Hopefully he turns out to be a moderate/centrist.

OMG THE END IS NEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

/hyperbole

20 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I'm with you. I have fought against the application of such words in the past. I remember when libs called George W. Bush a Nazi and I tried to shout them down, saying it was inappropriate and ill fitting. Same thing when conservs called Obama a Nazi. To be honest, I'm still a little leery of calling Trump an outright Nazi, but his rhetoric, his scapegoating, his support of, his quoting, his using Nazi propaganda, his use of Nazi separation tactics, and his use of Nazi style interment camps makes me really nervous.

Was FDR a Nazi for interring Japanese-Americans? Nope. But if the conservative media starts repeating it enough, yes he was. Same on the left, if you call people racists enough, pretty soon doesn't matter if its true or not, they are (because we humans like to blame the "they"), and anybody who aligns one iota politically speaking with them is one and their the enemy too, not to be tolerated. That's my point. Some of the posters on this board are masters of inflaming other posters they align with or trolling. I know a guy in real life, cares deeply for the unborn, nice as can be, loves people of color and advocates foster care, but all his emails use words like "extremely" over and over. Makes everything he doesn't agree with seem like its the worst work of the Devil himself. Drives me nuts.

There is no denying that Trump's admin plays right out of the Goerbbles playbook though.

Controlling the narrative and flow of information has always been key to controlling populations. Now we are in an age more saturated with information than ever before and that makes it almost infinitely more difficult for the average person to critically parse it. On top of that is social media, where rhetoric and buzz words/phrases shape other's opinions. Words and phrases like racist, extreme, leftist, commie, Nazi, ripped away, etc. get sometimes into the social consciousness. Sometimes it is a right application, other times its not because it is used to inflame only.

4 minutes ago, Busch1724 said:

 

Hence why the lack of investment in education is so glaring. The lack of investment in our public education system, in my opinion, is the root cause as to why we are having many of the issues that we are experiencing as a society. Obviously, it's a much more nuanced and more in depth issue than just education, but the fact is the level at which we all communicate with each other is linked to a dumbing down of our society. 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you (I don't have a full college degree HA! ) but are you saying that not enough people are getting higher ed? What about the stuff I hear about too many college grads, burdened with overwhelming debt, not being able to find a job relevant to it? Or the fact that you have a GOP governor in MD setting aside $15 million a year for tuition help to incentivize lower income (<$120K single parent/$150K two parent combined) families to stay in state and use community college? Or are you talking about K-12?

13 hours ago, B&G said:

Liberals always want to do what feels right to them even if is against the law.   Conservatives want the law to be obeyed.  Feelers vs Thinkers.  Simple, huh?

 

I would never say always, but in many cases yes. However, as a conservative myself, I can say many of my fellow conservatives since Trump are the biggest bunch of snowflakes...more so than Bernie's Millennial minions. They take their marching orders from a narcissist who is literally unable to take any form of criticism at all and may be the second coming of Tiberius Caesar.

Just now, Llevron said:

Not sure it really matters which kid they use. 

Yeah it actually does. You can't give fundies (on either side) an inch or they run a mile with it.

I don't normally read the Daily Mail out of the UK, it looks like a tabloid. But if this is true, it means two things: 1) it underscores the importance of being careful with what you use, image wise, to further your point or cause.. 2) not being careful makes you look like a liar and gives ammo to the opposition to claim you made stuff up or manufactured a crisis to further your own political agenda or vendetta.

The little girl crying was never separated from her Mom, who claimed asylum, only in order to get a better job, and left her husband and other children behind. Ugh. And now she is the poster child for family separation. Way to go.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5869829/amp/Father-two-year-old-face-child-separation-crisis-speaks-out.html

Quote

 

The father of the Honduran girl who became the face of the family separation crisis has revealed that he still has not been in touch with his wife or daughter but was happy to learn they are safe. 

