turtle2328

...and my email just arrived. When you send that many emails they have to go out in waves or they get blocked as spam.

3 minutes ago, Howie411 said:

 

 

That processing fee has always been there.   But if they they are going completely digital then that is an insult.        Also what is BS is they clearly said at the Fan Forum last year they would not be removing the hard tickets.

He was specific with his wording about 2018. I believe he said for the "upcoming season". No promises for future seasons. Still, when you go through the checkout, physical delivery in July is an option.

Also, the payment plan is now SIX payments. 

49 minutes ago, dudleyismydog said:

Once again the Redskins completely botch this- It is just stupid business practice to post the invoices before an email from the organization stating that invoices are ready and some details on what they are adding -(nothing worth spending the money for).

 

And this is something i find the most insulting, they add a $25 "processing fee" . It is so unbelievably arrogant to send me a $25 processing fee when all my tickets and parking passes are digital. 

I can forgive the email thing. But I am scratching my head about the $25. In the past it was to cover the cost of the fedex. Now perhaps to cover development costs? There's a similar markup for stubhub seats, so perhaps they can get away with it. And as a percentage it's nothing. It's not like I was sold at $4500 but $4525 makes me say "OH HELL NO!". So I'm thinking it's just a way to nickel and dime a little more margin and protect it from the revenue sharing model. But I will consider it in my decision.

Having special Season Ticket Holder lines to get in and get concessions sounds awful nice. The reduced price on concessions sounds better than last year, but I bet it's the same.

On 1/14/2019 at 6:33 PM, hail2skins said:

Czabe mentioned this on his show last Friday and Steinberg posted on Twitter today. The first "look what we are offering" letter this offseason to try and lure folks back:

 

 

Even if it's an "honest" 2:1 that's still about $225 per ticket per game for the "good" club seats. That only brings them closer to open market pricing. 

11 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

So you still think Dan Snyder cares about the fans?

 

People actually still believed in the "Waiting List" hoax until they told you there was no waiting list?

 

Removing 10s of thousands of seats and still raising the prices of the remaining seats didn't tell you anything about that?

 

For Real?

It's hard for me to think Dan Snyder doesn't care about the fans because I believe he is himself a fan. And not just some run of the mill guy that says he likes the team, but like a total crazy man kind of fan.

The man is a billionaire. If he put all his money in a run of the mill checking account he'd likely make more money in a year than everyone posting on this thread combined in their entire lifetimes. He can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants, with pretty much anyone he wants. 

Yet he still rolls out of bed for the Redskins. I don't think he bats an eye at ticket pricing or sales strategies. That's boring. He's got VP's of ticket sales and a high priced marketing departments for that. I don't think he sues ticket lease holders. He's got lawyers for that. He enjoys food, but does he cook? My hunch is, he's got a chef for that. But when his team wins a big game you better believe he's jumpin' around. I guess he could pay me to do that, but some things you have to do yourself am I right? Anything that isn't fun or palatable, he doesn't get involved. Because... why would he?

If I'm right, and he's in this for the love the team, then yes I believe he does. That doesn't mean the VP of sales who makes his living by selling tickets has the same pure motivations. He's got to feed his family. I'm pretty sure if that means selling tickets to Eagles fans, he's going to do it. So the VP needs his incentives aligned to Mr. Snyder's goals - that is to say, he needs incentives to give the team every edge possible over maximum short term revenues. But is Mr. Snyder even setting those incentives? I'm pretty sure he's pretty far removed from that. It's too boring. So you've got to reach a level or even two down from Mr. Snyder.

At least publicly, Lafamina seemed to be the guy he/we wanted. He reported directly to Mr. Snyder, NOT BRUCE, and was supposed to have control over this type of stuff.  He was taking a long term view that valued viability of the season ticket product over short term revenue. I can't really say why he's gone but his departure concerns me about if they'll have the stomach and foresight to continue his approach.

1 hour ago, hail2skins said:

I'd also like to see the Redskins lower prices across the board. But my guess....and of course I could be wrong......was that they'll go back to selling to brokers, in order to at least mitigate as much as possible the embarrassment of many empty seats . 

That's my concern too.  If the secondary market returns to how it was in 2017 they'll lose all their season ticket holders. Their best hope will be a neutral field for the most relevant games.

