Koala

On 5/28/2017 at 11:21 AM, grego said:

 

 

Its myopic and self hating. (I point this out as an immigrant for context). I rarely if ever see an argument lamenting the horrors of being forced to grow up in America (hyperbole alert ) that acknowledges this. 

Well, people only have their experiences to judge by, and really that's all that's relevant anyhow.  Can you at least acknowledge that a black man growing up in the deep south in the 60s, might have every right to lament a rather horrific upbringing, and that there is no reason or excuse to minimize the horrors he felt from the deep racism he experienced, just because you had a different experience, or somewhere in South Africa someone had an even worse experience?

How about urban youth in high crime neighborhoods that really do live in fear of the police?  Gonna tell them they're overeacting?  Have you honestly ever had to deal with constant harassment, trigger happy police officers and living with the real fear that one false move, one suspicious bulge in youe pocket, one wallet that is misidentified as a gun, can result in your death?  What if you had to deal with stop and frisk policies (being automatically searched regardless of suspicion of a crime), wouldn't that infuriate you, and probably have resulted in a far greater chance you'd get arrested for something petty like having a dime bag in your pocket, something that the kids on the nice side of town get away with all the time?

Sometimes you have to live it or see it to understand and believe it. Recently there has been all this scandal about police brutality, which minorities have been complaining about for years.  But it wasn't until phone cameras came along and showed it to people, that large parts of the population where finally like, "omg that's horrible, I thought people were just exaggerating."  Meanwhile, large numbers of black people are like, "what the hell did you think we were complaining about all these years???  Did you think that we were all just making it up?????"

Are you gonna tell the Latino immgrants, who now are subject to ICS roadblocks only in their part of town, who have to carry around immigration papers to avoid being locked up whilr ICS agents sort things out, that"hey its not so bad, you know the Palestinians have it even worse."

I sincerely don't understand why you think, for any of those examples above, asking people to acknowledge Americas greatness is necessary, or even relevant to these peoples experiences.  It's nothing but patronizing and dismissive.  Period.

GoPro helmets on every on duty cop, any complaint sparks a review and release of footage. We need this more than we need ****ing armored mine resistant cop cars like nypd has. Police have lost the trust of the public, this will go a long ways to restoring it as the police have had time and have failed to resolve this issue on their own,

Must say Im impressed with the persistence of the Egyptian protestors. I thought after Mubarak stepped down, that they might be easily distracted and talked into accepting a pseudo-democratic state that allowed the military to retain its hold on Egyptian society. I was wrong. These protests arent going to end until the military learns that it is there to srve the people, not the other way around.

Wow, being NATO fail today. And now they have officially ****ed up the Libya situation beyond repair. Thanks for gaining sympathy for Gaddafi, failing to stop his forces, failing to kill Gaddafi, and killing his 3 grandkids instead. This is pretty much the worst case situation now.

Good thing no one has the ability to send help to the Libyan people right now....

Too busy sending troops to oppress other peoples.

Thats a little simplistic, dont you think. For one, Libya doesnt ahve the Sunni Shiite overtones that Bahrain does. Secondly, and more importantly, Libya and Saudia are not on the same continent. To get to Libya, they would first have to march through Egypt, and youll have to forgive Abdullah if he thinks that the worst idea anyone has ever come up with.

Because what you wish for. I think right now, if people could vote in Middle East or other dictoral Muslim countries you would see radicals in power.

The only country that would move away from radicals will be Iran since they've already lived under radicalism and hate it. Eventually, Iran will be free.

Other parts view the radicalism as their solutions to their problems.

Maybe, maybe not. The only thing that IS guaranteed, is that the more the U.S. is seen as interfering, the more it risks a backlash from whichever side it didnt support.

Radical Islamists are not leading either the Tunisia revolution or the Egyptian one. Both of these revolutions are mostly being lead by angry, unemployed youths who have not yet learned to fear their governments. Their beliefs range from secular to islamist. But the muslim brotherhood has been slow to join the revolution in egypt, meaning right now the egyptian islamists are following, not LEADING the revolution.

