Arab World "ENOUGH!!, Enough!"

[rdsknbill]

This was an interesting read.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/08/london.muslims/index.html

(CNN) -- Arabs and Muslims in Britain and across the world expressed outrage at the terrorist attacks in London, with the dominant viewpoint summed up by one person who wrote on a Web site, "Enough ... enough."

The loud condemnation of the attacks that targeted civilians reverberated on the street, over the Internet, in newsrooms, and in Arab and Muslim seats of power.

Minority voices praised the attacks with anti-Western invective, but they were largely drowned out. On one popular Web site, one person wrote: "How can you gloat and thank God for terrorist acts that were committed in the name of God???? Shaaaaaaaaaaaame on you Muslims.

"Don't you know that Islam is growing in Europe??? What the heck are you doing mingling things up??? What you're doing has no logic and certainly doesn't fall under the good wisdom God has asked us to follow."

Still, some stated anger at what they say are brutal U.S. and British policies targeting Arabs and Muslims. And many expressed fears that a stretch of bad times is in store for Arabs and Muslims.

The London terror strikes, targeting three subway stations and a double-decker bus, killed more than 50 people wounded hundreds. Authorities are looking into the possibility of al Qaeda's involvement. London Police Commissioner Ian Blair said the attacks showed the "hallmarks of al Qaeda."

The September 11, 2001 al Qaeda attacks in the United States sparked some anger at Arabs and Muslims,

which U.S. leaders and others worked to quickly counteract.

Officials from countries like Iraq and Iran issued condemnations of the strikes.

Some prominent Arab writers said the attacks were a reminder that efforts to fight terrorism were necessary.

Jihad al-Khazen, an op-ed columnist for the London-based pan-Arab Al-Hayat newspaper, wrote: "Such criminal terror acts prove that no measure is enough to fight terrorism.

"Actions that governments take to fight terrorism are totally justified because protecting life is a lot more important than protecting civil liberties."

He said he was saddened "that there are people in our Arab world that continue to sympathize with terrorism."

"This is our sick reality and it doesn't help anyone to pretend this mentality doesn't exist. One can't ignore the fact that Arab governments didn't act early on to crush the extreme movements growing in our midst."

He criticized the United States and Britain, saying he hoped they would change policies that fostered "hatred around the world and make it easy for groups like al Qaeda to recruit and execute terror attacks."

On the Arabic-language TV network Al Jazeera, Mohammed Amara -- identified as an Islamist thinker in Cairo -- said "those who want to perform jihad (Muslim holy war) should go and fight the occupiers in the battlefield and not kill unexpecting innocent people.

"We (Muslims) do not kill clerics, we do not kill women, we do not kill children, we do not kill trees. This is what the prophet taught us. The U.S. and Britain are committing atrocities against our people everywhere but we shouldn't respond to a crime with a crime."

TV network Al-Arabiya, on its Web site, solicited readers' responses to the attacks. Several expressed happiness, with comments such as "Allahu Akbar, thanks be to God," "More power to al Qaeda leader Osama (bin Laden)," and "What did you expect? This is only a response to the what the British government has done to the group regardless of which group it is."

In response, these notes were posted: "To the heroes of Arabism and Jihad, since you are sparing no method to attack the West and you gloat as you try to kill the largest number of civilians. How would you like it if the West relieves itself of your headache by hitting you with one of its nuclear weapons. It takes only minutes and then there will be no heroes, no men and no shish kebab."

Another wrote: "Why you are so happy about something like this?" What if one of your family members in London died? Even in a war, don't kill women, children, old people ... please Muslims think before you judge any action, and think about your actions and judge yourself before you judge people."

There were similar responses to another posting, in which someone said: "What happened to them is less than what they deserve" because of all of the people killed in the Muslim world daily. "I hope they will get more and more every day," this writer said.

Writers punched back, saying there was no excuse for such attacks. Responses included:

# "Those terrorists have ruined the reputation of Arabs in Europe" and have hurt the religion.

# "Arabs will be facing more harassment now. That's why Arabs should stand together against these terrorist groups which has only one goal of killing innocent women, elderly and children."