If a team will actively sell their tickets to opposing fans who will eagerly undermine their on field efforts, the team doesn't care about their on field efforts. I don't see how anyone could care about a team that doesn't care about their own fans or itself. 

2 hours ago, hail2skins said:

20K seats available per what source? Ticketmaster? Stubhub? A combo of both?

 

Or are you saying there were 20K seats vacant in the seating bowl?

 

I can tell you that I'd look on Stubhub in select corner club level sections the week before games. There'd be like 10 seats available in a section that holds, say, 300.  Then gameday happens and I'd look at those sections and there'd be 60 seats occupied in the whole section. Doesn't sound like they were made available to me. 

Maybe they weren't selling them on any site. I didn't try to tally them all up. Can you think of a reason why they'd have them open, un-tarped, and not try to sell them?

We do see the average was about 60k (not sure if it's ticket sold or actual attendance) which leaves roughly 20k tickets open each game. That's roughly 1/4 open. There's only that one section that never had open seats. My choice section was more like 1/15 and some of those upper sections were more like 1/1. Still, there really wasn't any concern about getting any kind of seat you wanted. That combined with our price tracking supports Coach Janky Spanky's point. He can get the seats he wants to every game he wants to attend. Because he's not paying for pre-season and the games where we're mathematically eliminated, he's coming out ahead even after the ticketing fees. So indeed, why would he pay a premium to get the package?

I'm 100% with him on this point. There should be a bulk discount. His/our extreme patronage should carry an incentive or reward. Maybe a penalty too. Maybe the incentive to buy the package, like it used to be, should be that's the only way you can get them. But as a paying customer, I'm cool with them dropping the price and restricting resale. After all, I buy them because I want to go.

34 minutes ago, hail2skins said:

Is this true? I didn't pay enough attention to the inventory on Ticketmaster (through the Redskins website) this year to see the availability of tickets for each game. I know that there were a number of games where you had some rows in the upper part of the lower bowl end zone sections that were available or sat empty on game days.

 

Otherwise, there really wasn't an issue this season filling the lower bowl. Again, the big concentration of opposing fans is on the lower bowl visitors side. I have a suspicion that a lot of those seats are not individual STH, but might be held by larger entities that make the seats available to their employees, and those workers who are fans of the opposition acquire them. But can't say for sure. 

The waiting list was debunked seven years ago when they started yanking seats out of the stadium. The marketing guys probably got dumped because you had half-full club and upper levels. 

On average there were something like 20k seats (1/4) available on any given Sunday. Most of those were upstairs but there were plenty of seats for sale in excellent locations in all but section 242. In fairness, I NEVER checked the Loge or Suites. And maybe those had something to do with Mr. Lafamina's departure. Whatever the case, it's a real shame because he cared about the long term viability of the season ticket product and I, for one, appreciated his efforts. 

28 minutes ago, Coach Janky Spanky said:

 

There's one thing that will lead to a better experience and growing the fan base and protecting the viability of the product.   Winning.   That's it.    So, what's the easiest path to winning?   

Try to fill the lower bowl with Redskins fans only (which I contend is impossible) --->  to get a 3-6 point impact (which I contend is exaggerated with a half full stadium or even a mostly full one) ----> win more games based on the 3-6 point impact ----> get more fan interest ----> better fan experience

OR

Hire a real team president who hires a real quality football GM with 100% final say on the roster who also hires the coach who hires the assistants -----> winning ----> better fan experience and growth of fan base and long term viability of product.

 

I'd say it's the latter.   And until the Redskins start acting like a competent organization, they will never have long-term sustained success.  Sustained success will lead to inspired fans, home field advantage, etc.   Artificially trying to improve home field advantage for a bottom of the barrel team run by incompetent football people with things like whatever the Vegas Knights did, rather than actually building a winning team, seems like doing things in reverse.  

 

 

I'm not familiar with how the Knights did it would seem difficult, especially in the current environment.  There are thousands and thousands of seats available on the primary market in the lower bowl.  A fan of any other team can walk up to the FedEx window on game day and purchase a seat in the lower bowl.   Who and where are all these phantom fans waiting to fill the lower bowl?    I've been in the upper bowl since 1998.   But I'm out now.  Not renewing.    Not necessarily because I have no hope in the franchise (I haven't for years) or because of traffic or parking (it's been bad for years) but because why the heck would I pay for preseason and 10 parking passes and and 1-2 games I can't or don't want to attend, when I can easily log onto ticketmaster and purchase my same exact seats for the game I want to go to.  

