Rexx1240

So what division do you consider Manny to be great??

Tyson has multiple championship victories at the weight division he settled in. Manny settled in a welterwieght and has 0 legit championship wins in his division. There's your difference.

This could get interesting lol.

I respect your opinion as well. I respect DM's too. My stance will never change tho. One thing you're right about you could technically asterisk everyone's resume' but not nearly as much as Manny's. I will even say Manny could be listed as a great simply based on his accomplishments but his resume' will forever be tainted. The difference between Manny and everyone else you mentioned is that those guys all have legit championship wins at the division they decided to settle down in. Manny has 0.

Lol I would love to see that compilation too. In an interview with Stephen A a couple days before the fight, Roach predicted a 9th round TKO for Manny and was confident enough to even wager with Stephen A on air, a pair of Tom Ford shoes. That short interview alone was enough to let me know Roach was really clueless coming into this one. He even said Mayweather would come into the ring weighing 160lbs. Even the most casual fan knows how ridiculous that sounds. Roach based their whole game plan off of Floyd's legs being "shot" and once Floyd proved otherwise there was absolutely no plan B. Now all that trash Roach was talking was doing makes him look really, really dumb. Manny wasn't talking, Floyd wasn't talking, Roach was constantly in front of a camera talking about how bad Manny was gonna make Floyd look. They got taken to school.

No I was NEVER going down that road. Never once pulled the "undefeated" card. No need. Also Marciano isn't even considered one of the ATG's to me. I've followed this sport my whole life and once aspired to go pro myself. My stance was never that Manny didn't have a good career. My stance was that 95% of the big fights on his resume' have an asterisk beside it which to the opinion of a lot of experts make his career overrated.

Calling it a day, my argument is ridiculous.

Sighs sometimes with you it feels like I'm literally talking to a damn lego block.

I lost?? LOL!! Stop man. I said his career is garbage in comparison to Floyd which it is. You have proven absolutely nothing on the contrary. I broke Manny's entire resume down and you have nothing to say on Floyd's. Nothing. So I'll say again, Manny is a good fighter not great. Manny is overrated. His career is overrated, his resume' is overrated, his trainer is overrated and his boxing skill is overrated. Like him or not Floyd is the superior boxer with the superior resume'. If you wanna say I loss, cool LOL. But you know the truth. No evidence towards Floyd's resume' yet continue to bash with opinions. I'll just drop it here since according to DM I've already loss. A damn joke.

No sir, wrong again. For your information he won lineal championship belts in 4 weight classes by either beating a paper champ Like David Diaz or a vacated title but he NEVER held the belts. He himself vacated and kept moving up instead of defending. I can go further into detail if you'd like....

Notice I said AT THIS STAGE. He didn't always fight like that but he was always a defensive minded fighter. Back in the day he used to engage a lot more but if you're looking for him to just stand there and trade, not gonna happen. Thats what UFC is for, not boxing. Also if he's forced to fight then he will. Perfect example would be the Cotto fight.

Honestly you probably could, he wouldn't care. He would hit u just enough times each round to make sure he steals them and get an easy W. At this stage Floyd doesn't care about style points, just easy pay days. False. Go check the compubox one more time. I asked first so as soon as u answer mines, I'll answer yours.

Just for the sake of argument I'll retract that and say Judah isn't a HoF. That way we don't even have to debate it. Would love to but don't wanna get off subject. I really want those questions answered bc I'm dying to know how you will spin that ****.

Great post dude. But this is what I want to say about the Bradley fights. When Manny first fought Bradley he was coming off an absolute WAR with Provodnikov. A war where Bradley was forced to see several different specialist bc of vision problems and possible brain damage. On top of that, Bradley had never fought above 140. These facts played right into the hands of Roach and Arum bc he fit their "criteria". Even tho Manny loss that fight on the cards, we all know it was a robbery. But even with the pre-fight factors, he couldn't beat Bradley convincingly enough to avoid the gift decision. Also Bradley injured BOTH feet in the fight and still was able to make the fight competitive. The rematch was the only legit win. Bradley had just made easy work of Marquez so the fight was greatly anticipated. Now even tho I don't understand why Bradley was completely ignoring his corner and the game plan to go for the 1 punch KO early, but hey it was a legit win for Pacquiao.

