BrentMeisterGeneral

3 hours ago, RWJ said:

Just the messenger:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Stuff like this doesn’t help those that try and defend a potential Quinn hire.

Whether they want to admit it or not everything you hear about Quinn, we all heard 4 years ago about Ron Rivera:

- Great leader

- Sets the culture

- Old school intensity

- Experienced, he got to a Super Bowl don’t you

know

- The players love playing for him

The only thing that I’ve seen that separates Quinn is that he waves his arms around on the sideline.

I’m not even annoyed I just want genuine evidence that Dan Quinn is anything other than a .500 mediocre HC ie not Ron Rivera.

I’ve never seen a sports franchise be so fixated on Culture rather than actually winning things it’s hilarious.

4 minutes ago, Stoox said:

 

Yes, of course. My point is that what fans think doesn't matter, because the vast majority base their opinions on incomplete information taken from media reports (aka, a big game of agenda-driven telephone), insider opinion and social media drivel. And not actual and tangible information generated by a real hiring process, complete with background checks, data-driven analysis of past performance across multiple roles, interviews with past peers, and the interviews themselves. 

 

And yet his record is still 43 - 42 …

You can sprinkle sugar on ****, it ain’t gonna make it taste nice

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Becuse people aren't defined by their record alone.  And its not exactly a train wreck either.  2 winning records.  3 medocre records. And a SB appearance.  and a bad start to his last season.  Not exactly a disaster.   He did this with the mighty Falcons an NFL powehouse 

 

Pete Carroll was a 500 coach with NE-Jets.  2nd stint he was great.   Quinn did better than Carrol did in his first stint.   

 

I am a Yankee fan and when they hired Torre, yawn, his W-L record was nothing to be excited about. 

 

It would be one thing is this fan base echoes the league.  Everyone else thought Quinn was a mediocre joke.  But its been the opposite of that.  I recognized this for weeks even when campaigning AGAINST Quinn.

 

But I don't think Bob Myers, Peters, etc are dummies.  So if they hire Quinn maybe the players and people who actually know Quinn are right and all us people who don't know Quinn are wrong.  It's possible isn't it? 

 

Ahh I get the whole SB run thing, but man 43 - 42 it’s hard to get excited about. It does reach a point where you are your record, I’ll concede perhaps we aren’t there with Quinn yet, but I’m not sure him heading up our rebuild is the platform for us to find out and for every Quinn there’s a McDaniels.

It’s definitely possible, highly unlikely imo, but possible. Believe me if Quinn is hired here, I would love absolutely nothing more than to be wrong, I want it to be the thing I’m most wrong about ever 😆

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

But its all a perception game.

 

Some here are touting Weaver.  Finlay on air is talking about he's a fresh exciting choice.  And look maybe he is.  Or I can turn the argument on Weaver and say look he was a d coordinator for just one season, the team was dead last in points allowed and he hasn't gotten another D coordonator job again yet people think he will be a killer head coach?

 

Stack that against this...Yet Weaver is more exciting because he's new.  And look both dudes touted as leaders of men.  I'd back either choice.  

 

Dallas' defense jumped from 28th in points allowed in 2020 to seventh in 2021, Quinn's first year as coordinator. The Cowboys led the league in interceptions that season and enjoyed All-Pro seasons out of rookie linebacker Micah Parsons and cornerback Trevon Diggs.

The Cowboys were fifth in the 2022 and 2023 regular seasons in points allowed under Quinn. Parsons, Diggs, and fellow Pro Bowlers DeMarcus Lawrence and DaRon Bland have kept the Cowboys as one of the best units in the league with a fast, aggressive style of defense.

Top playoff defenses:Ranking the top 10 defenses in the NFL playoffs heading into wild card weekend

Since Quinn took over the defense, the Cowboys rank fifth in points per game allowed and first in takeaways (93). This season the Cowboys are one of the best pass defenses in the league, ranking top-10 in yards allowed (fifth), touchdowns (10th), and interceptions (eighth). He's well-respected by players and was ranked third among defensive coordinators by the NFL Players' Association.

Given his recent success against NFL offenses and the development of multiple defensive players, it's no surprise Quinn's in the mix for another head coaching job.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2024/01/10/dan-quinn-coach-candidate-pete-carroll-news/72179647007/

 

 

 

I hear you, I really do. But if we’re saying Quinn is the know quantity here and that’s a reason to hire him, well we know that Quinn was a .500 HC, so why would anyone want to hire that if that’s the known? In that scenario people would prefer the unknown because there’s potential for it to have higher upside. 
 

I’ve noticed folk are rightly quick to point to the leadership quotes by Adam Peters, but didn’t Harris himself say he can easily get us back to middle of the road obscurity but that’s not how he wants to build this? Hiring one of, if not the most .500 HC in recent times is just plain odd.

I do respect those that are ok with Quinn, but I honestly just can’t wrap my head around playing it that safe it’s bizarre to me.

2 minutes ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

Or they have yet to be blown away by any of the interviewed candidates....

It this is the case, then we need a period of calm as an organisation, the last thing we should do right now is double down and offer a long term deal to somebody we’re not convinced by, then we’re in disaster territory.

