my_friend_goo

2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

If my daughters want to take pride in being Commanders fans versus embarrased to be associated that means it's working...my Dad didn't force me, he waited to see what'd happened and left the door open every Sunday.

 

Saying stuff like "winning a championship" or " full brand new stadium" is like what they are supposed to do, that's supposed to be their goals same as any other franchise.  Our franchise, however has gone through a very different set of circumstances the last couple years then others.

 

We've lost at least two generations worth of fans...any true success will be measured around turning that around goin forward.

I've put a placeholder in - need to think more about how to measure it. The anecdotal evidence is there, no doubt. But having a recent baseline of level of support from younger fans to measure against is the only way to really confirm. 

10 hours ago, KillBill26 said:

I would like to see 98+% home attendance. 

 

Somehow, we were 86% last year.  I thought it would've been below that, and it still ranked dead last by a mile, but we know it also included a lot of no shows and opposing fans.  

https://www.espn.com/nfl/attendance

 

We are only 20th in capacity, so I think getting close to 100% is attainable.  13 teams were at 100%+ last year.  

https://sports.betmgm.com/en/blog/nfl-largest-stadiums/

 

I want to see Fed Ex sold out with burgundy and gold in the stands, not the other teams colors.  My second measurable goal would be  ZERO negative stories of misconduct of any kind from our front office.  Those 2 are my short term goals.  A playoff appearance would be nice, but a higher draft pick and coaching changes may be best for the long haul, so that's not as high on my list for 2023 as the other 2 I mentioned. 

 

A state of the art stadium in DC, and winning ON the field, are my long term goals.

 

 

Yep, % attendance should be the measure and as much of it for the home team as possible.

Stories of misconduct is a harder one to quantify. The ones we've heard of in recent times have taken years to come out. I'd imagine that organisational conduct would be under close scrutiny, but I'd hate to see 5 years pass with no negative reports of a topic workplace, only for it all to come out in year 6.

I'll add the stadium. I'm separating the stadium from a return to DC. The whole shebang would be incredible, but delivering a state of the art stadium with a highly ranked gameday experience will be a substantial improvement regardless of where it's located (within reason, of course).

11 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

1. Fix the front office structure. We need quality people on the business side. We need a top Gm on the personnel side.

 

2. Starting in 24, the head coach is only a coach with no other duties. Ron wants to a return, he will no longer have those other powers.

 

3. When we finally move on from Ron, get an offensive minded coach.  
 

 

You can go on but those are keys to success.

Added. I've focused on the true GM model that has been sorely lacking and for which I've seen people clamouring for the whole time I've been a member here (about 15 years I think).

For coach, I'm thinking landing a sought-after prospect. The type we've seen leave here in the past, or would have had no chance of attracting over other more desirable teams.

To me, a fail would be more of the same - retreads or settling for lower tier prospects, with continued mediocre results. A return to winning without achieving either wouldn't be a failure, I'd consider not achieved but not necessary in this case.

11 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

Find a FRANCHISE QB should be quite high on the list. 

Absolutely. Acquire or develop a long term starter at QB who is perennially ranked top 10.

Sustained success is what we should aspire to. A Manning-Denver or Brady-Tampa scenario may lead to short-term success, but after over 30 years of predominantly mediocrity, a new long-lasting era is the best way to bring this team back from the dead.

29 minutes ago, LetThePointsSoar said:

1.  Fix the rebrand. 

 

Everything else is secondary.  They could win a Super Bowl and it still won't matter as much as correcting the name. It'll always be Dan's expansion team until it's corrected. 

I'm with you on this one, held off on including this in my initial list as I wanted some discussion on what "fixing" entails. I'm not going to put everyone's favourite name suggestion as a goal because there's so many differing opinions and a whole thread dedicated to it. However, what we do know:

- ES poll stands at 90% "hate it" on the Commanders name

- merchandise sales were amongst the worst in the league following the rebrand - ie no rebrand boost of people buying in.

- No obvious love for the away jerseys and mixed to negative views on the black colour scheme. 

I think a commitment from the ownership to brand improvement in one way or other, coupled with a boost in sales signifies success. Whether that means sticking with the current name but doing a better job with the branding, or full name change. 

As an attempt to re-engage with this forum and the team (I've only ever been a fly-by poster here and silent for some time as i found myself losing interest), I thought I'd try to bring a new angle to discussions on the changes going on with the team with the new ownership.

The purpose of this thread is to capture a list of all the things we'd like to see this organisation achieve under the ownership of the Harris group, then cross them off when they've been reached. I'll maintain a list in this post.