 

I think people misunderestimate the gravity of the situation.   It was only a year or two ago that some poster on this board was trying to convince people (including me) not to sell our tickets on stubhub because opposing fans might buy them.   Many people didn't seem to realize that the team was selling thousands and thousands of tickets to brokers, who were then dumping them onto the market, resulting in the influx of opposing fans.   At least this year the organization had the fortitude and honesty to admit what had been clear to all of us for several years -- that there was no season ticket waiting list.  

There's nothing saying you can't look for an advantage from the ticket office in addition to looking for an edge from the front office and the coaching staff. The entire organization should do whatever they can to help the team win. 

The dynamics of the tickets are indeed perverse. Someone who buys/attends every game should have a better rate and preferential treatment vs. an opposing team fan. They should fix it. The steps they took this past season made a huge difference. The secondary market isn't pennies on the dollar has it has been in recent years.  It wasn't enough and they should continue to make a concerted effort towards protecting home field advantage. 

8 minutes ago, Coach Janky Spanky said:

 

How is that going to happen?!?  What pricing and what restrictions?  There aren't enough Redskins fans attending games to fill the lower bowl.  I wish people would start to understand that.  

Reduced pricing and increased restrictions on resale (like the Knights did). Perhaps there'd be more fans attending if the price were right (and other things, but that's a big one).

1 hour ago, Howie411 said:

 

What they need to do is what the Caps did for a while.  They had 2 different STM prices.  1 for Renewals and 1 for new folks.   So if you renewed you got a bigger discount on your tickets then new season ticket holders.   And new season ticket holders got a bigger discount then gate prices.   Obviously that the Caps don't do this anymore cause they are the hot team in town.

 

On a side note I'd love to be able to see available see before committing to renewing.   I'm in the upper deck row 1 in the corner Endzone.  My rep told me there was a lot of seats in row 1 or 2 closer to the 50 that they were "holding"   Not sure whatever happened to those seats, but its pretty much BS they were holding seats that I'd be interested in moving to.

You should move downstairs

Everyone in the lower bowl should be season ticket holders that attend pretty much every game. The ticket office needs to price them and have restrictions to make that happen. Even if it's not the path to the highest short term revenue, it'll lead to a better experience and a path to growing the fan base. It would protect the long term viability of their product (in-person football). The payoff for the short term (and long term) is the 3-6 point impact it'd have on every home game. 

If the goal of the organization is to win, this is an obvious move they simply must make. If winning is your goal, those seats are better empty than with an opposing team fan in them.

3 minutes ago, hail2skins said:

1. This is something we'll probably have to agree to disagree on, but there is zero proof that Lafemina's new policy which resulted in higher prices dissuaded visiting fans in greater numbers than Redskins fans. 

 

2. Reserve the club for premium prices?  They do that, and you are seeing the result. A seating area in between the lower and upper levels that is at most 40-50 percent occupied for many games. 

1. I've got evidence supporting that did in fact work in all but the Eagles game. It's not the best evidence, but it's an excellent indicator.

2. They didn't really. We covered this in the other thread. Market value of the lower bowl is actually higher than the club level. That's gotta stop right? 

They should do it something like the the NHL's Knights. Sell the tickets to you and I at a discount, we agree not to re-sell them. If there's a resale, they stop selling us tickets. That protects their product in the middle rows. The upstairs could be used to generate goodwill and interest among the younger generations, military, first responders, etc. 

1 hour ago, hail2skins said:

From your perch in the lower bowl, you didn't see a difference.

 

The club and upper levels were an absolute disaster. The "euphoria" of the crowd did not exist on those levels.

 

I can see the point of trying to protect STH value and maybe it was a strategy that would've worked long-term, but the seating bowl optics this season were terrible.

 

I'd like to see the Redskins either get a head start on their new 60K stadium by removing more seats from FedEx. And maybe making the prices for the actual tickets cheaper.

No doubt those seats were pretty empty. However, the last few years those empty seats would have been full... of opposing team's fans. And that's much worse. So from that sense, there was a big difference.