# "We are entering a difficult times in Europe, especially difficult for our brothers who live in dignity and prosperity in Europe while they enjoy the vastness of the continent after they escaped their governments' dictatorships."

# "One of the targeted areas today is Edgware road, which is entirely accommodated by Muslims and Arabs. Do you know that no politicians, army troops, or any important governmental employees use the underground or buses, because simply they have no much more money to use a private car.

# "This is not Islam. Aldgate station is a two-minute walk from the largest Muslim community in London. So please don't be happy."

One writer said "innocent people have been attacked while going about their daily routine... Londoners are the most hard working and efficient city folk I have ever seen, and they shall overcome these awful events and prevail. Blair has a lot of explanation to be done. I am an Arab, and rest assured that we are all shocked and angry.

"We love London!"

[SkinsHokieFan]

Good read

More and more in the past year I have been hearing this type of talk from people, now I am hoping for more concrete action (whatever it may be)

[Chief skin]

IRAN condemned the attacks what a crock of crap that is, Those B@stards probably had some kind of involvement in it .

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Originally posted by Chief skin

IRAN condemned the attacks what a crock of crap that is, Those B@stards probably had some kind of involvement in it .

We're dealing with cowards so they very well may have had involvement. However, publicly they'll come out and condemn the attacks because they know they can't stand toe-to-toe with us.

[smsmith40]

CS

IRAN condemned the attacks what a crock of crap that is, Those B@stards probably had some kind of involvement in it .

Clearly CS you will want to share your deep insights into this subject. I'm sure you have some source or logical basis for your conclusions.

I know that somebody like you wouldn't post unsubstantiated, baseless opinions on this board.

I urge you to keep us, and the metropolitan police, MI5 and the British Government fully informed.

[Ghost of]

Still, some stated anger at what they say are brutal U.S. and British policies targeting Arabs and Muslims. And many expressed fears that a stretch of bad times is in store for Arabs and Muslims.

You know, even BEFORE Desert Storm you heard this BS. They completely and utterly ignore the times Muslims have been helped or saved by the West and seemingly invent oppression committed against them.

"This is not Islam. Aldgate station is a two-minute walk from the largest Muslim community in London. So please don't be happy."

Just like in Saudi Arabia and in Iraq, many didn't start caring until Muslims were killed. As if it THEN became the wrong thing to do.

He criticized the United States and Britain, saying he hoped they would change policies that fostered "hatred around the world and make it easy for groups like al Qaeda to recruit and execute terror attacks."

Translation:

Help us kill the Jews in Israel. Help us murder the Hindus.

"those who want to perform jihad (Muslim holy war) should go and fight the occupiers in the battlefield and not kill unexpecting innocent people.

While I agree that this would be MORE legitimate, killing American troops is really only an outgrowth of typical Arab racism and jihadism. There's no sense of justice or right with many of these people. Only about their race/tribe/religion and it doesn't matter if their co-religionists are actually in the RIGHT on a particular matter or are submerged in a culture of hate (see the 'Palestinians', or see Mein Kampf being sold out in the open in the Muslim world)

Several expressed happiness, with comments such as "Allahu Akbar, thanks be to God," "More power to al Qaeda leader Osama (bin Laden)," and "What did you expect? This is only a response to the what the British government has done to the group regardless of which group it is."

Of course. Let's be honest here. There are far more sympathizers with violence against non-Muslims than is let on. Most are not active participants in any way, but the terrorism continues because there IS a base of support in the ummah.

Even when there are condemnations, how many are negated by selfish worries about how Muslims will be 'profiled' or 'discriminated' against rather than full-out hatred and attacks on the extremists? How many condemnations are then qualified with some blather about policies on Israel(who is the side in that conflict with propaganda that matches Hitler's anti-Semitism and is reaching out to terrorist groups?)

Always the victim, never responsible. Be it Nigeria, Philippines, Sudan, Kashmir(legitimate or not, cutting off heads of family members is NOT a legit act,) Israel, Algeria...I so often hear excuses instead of UNQUALIFIED rebukes and renunciation of sympathies as there should be.

[Ghost of]

Originally posted by smsmith40

CS

Clearly CS you will want to share your deep insights into this subject. I'm sure you have some source or logical basis for your conclusions.

