RonArtest15

you don't use the amnesty on a guy making 8 million a year. You save it for a max level player who doesn't pan out (which happens all the time in the NBA) No need in dropping money off the books when we aren't going to spend it on free agents.

---------- Post added January-12th-2012 at 02:37 PM ----------

no....the salary match got loosed up even more in the new CBA. Also, you could trade away one expiring contract for multiple other players adding up to that expiring you are trading. I don't think anyone will trade for Rashard's contract. I think we end up waiving him next year and taking the 10 million dollar cap hit rather than keeping him, buying him out, or trading him.

So if there are no takers for Blatche via trade, what then?

SM....I think Davis compares VERY well defensively to Marcus Camby when he came out of UMass. Says a lot about Davis, because Camby had 2 years up on him. That being said, his frame will allow him to get stronger, but no where near the level of Dwight Howard. Dude has a ridiculous upper-body. Anyways...

Let me ask yall...assuming Blatche won't be moved (and on the heels of him going up to NYC to see a shoulder specialist today), is the ideal scenario to use the amenesty clause on him in the summer of 2012, and then try to find a trade partner who would want Shard's expiring contract? If the Wizards could find someone to take Blatche off their hands and keep that amnesty clause in their back pocket, that would be amazing. I don't think the clause should be used on Shard though. I think the team (as bad as they are) can tough it out with him on the roster for the rest of the year. I have a feeling that SOMEONE will want that contract going into the 2012-13 season.

*Randon, but Kevin Seraphin looks HORRIBLE. His agent did a hell of a job putting that clause in his contract about not playing in the D-LEague. Dude looks like he'd hardly get burn at Montrose Christian. He's really....REALLY bad. Just a space eater. Waste of a pick, IMO.

Who exactly is comparing Davis to Dwight Howard? They are two ENTIRELY different players. If anthing, I think Davis projects well to Marcus Camby, but with a higher offensive upside.

Chicago blew up the team after drafting Rose. Only Noah and Deng remained from the 2008 team.

Sure you want good support cast for your superstars but Wall has to do more heavy lifting. Wall should have gotten stronger and learn how to finish at the rim. It wouldn't matter if he can't shoot given how fast he is.

Rose has NEVER played for a below .500 team in the NBA. Think about it. Bulls had an actual plan, and it worked.

The Wizards problems go well beyond Wall getting stronger and just finishing at the rim. The young man can only do so much. It's coaching and the culture around the team. It's not conducive to breeding any sort of winning with the current roster. The FO needs to step back and re-evaluate how they're doing things. Keeping Flip, at the detriment of your team, JUST to save 7 million is stupid. This team is going no where with the leadership in place and something needs to change ASAP.

You just gotta get lucky and land a transcendent player. As a Bulls fan who suffered through the post Jordan debacle, it took over a decade to get Rose.

Still up for debate if Wall is that player.

To be fair, guys like Williams, Rose, CP3, Rondo, etc. ALL had better teams around them when they first came into the NBA. Wall was thrust into a leadership role too soon. He was amazing last year, but it's glaringly obvious that he would have benefitted from having a veteran PG as a mentor.

All of this needs to fall on EG. Seriously. In thinking about it over the past couple of days, it's a shame in how he's formed this roster.

As far as Flip. The guys have tuned him out. That's his M.O. in EVERY stop he's made in the NBA. Towards the end of his time, players stop responding to his "teaching." This is no different.

I love the Wizards, but honestly...I'm all for them losing every game from here on out until there is a major shake-up. I'm not going to be happy if Flip trots Shard out there for ANY PT tonight (he should be cut). It's a slap in the face, and I know he'll do it. He's got no backbone. Blatche should have been gone after he raised the same stink last year (refusing to play). It's a losing culture here in DC and the roster is filled with, well, LOSERS. I hope the FO realizes what they have with Wall. All it will be is memories when he choses to go elsewhere in a few years via Free agency. Honestly, I wouldn't blame him one bit.

Amnesty can't be used mid-season...

But Shard should be released ASAP.

I'm not weighing in against you on Larry Brown, but the team we currently have won't be the same team in 2-3 years no matter who we hire as next coach. If it is, we'll all have already quit on Ted Leonsis' era.

I see 3 pieces that I know I want to keep that long and I see no reason why a Larry Brown wouldn't be able to help them... (aside from bailing on them after 1-2 seasons.)