1 minute ago, Stoox said:

 

But if Peters likes the candidate, that's all that matters. 

That still doesn’t necessarily mean I think that candidate is going to be successful if hired.

Thats why the two things can be true. 

Do we have any further interviews lined up? If not then surely if they wanted Quinn they’d have already pulled the trigger by now?!

3 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Backbreaker, I think he’s gonna be a really great HC in the league for a long time.

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Tough though to say you trust Peters if that's your take IMO.

 

Peters has spent a zillion hours more on Quinn than we have.  He's actually talking to him for hours one on one.  We aren't.  He's hearing his plan to improve the team.  We arent.   He knows people who worked with Quinn directly.  We don't.

 

So if Peters with so much more information than we do and is the professional and we aren't...yet we think we have a better handle on the situation than how good do we really think Peters is at their job?

 

I am not saying we can't have takes.  I have a take too.  I want Macdonald.  But that's more about his profile.  I don't know MacDonald personally.  I haven't heard his plan to improve the team.  I haven't personally talked to people who worked with him.

 

I get this dynamic sometimes in my business where some of my colleagues have reputations with others who speak to me about it in the context of jobs.  And I am sometimes able to clarify to them about these people because I know some of these people really well where their reputations-word of mouth is off the mark from my point of view.

 

In Quinn's case the word of mouth is mostly great stuff.  So from a fan basis.  Quinn I think is working against type.  For Presidents the next President often is someone who goes against type of the previous one because people are ready for a change.  I get it I typically feel that way too about the coaches.  And Quinn is working against the parallels of Rivera.    

 

He's not who I want profile wise but if that's who they hire I am not going to assume Peters made a mistake.

I know what you mean SIP, but this is just one facet of Peters’ role. Just because I might think he gets this one thing wrong by hiring Quinn doesn’t mean I don’t think he’ll be great at other things and ultimately a great GM.

Perfectly put in the parallels to Rivera, but honestly for all the things he may have in common with Rivera none of it is the reason I wouldn’t want him here.

My big problem is his productivity as a HC, nearly 100 games is a truly great sample size and it’s so underwhelming. I’ll add to that, that leadership aside I’m still yet to read or hear a truly compelling argument that Quinn can rebuild this franchise to compete, that unnerves me greatly.

8 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

"The only thing so far that I’m a little disappointed about is that they’ve not brought in Vrabel for an interview, "

 

Absolutely no idea if it's true or not and I can't recall the exact source, but I either heard or read somewhere that Vrabel wants final say on coaching hires, personnel, and roster, which essentially would make his acquisition another coach centric reign of (t)error.

 

Can't see Harris and Peters being comfortable with that.

In which case, that puts the Vrabel stuff to bed if true. Would be suicide to immediately undermine Peters position.

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Not really sure this is the right attitude to have, I think two things can be true here. You can

1. Be excited about Adam Peters future with this organisation

2. Think he’s making a mistake by hiring a candidate you don’t particularly like

Titans - Brian Callahan

Pats - Jerod Mayo

Chargers - Jim Harbaugh

Raiders - Antonio Pierce

Panthers - Dave Canales

Falcons - Raheem Morris

In fairness to Harris / Peters I can’t say there’s anyone there we whiffed on by not going for. Not much you can do about Johnson as it wasn’t really an option.

The only thing so far that I’m a little disappointed about is that they’ve not brought in Vrabel for an interview, but perhaps they reached out and he wasn’t interested.

Just now, Warhead36 said:

You don't hire a HC to a one year deal. That's absurd.

Nah I’m just exaggerating my distain for a potential Quinn hire.

Bring in Macdonald, Weaver or Vrabel and let’s get this thing moving.

Honestly if the options are hire Dan Quinn and draft a QB and trust the process for a few years 

or 

Hire Eric Bienemy to a one year deal, trade back from 2 for a host of future picks and pick high again next year.

I can’t say I’d rule out the latter, even those who advocate for Quinn haven’t managed to provide a well reasoned case for handing him the keys it’s actually absurd.

Preference at this stage is to hire one of Macdonald, Weaver or Vrabel mind.

3 minutes ago, Commander202 said:

Like I said again and again, I’m personally not a big fan of Dan Quinn. But his defense was pretty solid in Dallas and that’s something I’m looking forward to hoping he can bring that here . 

Not a slant at you 202, but I just see this as a measure of how battered and bruised this fan base is after 30 years of depression all we're hoping for heading into our new era is hoping the new guy can make a pretty good defence.

@Conn That is excellently put 🫡

37 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

But third? Based on what? They had a lot of those same horses three years ago and their defense was hot garbage. "They have a lot of horses" is still wildly arbitrary.

 

I am not thrilled with Quinn, but I am not dismissing him entirely like a 2nd Rivera, but a lot of coaches come in and are more successful in their second stint. 

They have a generational talent in Micah Parsons, I'd consider Diggs, Gilmore, Lawrence studs + good players in Hooker, Vanderesch (injuries permitting).