Denis Javier Varela Hernandez, 32, said that he had not heard from his wife Sandra, 32, who was with his two-year-old daughter Yanela Denise, for nearly three weeks until he saw the image of them being apprehended in Texas.

In an exclusive interview with DailyMail.com, Hernandez, who lives in Puerto Cortes, Honduras, says that he was told yesterday that his wife and child are being detained at a family residential center in Texas but are together and are doing 'fine.'

'You can imagine how I felt when I saw that photo of my daughter. It broke my heart. It's difficult as a father to see that, but I know now that they are not in danger. They are safer now than when they were making that journey to the border,' he said.

Denis said his wife and daughter were never separated by border control agents and remain together.

 

more at link.

45 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

The subtly nuanced arguments about immigration policy don't seem to have convinced this guy.....

 

No matter what differences we might have theologically or otherwise, as one father to another to applaud this man's sincerity.

 

 

This is how I have felt the last week.

Just now, Larry said:

 

Mexico will pay for it.  

 

Or we'll dump all the brown people in their country.

5 minutes ago, RedskinsFan44 said:

Trump sticks to his guns long enough to suck the whole party into this morass, will cave within 24 hours.

We'll see.

This was yesterday:

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/06/19/trump-immigration-legislation-separation-monstrosity-mexico-help-sot.cnn/video/playlists/donald-trump-immigration/

34 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Concentration Camps and Internment Camps in America is a pretty damn new thing.

 

For our generation. Not if you ask Japanese-Americans.
 

Quote

We have often been a flawed country, but we have been a country that tried to correct its mistakes and be better especially if we look at the modern United States (post World War II). I do feel this is fundamentally new and different. 

 

Elijah Cummings just quoted Martin Luther King Jr. aptly saying that "Silence is betrayal."

 

We are losing the heart of the American promise. More than half the Republican Party supports that. I would say to you that the US has been wrong before. Certainly, our use of chemical weapons in Vietnam was wrong. Our use of an atom bomb in Japan was questionable. Our Civil Rights history and prison pipeline is pretty damning. I think we are crossing a line. I think the soul of what America stands for is in jeopardy.

 

Edit: And I know that you are on the right side of this issue, Zguy. I just can't believe we are willingly letting ourselves be a Nazi nation.

 

We will see at the next election. As much as I despise the Democrat's stance on abortion (murder of children...note the hypocrisy I feel they are guilty of, but that doesn't negate them speaking on the current issue we're dealing with), I hope they win in a blood bath and it forces some sort of moderate conservative reform movement or party to either take hold of the GOP or form a new one.

Good to see Congress trying to do something and to see at least 12 GOP Senators standing against the President. People need to be held accountable, but more energy needs to be focused on doing something to fix it instead of a blame game. Solve the issue, then cast blame, Nuremberg style (I mean after the resolution, not the death penalty aspect).

29 minutes ago, Burgold said:

We are the bad guys.

You act like this is a new thing...

By the way, prosecuting asylum seekers is likely a law AND treaty violation. Can we prosecute Miller and Sessions yet?

https://www.humanrightsfirst.org/blog/asylum-seekers-wrongfully-prosecuted-border

Quote

Seeking asylum is a legal right, protected under U.S. law. Moreover, a provision of the Refugee Convention, which the United States adopted when it ratified the 1967 Protocol Relating to the Status of Refugees, prohibits states from penalizing asylum seekers for their manner of entry or presence in the country where they're seeking asylum.

3 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

They can win they just have to actually work together (Rs and Ds) against Trump.

 

So either they'll decide this is more important than their typical partisan bull****, they'll give trump what he wants to make it stop, or they'll do nothing.

As of now, Feinstein's legislation has ZERO GOP support.

2 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

So we remove zero tolerance, what then happens to the people?  And the future people?

What was happening before April?

1 minute ago, TryTheBeal! said:

When is Mexico gonna pay for the wall?

They won't have to... at least initially. First the Dem's may cave on it. Then Trump will target Mexico with something like "help pay for it or we will dump 5 million illegals over the border. Have fun." God, this is disgusting.