With whoever you hire, you'd want some sense of stability with a young team. Larry Brown is a coaching nomad who would most likely leave or QUIT after a year or two. Is that who you really want leading the troops? On top of it all, he's in his 70s. The stress-level as an NBA coach is high enough as it is...couple that with trying to get a VERY young team like the Wizards back to respectability, and you're left with a gigantic task that may be asking too much of him. As I said before, I think he's an awful fit.

You mean when he took a young (the type of team he doesn't relate to right?) Bobcats team with limited talent from 35-47 then to 44-38 and into the playoffs the following season?

Then after he gets canned they go back sub-.500 and out of the playoffs?

I don't think ant reasonable basketball fan is really gonna blame Brown for the 1 year stint with the Knicks.

Hell yeah, especially for a team that has a lead guard with limitless talent surrounding by a bunch of chuckleheads that don't understand the game and lack discipline.

You're right, but I can dream.

Maybe its my wishful thinking but I think John Wall is enough to make any coach think about giving this team a go IF they put a decent FO in place.

As someone who was living in New York (and following the Knicks) during Brown's tenure, he's JUST as much at fault for implosion as the players. They couldn't get him out of there fast enough.

Another thing, what makes you think that Blatche, of all people, is the type of player Brown would want to coach? I don't see it. He gets the most out of veteran players with GOOD work ethic and b-ball IQs. A Blatche/Brown pairing would be a disaster from the start.

I guess we'll agree to disagree. I want NOTHING to do with Larry Brown. I think he's an awful fit for the team we currently have.

Larry Brown is a crumudgeon.

And I'm not gonna sit here and argue media perception.

But its kinda far fetched to say he doesn't mesh well with young players since the NBA is filled with young players and he's had success virtually everywhere.

You can think whatever you want.

But, when it comes to situations like that I'll side with a coach like Browns over almost any NBA 'superstar'.

Also, in the grand scheme of Larry Browns career do you really think only winning a Bronze with a relative bunch of directionless superstars is an indictment of his coaching abilities?

Is every coach that didn't win Gold a bad coach?

Is that the point you are trying to make?

Larry Brown's coaching achievements overwhelmingly out number his failures that I don't even think I have to go into them or do I?

I'm not going take anything away from Cassell to state that I think Larry Brown is a better coach then him for any type of team.

My second choice after Brown would be Jerry Sloan.

What's Brown's coaching track-record since 2005? That's the man you want leading this team? No thank you. FWIW, Brown butting heads w. Melo/Lebron/Wade in the Olympics perfectly captures how his abrasive style isn't necessarily a good fit for a young squad.

I'm not going to say anything about Jerry Sloan, but it would be nothing short of a miracle if he'd actually agree to coach this team.

*SM...in my initial post about Love, I said "currently." Yes, it's based off of the 7 games he's played in, but I've acknowledged the small-sample size and totally expect his #'s to dip. But he's made a TON of progress between what we saw last year and what he's doing right now. Plenty can change, but I have no problem saying he's the best 4 in the NBA at the moment.

*And no offense...there is nothing to be desired about Amare's defense. He's horrible. Plain and simple. If he ever committed being a quasi-competent defender, he might realize that the Knicks would have more success. Same can be said of Melo. Those two are so infatuated with their #'s and offense but totally neglect just about EVERYTHING on defense. Chandler was brought in to be an anchor, but it's going to take more than him. I'm not the biggest fan of the Melo/STAT pairing to begin with and I think it's only a matter of time before these guys start bickering, D'Antoni is fired, and the whole thing implodes.

Exactly! Don't you see you're essentially arguing for the same conclusion as I am?

Love is like Randolph in Memphis--not a franchise caliber player. He's a very good player, and All Star, and someone who can be a core, complimentary offensive weapon on a contender.

He is not a franchise player though and you explain a function of that--you have to cover up for some significant weaknesses for him to keep him from getting exposed by other guys at his position. For a true franchise player, that's not the case. LeBron, Carmelo, Rose, Wade, Kobe, Deron, Dwight, Dirk, Duncan, Durant, Garnett, etc. These guys can't be exploited by anyone at their position on a consistent basis and all of them have some sort of freakish physical quality that makes them unstoppable in some way. They're elite or were elite in part because of their physical gifts. Love is excellent and highly in spite of his physical limitations.

When is the last time there was a franchise player in the NBA who had below average physical tools for his position? Thirty years ago? When a 6'4 shooting guard was huge?

