most part. You can't admit the reasons your team hasn't gotten there.

It's because you are constantly drafting guys to back fill for Pro Bowlers you aren't going to retain. If you would actually draft guys to fill weakness while retaining Pro Bowlers, you'd probably have already won a Super Bowl or two. And, you wouldn't have had to try a Dan Snyder like one year with Kearse and Owens. But, you knew that.

So you concede the Eagles outspent the Skins over a four year period. Thank you, and goodnight.

[Westbrook36]

Art...Do you have any proof of your assertion that the Skins outspent the Eagles by 50M in 2000? I ask because in 2000 the Eagles signed the 6th pick in the draft and signed Jon Runyan for 9.5M of bonus money and he was considered to be the top FA available that year and they signed future Pro Bowlers Tra Thomas Chad Lewis and Jermaine Mayberry to contract extensions and also signed Carlos Emmons and extended Hollis Thomas.

http://home.comcast.net/~tdgryn/eaglessb.html

I know the Skins had two monster signings in Samuels and Arrington that year for about 22M combined but the Eagles gave out about 35M of bonuses themselves.In order for the Skins to outspend the Eagles by 50M they would have had to written about 70M more in signing bonuses above the ones for Samuels and Arrington. Please provide some proof to back up your assertion or was this a made up figure?

2000:

Tra Thomas (extend): $8,000,000 (6 yrs)

Jon Runyan: $6,000,000 signing bonus + $3,500,000 roster bonus (6 yrs)

Corey Simon (1st round): $6,200,000 (4 yrs; $1,000,000 bonus due if 5th yr invoked)

Hollis Thomas (extend): $2,100,000 (5 yrs)

Carlos Emmons: $2,000,000 (4 yrs)

Jermane Mayberry (extend): $1,800,000 (4 yrs)

Todd Pinkston (2nd round): $1,300,000 (5 yrs)

Chad Lewis (extend): $1,000,000 (4 yrs)

Bobby Williams (2nd round): $850,000 (4 yrs)

Stanley Pritchett: $800,000 (4 yrs)

Koy Detmer (extend): $500,000 est. (3 yrs)

Gari Scott (4th round): $300,000 (3 yrs)

Thomas Hamner (6th round): $68,000 (3 yrs)

John Frank (6th round): $63,000 (3 yrs)

John Romero (6th round): $50,000 (3 yrs)

Brian Mitchell: unknown (2 yrs)

Eugene Chung: unknown (2 yrs)

Alex Van Dyke: unknown (2 yrs)

Chris Warren: unknown (1 yr)

Pocono, you have been a member of this board long enough to know that when you start talking FACTUAL NUMBERS, and leave generalities and bravado at the door, Art simply cannot keep up and will leave the conversation.

He'll come back here (maybe) tell us that we are wrong, we know why we are wrong (or maybe we aren't smart enough to know why we are wrong?) and that he isn't going to waste his time informing us on how wrong we are.

Art never breaks things down for people to understand. He never talks actual numbers. He just throws out ridiculous comments like "outspent the Eagles by 50m in 2000" which he knows is incorrect but he also knows he can get away with, because, well, he is Art.

[Mania]

The following is a major issue in the CBA negotiations is how the league counts player bonuses over the life of a contract. It's a term that both sides commonly refer to as "cash over cap."

The Redskins employ a cap strategy whereby they sign players to big-contracts with high bonuses and low salaries. This strategy, made possible by the team's high revenue stream, allows the team to annually entice multiple free agents with big bonuses. Moreover, the strategy allows the Redskins to be particularly creative when restructuring players' deals; it pays players big money immediately, but allows the cap hit to be spread out over several seasons.

This cap strategy arguably gives the Redskins a competitive advantage over lower-revenue teams that cannot afford to pay such large bonuses. Accordingly, lower-revenue clubs may begin to do battle with the Dan Snyders and Jerry Joneses over more than just revenue sharing proposals.

Mort believes that if this issue can be resolved between the owners, an extension to the CBA will be reached.