The idea isn't to debate topics here, there's plenty of other threads ongoing for that. Rather, to define easily measurable goals. There was so much wrong with the previous ownership that I'm sure there's a sizeable list to make. Some can happen quickly, others may take some years to come into fruition.

So, while we should all consider winning a superbowl the number one objective (and for many of us, the only one that really matters), it's far from the only thing that will show the team is moving in the right direction, or that the task of bringing a passionate fanbase back to strength. I'll start with a few examples to get the ball rolling (no claims to being the originator to any of these, I've seen these mentioned plenty of times in various other threads). Some bars I'll set low, but there's a big climb ahead and the bar can be raised once the lower limit is beaten. Other goals may get missed, and I'll track those, too.

The ES list of goals for the Washington Commanders under The Harris Group ownership

1. Win 11 or more games in a season.

2. Rank in the top half of the league in attendance.

3. Return the team to DC.

4. Initiate a rebrand or refresh of existing brand to better overall reception and improved merchandise sales.

5. Acquire or develop a long term starter at QB who is perennially ranked top 10.

6. Install a new front office, starting with hiring a true GM with a clear vision.

7. Attract a highly desired head coaching prospect that fits the GM's vision for the team.

8. Build a state of the art stadium with a gameday experience ranking in the top half of the league.

9. Increase in younger generations in fan demographic breakdown. 

Remember,  the list doesn't just have to cover winning games, it can cover anything neglected or done badly by the previous ownership. So short term improvement to training facilities and the stadium are good examples, but I'd welcome suggestions on specifics as to how to measure. I'd also appreciate help with identifying when we can consider the goals to have been achieved. 

4 hours ago, pez said:

Sorry... Didn't see this, or I would have responded sooner...

 

Both Tanya Snyder and Jason Wright were sporting their ES Pins at that game.

 

If you guys recall, we had a ton of those made up a number of years ago to raise money for the tailgate charity (Abby's Army). Tanya reached out to us and then sent her son to our tailgate to purchase more than half of our stock, and handed them out to a bunch of the redskins staff, coaches and others. FYI, this is not the first time she has sported that pin.

 

During the housecleaning a year or two ago, Extremeskins kinda got lost in the mix, and completely forgotten (we had a couple outages because they forgot to pay the light bill). Huly and I and some of the folks here worked to get ES back on their radar, and I can tell you that Tanya is fully aware of this site's presence.

 

Despite what you think about Dan Snyder, I can tell you that Tanya is an absolutely awesome person... between her charity efforts, and the way she treats people in the organization, she has been a fantastic person to work with.

 

A concern that Huly and I have is what will happen to this site if a transfer of ownership occurs. We may want to make contingency plans to go independent again. WE will do everything we can to help make sure that the organization always knows about the presence of ES and the die hard fans that live here...

Working on the basis that this is the truth (and I have no reason to doubt you as you have first hand experience and aren't the only person to say the same), given all the consistency of reports about the character of her husband, it does make one wonder what first attracted her to the billionaire Dan Snyder...

17 minutes ago, FuriousD said:

Clearly, you missed the Detroit-Pitt epic yesterday.. 😉

I never excluded the possibility that there can be two losers 🤔.

P42...

The hardest thing about a good sporting contest is that there can only be one winner by scoreline, but we can all act like winners by showing equal grace in victory and defeat.

Take a lesson from the humble fan base on this forum and only look for the positives where you fall short of success. That Brady fella has talent, but he can't overcome a masterclass in closing out a game when he's sat on the bench. I have faith he'll learn and grow from this experience and I look forward to many future battles between these quarterbacks. 

Aura voir until we next meet!

I depreciate your statisticals, particularly those for your own scurvy seadogs as my predications come out in the same ball park. However, this week, the futböl team will be  auditioning kickers throughout the game, with no room for anyone else. So my counter-porpoisal is as such:

Chris Blewitt: 0/0 FG, 0 XP

Joey Slye: 1/3 FG, 0 XP

Lenny Wideright: 2/3 FG, 0 XP

Ron Sneakye: 1/0 FG, 1/1 XP

Shanky McShankface: 0/10 FG, 0/10 XP

Final score: 

Florida Team: 48

Washington East: 13

5 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

FYP? 
 

i watch too much tik tok so I’m thinking “for you page”, but obviously it’s not that....what’s FYP in ES language??

**** You Psnyder?

Mark Davies totally giving off "dorky high school kid being interviewed" vibes here. If only that chair had a much higher back to make him look smaller in proportion!

11 minutes ago, A-Lost-Wolf said:

I’m  not following the logic of this whole scenario (not your point directly) just the idea we would want or support one of the worlds most corrupt organizations ( US CONGRESS) investigating a smaller and probably less corrupt organization? 
When this is perceived to be the last hope of our fans to get change we are making a deal with the Most Power Hungry Corrupt entity I know of to oust the owner of our team? 
 