This is the NBA. The physical profile matters more for basketball than it does for all the other sports leagues combined. That's why scouts and GMs sell out for physical tools and potential.

Re: Dirk, by the time Dirk was 22, he was in the playoffs and has proceeded to carry the Mavs to 11 straight playoff appearances and an absurd number of consecutive 50 win seasons. Kevin Love wasn't even the regular starter on his team until he was 22 and the Timberwolves have mostly been bad so far.

And Dirk was an MVP long before he got the team support to win a championship with guys like Chandler, Marion, Butler, and Kidd. Plus he probably should have gotten a ring in 2006 if the refs hadn't all of a sudden decided that looking intently at Dwayne Wade constituted a foul. When Love wins an MVP, I'll change my tune.

And Dirk isn't a great defender, but he's actually a decent one and has always played good team defense + given trouble to post scorers with the size of his base and his length, both of which are significantly greater than Love's.

They're not a ready comparison. Dirk is a legit 7 footer. Love is 6'8.

You're missing my point. I brought up Z-Bo in comparison to Dirk...saying that their ineptness on defense is masked by the fact they have stellar OVERALL units around them. THIS is what is going to benefit Love and he needs a stronger defensive front court. Moving Williams and Beasley will be the key to helping this team get over the hump.

Why?

I have no idea if Larry Brown does or doesn't want to coach again.

But if he did who would be a better coach to turn a team around?

Larry Brown is a curmudgeon and is notorious for not meshing well with younger players. Shoot, he couldn't even get the best out of Lebron, Wade, and Melo in the Olympics a few years back. He's better suited for a veteran-laden squad. We need a coach who can grow with this team as well. I'd like to see Sam Cassell get a shot if Flip is (hopefully) canned.

Amare Stoudemire and lockdown defense in the same sentence???? Oy vey.

C'mon man...this is getting really sad. You're throwing a bunch of stuff out there.

And you keep throwing "championship" out there with names like Chris Bosh. Last time I checked, Bosh was 1/3 of the best trio of players in the NBA, one of whom has a ring. For the 3rd time, you have anomalies like Dirk and Tim Duncan, but for the most part, NO PF is going to take a team on his back and lead them to a title.

As for Kevin Love, I agree that Love is nowhere near a championship level #1 option. The problem with Love is what happens once he gets in the playoffs - will he keep opposing bigs from going off defensively? Will he get his numbers against elite defenders? Will he not be a defensive liability because of his height and lack of length? Those are the questions you have to ask with Love.

If he gets to the playoffs and he puts up 26/11 against elite competition, then you can surround him and Rubio with big, long, strong defenders and a great defensvie C and have hope. But if he can't? Then forget it.

They are good questions, but they're all based off of hypotheticals. He's done his thing in the regular season and I'll be more than curious to see how he performs in the playoffs.

Another thing, Dirk's defensive liabilities were very well hidden due to the overall strong defense that Chandler/Marion supported him with. It's not fair to Love to single him out like this when Dirk didn't do everything on his own. Minnesota needs pieces to the puzzle. A trade of Derrick WIlliams will bring those in. You give Love an excellent defensive minded 5/3, you'll see him continue to thrive.

It's like Zach Randolph in Memphis. Look at the success he had with the excellent team defense he had around him. Z-Bo couldn't stop a period in a tampon factory, but those liabilities (like Dirk's) were masked due to the overall team strength.

Yes, Dirk can shoot over everyone....but there is no one better in the NBA at getting second-chance shots than Kevin Love due to his IQ and positioning. And because he can do that better than anyone else in the league, he presents a problem to whoever is defending him. On top of it all (and like I said before), due to the fact he can stretch the floor with his 3pt shooting, he's a matchup nightmare. You don't have to just worry about containing him in the post. He shot 41% last year from 3 and is up to 42% this year. I don't get the Love slander LOL....And when exactly did Dirk become a "quality defender?" When he as 31-32 years old? He's got close to 10 years on Love, and with the amount of work that Love puts into his game, that aspect will improve as well. I think he's the best 4 by a WIDE margin in the NBA right now, and I think it's absolutely insane that you believe that the T-Wolves brass holds Derrick Williams in higher regard.

Pretty much. I'm not sure what he means by saying Derrick Williams has more upside than Love. Kevin Love right now is bar none the best PF in the NBA.