DM let me ask you something.. Leading up to this fight you made a claim Pacquiao wins by KO and you stood by it. Not saying that you were supposed to back track on your prediction but you NEVER even made so much as a slight mention of Pacquiao being "unfocused" until AFTER he loss the fight. That seems a lil suspect bc you claim to have noticed it well before, yet you never said anything. I would respect the stance a bit more if you would have even made a hint to it pre-fight. But doing it post fight just isn't credible at all. I put it on the same bologna meter as Manny's injury announcement AFTER the fight without even a slight mention of it BEFORE the fight.

Zab as a HoF was a reach and is debatable. Also I don't literally think his career is garbage but in comparison to Floyd's yes, yes it is. That's all I was trying to get you to see. This two were never on the same level but casuals like you allowed the media and Arum to trick you into thinking Pacquiao is something that he is not. If u break down Manny's resume' as I did above then u see his career isn't as impressive as most people think. You're fooling yourself if u think no credible analyst has made these claims and it's just me. U are once again either very uninformed or u choose to turn a blind eye like u did the article about Roach u quoted above. Also yet and still, you can't even answer the damn questions.

Lol. Two very important questions in regards to their respective careers and your inability/refusal to answer makes evry one second guess if YOU even truly believe it or not. Listing their accolades and accomplishments in this instance only proves detrimental to your argument and further strengthens my stance on the subject. OVERRATED.

Now that I've trumped you regarding Paq, I'll add in two for Roach as well. 1) How would u respond to the quotes Roach has made about carefully matching his fighters to guys at disadvantages. 2) How many champions has Roach produced who started their careers with him?? So that's two questions for Manny and two for Roach. You'll struggle to answer and my point is proven.

Answer the questions. If u cant then your last post actually proves my point more than your own..

Tell me why Manny has NEVER won a unification bout ever in his career and also why he has NEVER been linear champion of ANY division?? Like I said, garbage career, trash resume', overhyped fighter, and overrated trainer.

Exactly, so drop the bs.

You damn skippy it's different. Floyd fought Cotto at a high point in his career AND at his natural weight. Manny fought him, like most of his big fights, at a vulnerable moment in his career and weight drained him. Yet there is no difference?? LMAO

Easy. Just off the top of my head I'll say Corrales, Hatton, Judah, and Cotto

In case you though I made that up about what Roach has gone on record saying: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/361365-manny-pacquiao-and-the-truth-trainer-freddie-roach-exposes-pacquiao They actually choose fighters and create a handicap for Pacquiao to make him appear, to the casual fan, as greater than what he is. HE IS NOT THAT GREAT. He's a very flawed, above average fighter, period. His career has not been nearly as impressive as Floyd's. You listen to haters who say "Floyd aint fighting nobody, blah blah blah" but as I said, it's not his fault he makes these guys look average.

How is any of that opinion?? It's fact, all of it. Just bc they climb in the ring doesn't mean a fan can't call it for what it is. THEY can't use the excuse but WE sure can. Manny fought the weakest competition possible to get up in ranks, fact. Manny avoided 135 and 140, fact. All of Manny's biggest career wins have been against guys either coming off losses, weight drained or both, fact. You claim Paq was rearranging faces and Floyd dodged him yet the deal was done with a 50/50 split but Mr Face Rearranger refused to prove his face rearranging was all natural, fact. Roach has been on record saying they wait for just the right time to fight guys either when they're old or they make them come down in weight, fact. Floyd makes guys EARN the right to fight him. Yet Manny will jump in the ring quickly with guys coming off losses. Fact. Manny's career has been a carefully matched joke. Only casual fans think he's great bc they don't really understand the true politics of the sport.