You do know as well as I do that expectations of the Dallas D was high based on their personnel, I'd say Quinn lead them to maybe meeting expectation, certainly not a bad DC by any stretch.

But can you tell me outside of we hear he may be liked by his players and is potentially a good leader why this organisation should put him at the helm to perform a rebuild? Because Ron was liked by players and from what I gather is actually a good leader, it just isn't enough in isolation.

I mean you persistently mention the word arbitrary and then throw out something like 'lots of coaches come in and are more successful in their second stint', but we know full well that lot's also fail so we can dance the dance, but I still see no other forthcoming reasons to support a Dan Quinn hire here.

25 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

All the talent is on the offense.  They got Hutchinson, but Okudah didn't work out and there's not much else. 

I'd say that's quite accurate, but I still don't think he's really over performing his role by taking his D unit to 19th overall. Certainly not enough to be considered a great hire here.

Just now, Riggo#44 said:

This seems wildly arbitrary.

It's not really though is it, you and I both know Dallas has studs on the D side of the ball and that expectations were high coming into the season.

While I don't wish to completely disregard Quinn as a coach, he clearly does have good attributes and can point to certain successes and I'd fully accept and give him credit where it's due.

But the facts remain, he's a .500 HC and that was with an established QB in Matt Ryan, and I'd say he's probably met expectations of that defence in Dallas which has studs on it. Hiring him to a position with no established QB 1, minimal defensive talent and tasking him with rebuilding the franchise because he's a 'good guy' or a 'good leader' just boggles my mind. That leadership still has to be married with a high level of ability of which I think he's been proven to be mediocre.

53 minutes ago, OtisDriftwood25 said:

Quinn is not my choice but he’s definitely not Rivera. He’s an emotional leader and called plays for a top 5 defense last year. 

Quinn had a Top 3 MINIMUM unit at his disposal last season. Finishing 5th in overall defence is perhaps if not the expectation, just below it.

Listening to Keim's podcast post Johnson news.

His guest was Kevin Sheehan, who imo is a bit of a plank but I'll attempt to play the ball and not the man here. Sheehan spoke rather patronisingly on the fan base and declared several times words to the effect of Harris and Co shouldn't care one bit what the fanbase thinks, referring to a seeming distaste towards hiring Quinn.

I actually think this hiring at this time does warrant an element of fan consideration albeit a small consideration. 30 years of suffering under Snyder has come to an end and it feels like a new era is upon us, with new ownership, a new GM, 2nd overall pick, highest cap space in the NFL and an ownership group it feels can legitimately deliver a new stadium. I think the new HC has to not only lead the players and staff but he has to continue to unite the fan base and sometimes there are candidates for roles that perhaps have the credentials but it just doesn't feel like a fit. Quinn just does not feel like a fit here, and I don't see any scope for quick wins to turn what would be an underwhelmed fan base. Hiring an up and comer who will likely get more rope with the fan base on what will inevitable be a few lean years seems like the better fit and from what I can gauge from fan base reaction would be the preferred route.

Quinn's Defence in Dallas has studs all over, which makes his job a hell of a lot easier.

Soon as it came to prime time in the play offs, they were garbage.

I've just sat through 4 years of the most .500 mediocre HC you can imagine, why the hell anyone would want the same again is beyond me.

Mike Macdonald really is the last big one left for me, the rest of the names we've been linked to are for me at least underwhelming.

Aaron Glenn - For me a pre requisite of getting this job should be that the candidate is at least absolutely nailing their current coordinator role. Glenns Defence ranked 19th overall on the season. I'm sure everything we read about his leadership qualities are true but if he's going to trot out mediocre defence he will be on the hot seat sooner rather than later.

Antony Weaver - Again everything we hear is great from a leadership standpoint, for me this one feels a bit of a stretch though which is perhaps reflected by him taking DC interviews.

Dan Quinn - Just no.

Outsiders - Of all the other names, I'd prefer Mike Vrabel over the 3 above, but its slim pickings. Maybe an outside chance that if they can't get Macdonald, they just go heavy on the trust the process stuff, bring in a filler HC on a year long contract like Bienemy and trade down from 2 overall for a host of picks.

A 50+yo defense orientated retread, former HC who reached and lost a Super Bowl with an all time record little over .500 … sound familiar?

I don’t doubt Quinn has a different personality to Ron, but the production is eerily similar, it would just feel like a complete flatline on all the optimism surrounding the franchise

Just now, FrFan said:

Why Lions DC Aaron Glenn was voted the No. 1 coordinator in the NFL by his players

 

ALLEN PARK -- The Detroit Lions have two of the most-liked coordinators in the league, neither of whom is named Ben Johnson.

The NFL Players Association polled more than 1,600 players this season, asking them to rank their coordinators on a 1-10 scale. Dave Fipp ranked fourth among special teams coordinators, while Aaron Glenn was No. 1 among defensive coordinators in the league.......................

It really doesn’t phase me if he does magic tricks and has pillow talks with the players, leadership is vital but if he runs a D and they perform badly he’ll be on the hot seat. I’m not even overly convinced by the unit he ran this season.