Last season he averaged 20 and 15. Adding six more PPG is not all that surprising for an improving dominant player.

This franchise will be LUCKY to draft anyone who turns out as good as Love has.

The undervaluing of his skill is amazing. You can replace the name 'Kevin Love' with 'John Wall' in sm's post and it would read out how an outsider probably views Wall. A guy who you can't win the championship with blah blah blah. You pair a dominant PF with a dominant PG and surround them with good and smart players, that is a championship caliber team.

On top of it all, if you compared both Love/Dirk at 23 years old...you could make a case for Love being the better player. And if his career can shape out the way that Dirk's has...well, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he DOES lead his team to a finals appearance or two along the way. Yes...I do think Love is THAT good.

He's a 6'8 shooter with a soft touch, good footwork, passing skills, good strength for positioning for rebounds around the rim, and a high IQ. That's how he puts up his numbers. But a long, dominant athletic PF will always shut him down in the post and force him into a perimeter shooter. And he'll never be able to defend long, quick PFs.

He's not a franchise caliber player because he's limited. So is Rubio for that matter. The true franchise caliber players do not have those kinds of limitations. The TWolves will never win a championship building around Rubio and Love. Maybe they can if they get a true difference maker to be the top dog. They're complimentary players to a true superstar. I think their ceiling is as poor man's versions of Nash and Dirk.

Funny thing is, you can apply what you just said about Dirk....and he now has a ring. Any 4 that can stretch the floor is a match-up nightmare. Doesn't matter if he can't defend long, quick, PFs. Give him a good defensive-minded center, and his deficiencies aren't nearly as glaring. I don't think we'll see eye-to-eye on this, but I think you're 100% off-base in your assessment of Love.

SM, I think you're really discrediting how good Kevin Love is. I wasn't too high on the guy coming into last year, but he proved me wrong. This year (granted the sample size is small), he's gotten even BETTER and taken his game to new heights. He's a beast in the post, and now he's added a beyond-reliable 3pt shot to his arsenal. Let me ask you, because you said he's not a PF who can carry a team to a championship...outside of Dirk and Tim Duncan, who are the other PFs who have led their teams to finals victories? Barkley didn't, Karl Malone didn't, Garnett/McHale had PLENTY of help, etc etc....he's elite now. However, outside of a few anomalies like Dirk/Duncan, I don't think what you said is being entirely fair because it's a RARITY for a PF to put a whole team on his back and lead them to a championship.

Minnesota knows that they have something special with Love/Rubio. If anything, Williams is the one who will be expendable because he COULD bring in another piece of the puzzle via trade because of his own upside. T-Pups are setting themselves up pretty nicely for the foreseeable future. IMO, there is no way they let Love walk and he'll be the face of that franchise for the next 10+ years.

You can make a case for Kevin Love being the best PF CURRENTLY in the NBA right now. Yea, I know he has an impending free agency decision looming, but if anyone is expendable on the Minnesota roster, it's Derrick Williams (in comparison to Love). No way he's going to be dealt unless he makes it 100% clear that he has ZERO intentions of re-signing.

I think who ever loses this game tonight will have a new coach by Monday. I love the Wizards, but I hope this free-fall continues. I just want Flip/EG/Blatche gone and for this team to start from scratch with the RIGHT leadership from the coach to the FO. Honestly, I wouldn't even be the slightest bit upset if Sam Cassell is named interim.

+1

I wouldn't be surprised if statistically, this squad so far is off to the worst offensive start in NBA history. This offense reminds me of the putrid play you see in NCAA games.

It really sucks when you think about it. I look at it this way:

Think of yourself working a 9-5 job. You're at the job for 2-3 years, and have had little-to-no growth professionally. You still go about your business, but if you can't see yourself advancing your career, what do you do? You start exploring your options and looking elsewhere. This is what I truly believe Wall's mindset is right now. We all know how competitive he is and how much he hates losing. What's the plan? What exactly can this team do to become competitive? Indy and Philly have seemingly become up-and-coming teams in the East. THAT is where I want this team to be. Not a laughing stock, which we are now.

We're also kidding ourselves to think that Wall will stick around if things don't get better quickly. No loyalty in the "new" NBA. There may be a mantra of "patience" or "rebuild," but if things don't trend upwards VERY soon...we'll be right back at square 1, which is where we are now. There is A LOT of pressure on the FO, Ted, etc to get things right....there is a small window of opportunity and it will close if things aren't done correctly.