8 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

Disapproving of the policy is the point - He wants his wall funded (which is a major campaign promise he ran on), and congress thought they were being clever with the bill they passed.

 

Well, he's forcing their hand now. Question is what will congress do.

 

And if you still haven't figured out whether voters have a long memory or not then I don't know what the hell it is you're doing following politics, because you obviously aren't paying enough attention

 

If the Dem's cave to the heartstring-based pressure and fund the Wall, you will have a second Trump term. He is forcing them into a corner where soon they will either give him anything to make it stop or sacrifice these children and their parents in the stand against him. It really may be a no win situation for the Democrats. What seems like the lesser of two evils now (the Wall), may be bigger evil in the long run, since it will further a 2020 repeat. The art of the deal again I suppose.

2 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

That's what I see often.  Things that SHOULDNT be done.  I want to know if anyone has a proposal of what SHOULD be done.

We have no choice at this point, remove zero tolerance, and kick the can. Unfortunate downside is it likely removes any motivation to truly fix things.

5 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

Start with not breaking the family unit up.  Then go from there?  Is it possibly for a family to be detained together and sent back together?  I am still searching for an answer as to why separating the families aspect of this is necessary. 

It becomes a necessary consequence wwhen the parents are prosecuted and therefore sent to a Federal jail. The kids can't go with them, so they go to their own little prison.

5 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

Trump has outright rejected hiring more immigration judges. 

 

This is all a play to get the dumb ****ing border wall and essentially a freeze on legal immigration.

 

They are banking on getting support for their god awful immigration policy by holding families hostage. I hope no one caves to these child abusers. It would set a terrible precedent.

I feel like those who want the Wall are just taking a calculated risk. They said "there's a chance we can leverage the cries of the children"

Either way, they keep the "dirty foreigners" out or at least appear to their voters to be trying. Disgraceful.

Even Franklin Graham, who is (sadly because I love Samaritan's Purse) one of Trump's big supporters is against this.

The FAQs: What You Should Know About Family Separation at the Border

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/the-faqs-what-you-should-know-about-family-separation-at-the-border/

Quote

 

What just happened?

Over the past six weeks, immigration officials have separated hundreds of migrant families who have either crossed into the United States illegally or have sought political asylum.

 

A change in immigration policy by the Trump administration is resulting in thousands of children being housed separately from their parents as they await adjudication. The children are being kept in separate facilities and are unable to see their parents for an indefinite period of time.

What is the policy causing the separation?

Until recently, families apprehended at the border were released together and sent back to their home country. Families were typically only separated if the parents were charged with a crime. In April, though, Attorney General Jeff Sessions announced, “I have ordered each United States attorney’s office along the southwest border to have a zero-tolerance policy toward illegal entry. Our goal is to prosecute every case that is brought to us. There must be consequences for illegal actions.”

Illegal entry into the United States is a misdemeanor, while illegal re-entry is a felony. By being charged with the crime of illegal entry, the policy forces the children to be separated from the families while the adults await trial.

 

Rest at link

1 minute ago, twa said:

 

Do they need directions to their local DA's office?

 

Or are they gonna try him themselves?

Its according to their book of discipline. They have their own church court.

11 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Only if they're playing games. Republicans should be outraged and appalled for the kids. They should find this unacceptable. Period. They should stand up against wrongs. Periods.

 

When there are real wrongs being done they should not play games and hunt for excuses. They should stand up. The sportsification of this country sucks. Not everything is Dems vs. Republicans. Some of it is right versus wrong and good versus evil.

Somebody needs to hack Fox News and display real images of these camps so Trump can see them instead of photos of smiling kids playing video games which is what his staff shows him.

41 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

I thought asylum seekers were being turned away at legal ports of entry without being actually seen/heard? 

Here you go.

https://www.humanrightsfirst.org/blog/trump-administration-putting-no-vacancy-sign