I know that somebody like you wouldn't post unsubstantiated, baseless opinions on this board.

I urge you to keep us, and the metropolitan police, MI5 and the British Government fully informed.

You've shown an awful lot of concern for what other posters have written, rather than show much concern about actual terrorists. You don't seem very tolerant of people either venting or of misspeaking on some point even if they're on your side.

It doesn't cast you in the most sympathetic light.

And "probably" pretty much paints it as unsubstantiated. The entire post was emotional and that was obvious. That you felt the need to insert yourself and your 'badge' as a Brit says something about you more than Chief Skin's one line post.

[smsmith40]

Help us kill the Jews in Israel. Help us murder the Hindus.

That's your translation nobody elses.

p.s If somebody in the Arab world wanted to buy a copy of Mein Kampf openly or otherwise maybe the should just go to amazon like the rest of us.

Mein Kampf

[Ghost of]

Originally posted by smsmith40

That's your translation nobody elses.

p.s If somebody in the Arab world wanted to buy a copy of Mein Kampf openly or otherwise maybe the should just go to amazon like the rest of us.

Mein Kampf

It's the translation because the EFFECTIVE result of 'changing policy' on Israel or Jammu Kashmir IS that.

As for Mein Kampf, you are aware it's the best seller in the Middle East. Granted, the numbers are a lot lower than the best sellers in the States or UK, but that's what I was talking about.

Again, you're a fool who would rather attack posters to enforce your PC orthodoxy than actually investigate or debate or critique cultures, subcultures or people who might warrant it.

I'm done with you and your sad posts.

[redman]

Originally posted by smsmith40

CS

Clearly CS you will want to share your deep insights into this subject. I'm sure you have some source or logical basis for your conclusions.

I know that somebody like you wouldn't post unsubstantiated, baseless opinions on this board.

I urge you to keep us, and the metropolitan police, MI5 and the British Government fully informed.

So the Iranians do not support terror? You might want to dislodge your head from your arse and educate yourself on the topic before you go espousing such a silly opinion.

Here's merely one example of information on that subject.

[smsmith40]

You don't seem very tolerant of people either venting or of misspeaking on some point even if they're on your side.

Ghost

You're right,

I'm not very tolerant of people venting, unsubstantiated rubbish that just inflames a complicated and emotional situation.

In a response to an article that tried to debunk some common mis-conceptions, perhaps in order to avert additional violence and retribution CS weighed in with exactly the opposite reaction.

Frankly I thought we had a discussion a few months ago where we came to a common understanding and respect for our differing opinions. Obviously not.

If the scum that committed this crime were hanging around I'd be venting at them but they're not.

[smsmith40]

So the Iranians do not support terror? You might want to dislodge your head from your arse and educate yourself on the topic before you go espousing such a silly opinion.

That's not what he said and its not what I said.

Actually the early wisdom of the talking heads are that this was the work of a Sunni extremist network. Unlikely to be Iranian backed

[smsmith40]

I'm done with you and your sad posts.

I can only hope

[Sarge]

Originally posted by smsmith40

That's not what he said and its not what I said.

Actually the early wisdom of the talking heads are that this was the work of a Sunni extremist network. Unlikely to be Iranian backed

Google only has 205,000 hits for "Iran" "Terror" and "Sponsor"

[Baculus]

You know, even BEFORE Desert Storm you heard this BS. They completely and utterly ignore the times Muslims have been helped or saved by the West and seemingly invent oppression committed against them.

They don't have to invent them. We can start with the partitioning and slicing-up of region by the British. Or the support of dictators, such as the Shah of Iran or Saddam Hussein, by the U.S. The CIA has been all over this region, proping up dictators or taking them down as it suits them. Much of this was during the Cold War and a silent war that was being waged for control of the region and its resources. You can be sure that some of the people in the region remember this.

Keep in mind, I often get annoyed when people in the ME region seem to forget about their own homegrown dictators, or the conservative, oppressive mullah governments, but we don't exactly have a clean record, nor do the British, in the region.

When I was reading the BBC, it was obvious that muslims were injured in this attack. Perhaps the bombings will not have the desired effect and may turn rational muslims even further from violent extremism. And perhaps they will rethink the value of their own governments and talk about change.