*On top of it all, next year's FA class is weak if I remember correctly...I'm not sure what can be done realistically to get this team competitive. We're light-years behind squads like Chicago, Miami, New York, etc....also, in regards to Wall...elite PGs like Paul, Williams, Rose, etc have NEVER had it as bad as he does with the Wizards teams of the past two years that surround him. He may look at his peers and think about what things could be elsewhere. I hope that's not the case, but I wouldn't blame him one bit if he bails (if things don't get 100x better).

Ted won't fire Flip because this is exactly what Ted wants: a complete rebuild. When you do that, you get performances like this. People forget the Capitals were terrible for a couple of years too before they finally broke through. It took a few years worth of draft classes though, and unfortunately for the Wiz, Wall is no Ovechkin. Ovie from day 1 was an elite NHL player. Wall is probably not even top 10 at his position right now(though I still like his upside).

Caps were a struggling team under Glen Hanlon until he was fired. Not saying the Wizards would have the same kind of turn around, but Flip is CLEARLY not the right choice of coach for this "rebuild." Honestly, I'd love to see Sam Cassell get a shot in the interim. Who knows...maybe we'd have a diamond in the rough like Frank Vogel is in Indy.

This is so hard to watch. These games are not even close and the team looks so confused on the floor. There is horrible spacing and little-to-no movement. On top of it all, certain players like Crawford and Blatche should have had reduced minutes, but keep getting PT for some unforsaken reason. I'd much rather see those minutes allocated to Shelvin Mack, Singleton, etc...we know that there are going to be struggles. At least let the young kids play and get some experience. For what they lack in ability, they'll make up for with desire/hustle. I can take losing...I really can. What I don't like is the piss-poor effort I'm seeing out of "established" vet (non-plural for a reason) which is sucking the life out of EVERYONE on the court.

I don't. Wall's shaky play is part of the reason we're losing. His offensive management still has a ways to go. It was better last night, but he still took too many bad shots and turned it over too much.

---------- Post added December-29th-2011 at 01:16 PM ----------

Wall is no coward. He'll draw people to him before he leaves to go and be someone else's #2.

I dunno, man. He wears his heart on his sleeve and it's easy to see that he's DISGUSTED by some of his teammates - with good reason. With this new era of "super-teams," I wouldn't be shocked in the slightest at Wall leaving after his rookie deal (if things don't get better quickly).

Granted the teams are constructed differently, but Derrick Rose has NEVER played for a sub .500 club. Chris Paul, never had less than 37 wins as a starter...it goes on and on. If this team doesn't trend "up" quickly, Wall's decision to stay or leave might not be as clear-cut as we think.

At least w/ Semin, he never says anything in English to make me dislike him more than I should....Blatche on the other hand, Ugh....

EASILY my least favorite DC athlete EVER. And yes, that includes Haynesworth.

Wall looked out of sorts on defense last night...like, REALLY out of sorts. Maybe it's just nit-picking, but I expect greatness from Wall.

You know who was running the point last night in a stark contrast to John Wall? Ricky Rubio. Just like I said with Wall, it was only one game. But, WOW. Dude was flat out amazing. His court vision was off the charts. Seeing things well before gaps opened and delivering passes w. pin-point accuracy. He was playing at a controlled pace...which is something Wall needs to work on. Letting the game come to him rather than flying up the court and trying to do everything on his own. As a team, the Wizards might have the lowest collective b-ball IQ in the NBA. Maybe Rubio's teammates/system is just better than what we have here...but he was making things SO easy for his comrades. We all know that off of talent alone, John Wall is 100x better than the next closest person on the roster. Again...slow things down and let them develop instead of trying to force a square peg in a round hole. We'll get there...there will be improvement. But there are going to be a lot of ups and downs as the season goes on. Blowing a 21 point lead is inexcusable. A lot of the blame obviously falls on the shoulders of the players, but Flip needs to have some of that blame as well. It might be drastic, but what harm would it be in starting Chris Singleton the next game and have Shard come off the bench? I'd like to keep Singleton on the floor as much as possible (reminds me of a much more athletic Bruce Bowen...with a WAY higher upside). Defensive pests like him need minutes. I don't care if he's a rookie. Let him learn and make his mistakes while in the flow of the game. The Wizards will be rewarded in due time because of trusting him so early in his career. If I'm flip, I'm putting Singleton on Joe Johnson for as long as possible.