From my personal perspective on the issues with WFT it boils down to the “human” in human beings, there are ****ty people that do ****ty things and this isn’t new, it’s been like this throughout time. The issues with our team aren’t the disease they are just the symptoms of what is happening in our world not just today but ever since time began. 
I grow so weary of the uproar about these issues and especially now because we want corruption to investigate corruption as if there will be any change in how people treat people in this world…. This kind of solution is just so you can feel good? Seriously people, if you are really upset with these issues then accepting the corrupt to investigate the corrupt is insane unless you just want to sleep well at night knowing something happened somewhere and there was an investigation so moving on 🤷‍♂️.

 

So many in these threads jump up on a soapbox exclaiming their disdain for how horrible this all is….. y’all want these types of issues to become less prevalent then start at your work, your friends, your neighborhoods. Be aware, speak up, don’t let bad people get away with bad things anywhere we can, even in small things because when bad people get power they don’t stop doing the same things they got away with before. Make people accountable for ALL their actions no matter how small they are perceived to be then maybe sometime in our lifetime these issues will be less prevalent. We can’t just scream when these issues hit the national news or big corporations, we should make sure we deal with these issues in our normal life so others won’t think it’s acceptable. 
 

 

We will never remove the bad crap in this world but we sure as hell can reduce the amount if we do what we can in our own environment.

 

rant over lol, so we need new better LB’s right? 

I often am reminded that the people who want power are generally the least suited to have it. I also don't necessarily believe any action by Congress will necessarily result in guilty parties being found out. I do believe that that's the best chance of anything coming out of this, where else do you think that kind of pressure is likely to come from?

Mankind's propensity for being utter ****s to each other is probably unfixable, but can't disagree that the only way to change things is by recognising and calling out toxic behaviour. Any shift won't come quickly though.

Seems to me like congress has the best chance of breaking this out into the open, assuming they have the power to do what is necessary.

Based on the precedent so far, this is likely to have league-wide consequences, so the chances of people on the inside taking action are low. I'd say the sponsors taking action may also be wishful thinking. Plenty of those sponsors make easy money out of the league. Putting pressure on a name change for one unpopular team is low hanging fruit. Maybe the ones who aren't directly involved in the sports aspect of it, but I really don't think a company like Nike is going to want to unleash the carnage.

Ultimately I just want to see the people who have suffered get justice. It's not about wishing for an ownership change, nor caring about the consequences to the league as a whole. Even in the event that there is no evidence in those emails that anybody else has done anything on a par with Gruden (and of course that feels unlikely, but there hasn't been a wave of whistleblowers showing up elsewhere...yet), the whole handling of it certainly has the optics of being deeply inadequate.

Nice insight into what the game was like once upon a time. Thanks for sharing.

I know that the shape of the ball has changed over the years to make it easier to throw, but that Detroit QB threw an ugly ball (still better than anything I can do, mind you). Sammy clearly in a different league.

7 hours ago, ananoman said:

I love how people take negative statements about the WFT and spin them so that it isn't as bad as reported.....as if this wreck of a franchise needs or deserves anyone coming to their defense and standing up for them.

That's not what I did at all. I even go as far as to state the situation is dire. I'm even one of the people in this post that's gone as far as to say I can hardly be bothered anymore.

There's clearly something up with the ESPN stats. Attendance doesn't plummet with the arrival of Zorn, it's actually marginally higher than Gibbs' last year yet going from approx 88000 to 88500 per is a drop from 110% of capacity to 97%, even though max capacity didn't change. Correct that first figure and it would put us around 20th in the league in 2007, not 2nd, and that's with no home attendance stats reported for 4 teams.

Of course, we don't need unreliable self-reported figures which are propped up by away fans to tell us what the eye can see. But don't call me out for bothering to try and understand the numbers in more detail when you presumably haven't.

Those attendance numbers are a bit misleading, as it's % of total capacity. Look at average attendance and it's a totally different story. So "how far back" isn't truly representative when you compare year on year and vs other attendance considering on a typical year a larger proportion of teams are sub 100% rather than above and many of those have substantially lower attendance in absolute numbers. The numbers don't take into consideration what proportion of the crowd is for the away team though.

What is stark though is attendance this year has plummeted compared to pre-covid.

I'm not denying the situation is dire, just to be clear, but it's not entirely as being made out.

37 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

There’s not gonna be a team in London unless it plays at Wembley. And even then, good luck getting fans in there because the Premier League plays on a lot of Sundays especially the teams that play in London like Arsenal, Spurs, etc. 