I'd be completely down with removing the upper bowl or giving them away to elementary school kids. Paying customers at a reduced rate in the lower bowl that are passionate about the team... that's something worth paying for. Reserve  the club for premium prices and maybe visiting fans who are ready to pay a premium price.

On 1/1/2019 at 10:08 PM, ThomasTomasz said:

Early thoughts on any of you guys renewing or not?  I am on the fence like I was after the GMSM debacle.  Even more on the fence if they keep this current program where I can buy tickets to specific games. 

I believe I'll renew. They did a lot this year to recapture home field advantage. My hope is, they continue the effort. The Eagles game was wholly unacceptable from a season ticket holder's perspective. But one game is WAY better than in recent years. If they revert to selling to ticket brokers and the market goes back to the $0.10 on the dollar, they won't see me in 2020.

Here's the thing, if they lose me as a season ticket holder it means I'm only buying tickets to playoff games and/or the super bowl. The biggest selling points to buying tickets is the euphoria of the crowd. If I can't get that on any given Sunday, I'm not paying for it.

The next biggest selling point is having an impact on the game. If there aren't 60k+ cheering fans, the fans can't have an impact and I feel like I'm pissing in the ocean - impact = 0. Being the lone guy yelling his face off makes you feel like an idiot instead of a good fan. 

On 12/23/2018 at 8:10 PM, Howie411 said:

Curious to see what the Redskins do come renewal time.  Its usually at the end of January.  In the past early renewal got you extra Redskins Reward points.  Not sure that is going to work this year.

How/why do you think it'd be different?

16 hours ago, skinfan2k said:

you bought a house because of FOMO lol.  the biggest purchase in your life and you let others convince you.  yeah i dont trust your judgement in anything because you just said that. 

 

 

Troll.

21 hours ago, skinfan2k said:

yeah because you clearly indicate you bought a house for a short term investment.  sorry not sorry

Not really. I bought my first one because of FOMO and social pressure. Houses are not as liquid or as sound as people would lead you to believe.

Don't hate. Buy something because you like it and want it and can afford it. 

21 hours ago, Cliffmark1 said:

 

that is an incredilous comparison and a very debatable fact pattern on houses.

 

i had season tickets. i stopped having fun around 2009. i should have bought more real estate in hindsight. 

You should have bought more bitcoin too.

13 hours ago, skinfan2k said:

Clearly you don't own a house. 

This is a lesson learned from experience. I DO own a house. But if I had it all to do over again, no chance.

On 4/9/2018 at 9:37 AM, MarkB452 said:

 

I think the final straw for my brother was last season when he sold his pair of tickets and green parking passes for the last 3 home games (Giants @ Thanksgiving, Cardinals Dec 17, and Broncos Dec 24).  I think he got roughly $100 a game for what cost him $330 a game.  That's pretty harsh.

 

 

 

I think the final straw for my brother was last season when he sold his pair of tickets and green parking passes for the last 3 home games (Giants @ Thanksgiving, Cardinals Dec 17, and Broncos Dec 24).  I think he got roughly $100 a game for what cost him $330 a game.  That's pretty harsh.

 

 

Yeah man... selling them is a losing proposition. I look at it very similar to buying a house. Don't get a huge mortgage because you think it's a great short term investment. Buy a house because you love it and plan on using it forever. Any appreciation is irrelevant because you'll be dead when it's realized. Buy season tickets because you love it and plan on going to every game.

16 hours ago, MarkB452 said:

-- we have hijacked this thread for too long....need to start a new thread on this.

 

Add up superbowl wins for your 15 vs. my 17 over a 10 year span?

>> Would I get to repick your 17 each year?  The Browns are bad now, but maybe (just maybe) they will be good in 8 - 10 years.  Heck, Carolina and Jacksonville played in their conference championship games in their second season.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_NFL_season

 

No repick. Season tickets are not a one year investment. You've had season tickets since the 70's. If you get rid of those lowers this year, there is no guarantee you'll be able to get those seats if we ever do catch lightning in a bottle and you decide to be interested again.