There's no way to determine who will end up on top now. Anybody that is guessing, is doing just that -- guessing.

As for the U.S.s response -- I think of the line from Clear and Present Danger: "Theres no sense in trying to defuse a bomb thats gone off."

World peace and prosperity.....thru submission to Allah

sorry,I don't trust fundamentalists

http://www.mideastweb.org/Middle-East-Encyclopedia/muslim_brotherhood.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood

http://www.adl.org/terrorism/symbols/muslim_brotherhood_1.asp#7

n its March 2004 reform initiative, the Brotherhood declared: "Our only hope to achieve progress in all the aspects of life is by retuning to our religion and implementing our Sharia ... We have a clear mission-working to put in place Allah's law, on the basis of our belief that it is the real, effective way out of our problems-domestic or external, political, economic, social or cultural.

"This is to be achieved by forming the Muslim individual, the Muslim home, the Muslim government, and the state which will lead the Islamic states, reunite the scattered Muslims, restore their glory, retrieve for them their lost lands and stolen homelands, and carry the banner of the call to Allah in order to make the world happy with Islam’s blessings and instructions."

http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/arabunity/2008/02/2008525185757654836.html

If Egypt democratically elects Muslim Brotherhood into power, I say let em have it. If muslims want to be muslim in muslim countries, well let them. I fail to see why the fact that "you dont trust them" is a valid reason for suppressing democratic impulses.

If said muslim governments are hostile, be hostile in return. And since they would be in power, it would be a lot easier to hold the hostile nation and its government accountable. Notice how Hamas has largely cleaned up its act (compared to previous days, its still far from perfect) since it got into power? Think thats a coincidence?

I dont see anything in the muslim brotherhood's agenda that indicates forcing sharia law onto other non-muslim countries. Really, i dont think they give a **** about your freedom, they're just sick of your insecurities costing them THEIR freedom.

Let 'em in power I say. Easier to hold them accountable that way.

**Edit: I dont mean "you" specifically twa. I mean the outside world, non-egyptians. I think the egyptian people are sick of both westerners and other arab countries meddling and helping prop up mubarak. Its not really even a west v. islam thing, its an egypt v. mubarak and the world sort of thing. If that makes sense

What more can they ask for? They already have free press and are free to do whatever they want unlike most Arab countries.

To be higher up in their military, you cannot have a veiled wife or be conservative. It is a fairly liberal country, I dont see anything happening besides people protesting asking for better rights/services...but other than that, I dont know what else could happen

Wow, that couldnt be further from the truth Reporter's without Borders has ranked Egypt 143 out of 167 countries on freedom of the press. Elections are even worse/ Some of the anger in Egpyt right now is due to the fact they claimed some ridiculous margin of victory, something like 97% of the vote, which is simply insulting to the people's intelligence.

From the US STATE DEPARTMENT, "The government's respect for human rights remained poor, and serious abuses continued in many areas. The government limited citizens' right to change their government and continued a state of emergency that has been in place almost continuously since 1967. Security forces used unwarranted lethal force and tortured and abused prisoners and detainees, in most cases with impunity. "

Yeah, okay, compared to the Taliban or the Saudis, maybe, but if you're best defense for Mubarak involves comparing him to a monarchy and to a bunch of cave-men, then you have no defense at all.

By "liberal", I take it you mean that as euphemism for non-islamic. Because its not usually considered liberal, in the classic sense, to tell someone's wife how to dress...

This is a good moment to see who the hypocrites are and who the real supporters of freedom and democracy. Democracy can be messy, and we might not always like the results (see Hamas), but this is really pretty clear cut, IMO. I cant think of any way to support Mubarak in this right now that wouldnt come down against the side of freedom and democracy.

Chase is the next Trent Green. I remember being impressed with some #10 in preseason games while everyone else was arguing Gus/Heath. Now Im having flashbacks.

Although, Im not counting Colt out just yet. He's obviously a very determined guy, who doesnt take no for an answer. LOL, sorry.