The Spurs stadium is set up to host NFL games. I live on the same train line and the journey is about 15 minutes traveling towards the city rather than out of it. I know a move to London is almost certainly not going to happen, even less likely using that stadium as a home ground. But I don't think I could even care enough to get a ticket if they came over there for a single game these days.

Growing up in England in the 1980s, I got into the NFL through my Dad, sitting with him through the Sunday highlight shows on Channel 4. The Redskins were the team he picked and naturally I followed. Based on age and location, I never got the experience many of the forum members here did, but I felt the excitement and one of the best memories of my young life was being able to stay up to watch Superbowl XXVI as an 11 year old, squeezed into an Art Monk jersey I'd long outgrown.

I've been to FedEx twice, seeing games against the Cardinals in '08 and Bears in '13. To me, the crappy FedEx experience was irrelevant. I was getting to see my team at their home ground and I honestly didn't have any other stadium experience to compare it to. Both games were thrilling victories, the latter all the more enjoyable because it was a surprise trip I arranged for Dad, the only time he'd get to see them play in DC.

Although the rot started before then, the Snyder years have drained the enjoyment out of the experience for me. Of course we've had moments of excitement, but they've been short lived. He's created conditions that seem to snuff out the hope soon after it forms. With the exception of some good players who would likely have succeeded anywhere they went, there's rarely been a culture that enables players to fully realise their potential.

Dad would still watch games right up to the last season he was around for. I can barely muster the energy anymore. I choose to watch games I think will be interesting. I can't get invested in another game anywhere near the extent I could with my own team though. I do check in on the team, but I find it hard to buy into the idea that meaningful change is on the horizon. The promise of last year is fast fading. Without Dad to talk to about the games, it's even harder. The Redskins were one thing the two of us, very different people, had in common. In a way I'm glad he wasn't around for the name change. The old team I can at least relate to what we did had in common and I can almost draw a line under that past.

So, like for many of you, what amounts to the demise of our beloved team is personal. I find it hard to believe that under Snyder's ownership there will ever be an environment that enables players to thrive. Without modern day facilities, stadium and a genuine promise of the resources a talented front office would need to shape a perennially successful team, Snyder won't attract the brilliant minds he needs to turn the fates of this franchise around. It's getting harder to see where those new facilities and stadium are coming from and as others have said, as long as he's making money, Snyder has no reason to sell the team, in spite of the fact he's all but destroyed the team he loved growing up.

**** you, Snyder. Seriously, **** you.

One score game. Winner either breaches the 30-point mark or lands close to it.

I was the pessimist last week, I don't want to always be that guy.

Washington - 31

Falco - 27

14 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

So, to re-state something I've said many times on this board over the years- we have NEVER engaged in a rebuild. 

 

In a rebuild, you have to tear things down, at least a little, accept short term losses while prioritizing the long term, and trying to build something for the future. We haven't done that. Not at any point this century.

 

When you're spending big on Free Agents, spending future draft capital, investing in aging players, holding onto diminishing assets until they leave for zero return, etc, you are not rebuilding. You are trying to win now. And people often discount that because "win now" isn't for a team that's got a shot at really contending. So they think and say "we're not really trying to contend now" so they equate that with "building". It's not. It's trying to win enough in the here and now to keep fans on the hook and keep FO jobs safe. The prefect example was the Alex Smith trade. We traded a good young player and a good draft pick for the right to pay a ton of money to a middle of the pack 34 year old QB. Did the team thing that would help them contend for anything? Doubtful. But they thought it would be enough to stay in the .500 range and in position for a possible lucky playoff berth or two over five years or so. That was the priority and it's not any kind of rebuilding.

 

Last year they had a chance for a really quick, small rebuild. At 1-5 approaching the trade deadline, they had a choice- deal some veterans who won't be part of the long-term for some draft capital, free up extra cap space and take the one down year for a higher draft position, or they could chase a miracle 7-9 playoff berth, They chose the latter. And, for what it's worth, it "worked". But again, it was the opposite of rebuilding. 

 

People, can, and will, defend that approach. And that's fine. We can keep talking about those 7-9 types of seasons building the "culture of winning" that we've been hearing about for two decades. But it's not rebuilding, no matter how many times people want to complain about the "constant state of rebuilding" that we hear about all the time on this board. You can't have one of those if you never actually try to rebuild. 

While there's plenty there I agree with, including that they've never actually torn everything down and started from scratch (which for me starts with a GM with a vision for the team hiring a coaching staff aligned to that vision and a scouting team that can identify the right players), it's not the only approach. It may well be the approach this team needs to take, but the number of teams who take this approach are relatively few and results far from guaranteed.