But holding them and selling them year to year is terrible financial decision and a net negative to the team if they end up in the hands of opposing teams. The best choice is to buy them and use them. The next best would be to buy them and sell them a Redskins fan that will go to every game. Or give them to Redskins fans. The worst thing you can do is let them fall into the hands of opposing team fans... at any price.

On 4/3/2018 at 10:02 AM, MarkB452 said:

 

Yes, hence the conditions of my bet.   How about 17 teams for you that I pick and 15 for me that I pick?  According to your calculations, you should have a win probability of 17/32 vs. 15/32 for me (..and you can have the Redskins as one of your 17 teams...I would gladly pay $500 to see the Redskins win a Superbowl).

 

 

...which reminds me of this.....

 

 

Add up superbowl wins for your 15 vs. my 17 over a 10 year span?

On 3/30/2018 at 5:39 PM, skinfan2k said:

@turtle2328Money talks, bull**** walks.  

On 3/30/2018 at 2:48 PM, HOF44 said:

So thats a NO??  lol

 

And all these odds, i thought everyone was 32:1

Gentlemen, those are the odds Vegas will extend to you.  The mathematical odds are in fact 1:32. If someone wants to extend a bet where the mathematical odds are in my favor, I'll accept. If you believe the odds are NOT 1:32, you should be happy to give me better than 16 teams out of 32. I'm especially interested in this sort of thing over a series of years, not just one year.

22 hours ago, MarkB452 said:

 

 

Yes, plus they still have a QB named Brady, a coach who loves hoodies, etc.  If both of them retired/died, I might not be enthusiastic about their chances.

 

Tell you what, if you believe all teams have an equal chance, then I will construct a list of 16 teams for you and 16 teams for me.  Given your logic, the probability of a team winning the SuperBowl from either group is EQUALLY likely (50% chance for each group).   I am willing to bet upwards of $500 that the next SuperBowl  (LIII) winner will come from my group.

You want me to bet $500 straight up on a coin flip? How about you pick 2 teams, none of which are the Redskins, and I'll get the field? I'd also be down with you picking 10 teams, leaving me 22 teams, and counting up Super bowl wins over the coming decade. 

 FYI - odds are presently 6:1 and 10:1 for the Pats and Steelers respectively. So if you bet $250 on each, you'd net $1250 or $2250 pre-vig. Meanwhile, Bears, Browns, Jets are 150:1. The Patriots are not 25 times more likely to win the super bowl than any of those 3 teams. Nor are they 12.5 times more likely to win than the Redskins or twice as likely to win as the Eagles, Packers or Vikings - all 12:1.

On 3/12/2018 at 1:57 PM, MarkB452 said:

 

Personally, I'm thinking after 10 straight blacks, the dang think is broken and going for black.

 

Prob of black =.486

 

Prob of 10 black in a row = (.486)^10 = 0.0007351  = 1 / 1360.3

 

 

Yes, but not all of those outcomes are equally likely.  I think the Patriots have a better chance of winning the next SuperBowl than the Browns do. 

But you only think that because the Patriots (black) keep coming up. Maybe it's broken. But it doesn't matter if black has come up 9 times in a row. Odds of the 10th time being black are 18/38 just like the Redskins odds this year are 1/32.

You could have 100 blacks in a row. I just wouldn't bet on that happening at spin #1.

Still, you guys are missing my point somewhat. Even if we did win the Super Bowl this year, it doesn't make me feel confident that they'll win again in 2020. Odds in 2020 are once again 1/32. Basing your fandom or purchasing habits based on the ability of a team to defy the odds means you're not really interested in fandom or purchasing. If a winning ticket is the only ticket worth buying, you're only buying recap DVDs from Sports Illustrated in Super Bowl years. Maybe you'd buy a Super Bowl ticket because at least your odds are 1/2 vs. 1/32 for the season ticket package. A season ticket purchaser is signing up for the journey in the hopes of seeing the UNLIKELY outcome. The unlikely outcome is the exciting and valuable outcome simply because it's unlikely. Some people want to say they were there to see it.

To say it the other way, there's a reason why you don't get offered a payout for betting on the field in roulette. And if you could, that'd be boring anyway.

On 3/9/2018 at 7:36 PM, skinfan2k said:

Odds are different than reality. 

If you're watching a roulette wheel, and black has come up 10 straight times, do you feel your odds are better betting on black because of the history, or red because it's due?