In recent history, the two teams that spring to mind that have done this are Cleveland and Miami. In the former case, we're seeing the benefits and even if they're at their ceiling as a team, I think as fans of this team we'd take where they are now over where our team are. The jury's still out on Miami. I suspect their fate is tied to Tua and it's not going to pan out. How many of the current dominant teams have got to that point by taking a similar approach though?

Washington has done a much better job of valuing draft capital in recent years, although I'm sure 3-4 more picks in the first 3 rounds over the past couple of drafts would have made a difference and is really something we're yet to see. However, to say they've had the opportunity under Rivera is, to me, something of a fallacy. He did trade Trent (point absolutely correct about reducing value of our players in this case). Who else do you propose would have brought in decent capital from last year's roster? I'd say Scherff and Moses, maybe a DL but that's about it. But consider that most trades in recent history in the NFL yield picks in rounds 5-7 and no team traded for OL between the start of the season and the trade deadline last year.

The best option for acquiring good draft capital would have been trading out of the #2 spot, assuming there was a trade partner. However, a pass rusher is considered a key building block alongside LT and QB and a highly regarded one was available. It's hard to fault that without knowing there was an offer in the table that would have given the opportunity for a proper rebuild.

Not looking to fault you, just to discuss. Would like to hear some counter arguments 🙂

25 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Dont worry guys the name change will make us better, it will give us reason to to buy in again till about the first half of the first game in 2022

There's a part of me, it's not a small part either, that thinks the unveiling of the new name following the end of the season will just be another disappointment in a deep catalogue of them. Just another punch in the gut to follow on from what will be a disappointing season.

What's left of the optimist in me still wants to be presented with an exciting new team name that I can buy into, accompanied by tangible plans for a state of the art stadium and new facilities which, once built, sparks a renaissance for the team.

Let's face it though, every promising thing this team has done since 1991 has been snuffed out quickly. Even those talented players who have stuck around have not been supported by the rest of the team. There have been fun moments, but few were sustained and only for a season.

Even the best talent at any position in the organisation will only succeed with the right resources and support around them. That starts at the top and I've seen enough to believe that until Snyder is removed from the equation, nothing will change.

Watched the buffalo-miami game yesterday. Tua was having the same kind of day as Fitzpatrick was against the chargers. Have to be concerned about protecting Heinicke as Cosmi and Leno have not been good and the Bills generated a lot of pressure. Reassuringly, Brissett actually managed to generate some offense, but the turnovers (including on downs) had a big part in the shutout. So I have some faith that Heinicke's mobility will help.

I sadly think the Bills are going to deliver a beat down on us and it's going to be painful to watch.

Heinicke has earned the right to be the starter until such a time as he proves otherwise. I think he's earned himself a reasonable leash at this point and if he continues to move the ball and put up points, he'll only extend that. For all the frustrations last night brought, few  could be placed on him.

The two play drive was exactly what you want to see out of a quarterback, only fair to acknowledge the excellent timing and ball placement on those passes considering some high passes in the first half (I get that sometimes that's where the ball needs to go, but some were needlessly high but at least still within grasp). I hope to see more passes like the two on that drive as his time under center increases and fewer off target ones (again, I get that all QBs have some like that each game).

One thing I did like was how he didn't lose momentum on that last drive despite the frequent disruption. That's the way it should be, but I'm sure we've seen otherwise with other players at QB for this team in these barren years.

Speaking of which, I've been given false hope enough times to not straight up guzzle down the kool aid. I can't help but root for the guy, though.

45 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

I wish more people had this opinion.

We've had so many years and decades of QB futility (with a couple exceptions) who mostly could not accomplish what you stated. And every fan was depressed because of it.

Now we apparently have one who can do just that. And are we going to be unhappy just because his passes aren't pretty ?

Can we be grateful for what we have, and the traits that have been so hard to find over the years ?

If he gets a chance to start for a while, and ends up winning games for us, even though it's not pretty, can we appreciate that ?

If we keep looking, or keep waiting for the perfect QB, we will be waiting for a long time.

 

I do try to stay level headed 😁

Just bear in mind that this isn't akin to finding the perfect soul mate on a personal and emotional level and then complaining that they ain't much to look at.

This is asking your starting quarterback to possess some of the most critical skillsets that pretty much all of the most consistently successful NFL quarterbacks possess. That to me is where most of the concern lies. Of course, there's many elements that add up to ensuring the ball keeps ending up in the hands of your receivers, but being able to drop the ball to exactly where they and only they can get their hands on it and/or exactly when they're open makes up a big part of that.