IrepDC

5 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Yeah the team's best players don't blow off their assignments and leave gaping holes.  It's amazing to me how some (well one) poster seems to value Chase Young more than anyone else, including the GMs who didn't offer more than a 3rd.  

The groupthink on this site will always be biased towards hoping the team makes the right decision. You not only ignoring insights from league GMs, but creating a lie that they agreed with the move, is sad. You desperately want this to be different. I'll get back to enjoying reading the delusional takes so you're not disturbed. 

Just now, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

No I do not know that. Because you see one of us understands that next year it will be a new owner, a new GM and coach and new EVERYTHING.  For you to claim it will be the same old Washington is such an ignorantly statement to make. 

I based that statement on getting to know more about Harris. He isn't a winner. He has Embid dragging him to the playoffs and that's it. He is also meddlesome which Commanders fans should be weary of. You'll see though. Same Ole Washington. 

3 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

 

They've been drafting. The Commanders need to do the same and still can, but I'd argue the effectiveness of the players they traded versus calling their absences "holes."

 

They're only truly holes if they're consistent rabble-rousers. The lost production of either or both of them won't be catastrophic by any means. The Commanders also know they have zero invested in their O-Line and can still find players who have produced like Chase and Montez, even if I'm more upset about the loss of the latter.

Cool you think losing two of our best players isn't creating holes. Let's see how it plays out. Next Giants game alone will be hilarious because they couldn't get Saquon around the edge. Watch what happens now.

Just now, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

You have already listed all the other needs on this team. I'll let you answer that for yourself.  

You couldn't have done that with $65 million in cap room? Is Washington back to believing they can buy a team in FA? You realize most FAs dont want to play here? This is not a respected or coveted signing spot. You and I both know Washington will continue to be a joke, but at least now I can laugh at it instead of caring. 

Just now, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

You literally said 20 minutes ago "SF has a better DL than us".  So it's hard to tell if you consider this team yours or not.

 

Now how about the other points I made in that post?  Are you really suggesting they dedicate over $40 in cap next season to these 3 with the hope that a new coach can get him to commit, keep to his assignments and lastly and probably most importantly magically show him how to get the edge and to the QB instead of being run out of the play constantly?  You are really suggesting that gamble would be worth the risk?  Or maybe just maybe he is another Clowney and will never live up to his draft position, it happens all the time.  

Where else is the $90 million cap room being spent next year?

Just now, ntotoro said:

 

Philly's D-Line seems to be the one EB has schemed best for because of... reasons. I don't know why that is.

 

Chase, particularly, did not contain well that game. There was a handful of times he got moved out of a lane (a few big ones on third downs) while over-pursuing. He never got to the QB once. He's not worth the $20m a year it would cost and he'd be gone, anyway, whether by accident or design. The mistake was drafting him 2nd overall. The league is becoming more Offense-oriented and rules are favoring that, not spending $80m on your D-Line. This isn't a "You guys don't watch the rest of the league" thing, this is a "believe what your eyes tell you is happening on the field" thing.

The top two teams in the NFC have been loading up on DL and all contenders load up on edge rushers. If you weren't going to pay either DE, at least have someone in the pipeline. Now there are 2 more holes and Washington is the type of team to end up paying a 30 year old DE from another team over $20 million, but we will see. Edge rusher is definitely a hole now.

2 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Thanks for the reply.  

 

There is no guarantee a coach can "coach him up" and turn him into a player his contract will demand. And again they already have a cap hit of $30 million for Allen and Payne, now you are suggesting a cap hit of over $40 million for 3 players who to date have not been close to worthy of such an investment.. Again SF does not have this much cap money into their DL and that is your model for success.

 

Finally which team do you root for?  You have a GB logo, you alternate between "you" and "we" when discussing the Commanders.  

I was a Redskins fan. I've been on this site for over half my life. I love football, played professionally, and always followed the entire league. I watch 3 or 4 games on multiple devices every Sunday. This week I finally got tired of doing mental gymnastics to support Washington. They suck. They're chumps. When you see me speak from a Commanders perspective, think of the clueless Ralph from the Simpsons meme. When you see the Packers logo, you see a team that is thoughtful, intentional, and a that has a winning culture. I laugh at fans mocking the Packers one bad season, because the Packers are already ahead of Washington in rebuilding. This week was basically my heel turn where I can finally call out the moronic and chump nature of my hometown team.

7 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

OK let's try this again. I have spelled out all the scenarios, please tell me what you think they should have done with Chase Young and why you feel this way.  This is not too much to ask.  

With a 24 year old edge rusher who is breaking into top 10 pressure and win rates, you coach him up and let the season play out- like SF will do. With $90 million in cap room next year, and a roster full of holes, you can afford to keep one edge rusher. SF has a better DL than us and they still made the move to add more talent. Washington will end up paying another team's older edge rusher big money in FA, or using a high draft pick that could've filled another hole on DE. But I already conceded, you think it was a smart move, I think it was a chump move. It is what it is. Time will tell who was right.

1 minute ago, ntotoro said:

 

Sweat was playing well. Young had situational highlights and lowlights. You're not spending $20m a year on both guys. The deal for Sweat was too much to pass up. They don't need high draft picks or big-dollars on DE's, especially ones who don't contain the edge. The league is moving more Offensive. The new FO will determine how the picks are used. I don't see how these are holes when you'd lost one if not both in the offseason. Chase disappeared in the Philly game. Neither one did amazingly well against good O-Lines, but Chase was particularly a problem: being easily chipped by TE's, over-persuing and opening huge run lanes, being nullified by decent LT's... not a $20m a year guy. 

Philly's DL disappeared against our OL. One thing I realized from this site is that most fans don't watch the rest of the league so the standards here are really random. I also realized most fans just repeat what they hear. Sweat and Young have set the edge great this year. The teams that attempted to attack Washington's edges this year all failed. The secondary has been the problem for Washington, not the DL. But you will get to see what soft edges look like the same way you get to see what a soft OL looks like. Let's watch the improvements with Toohill and Smith-Williams since Sweat and Young were such a problem. 

2 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

 

I don't think they made up quotes, I just don't believe they came from GM's. They don't care about words, they care about ratings. I still don't see where this trade sets any future precedent. There's just nothing there to indicate that. They traded one player for whom they got an offer too good to refuse, they traded another player whose ceiling is never going to be hit, whether for medical or on-field disciplinary issues.

And from the other perspective, they created 2 major holes on a roster full of holes. It's like you had a leak in your ceiling, so you went and poked holes in the rest of the ceiling,  because the ceiling was already leaking anyway. Washington will be top candidates for edge rushers in FA and the draft now along with T, G, C, TE, LB, CB, and probably QB if I'm getting a read on Harris correctly. At bare minimum you get multiple picks per player so you can potentially fill more holes than you create. What Washington did was create more holes without getting any net gain possibilities. Two more holes. Two more picks. Both Sweat and Young were playing well and trending up also so we have no idea where Chase will end up as a ceiling. Washington fans will slander any player to justify bad negotiations. I heard the same slander of Trent Williams. When you keep getting chumped, you have to rationalize it somehow I guess.

Just now, ntotoro said:

 

So... unnamed sources. That is not a league consensus, that's not even anyone going on-record. Harris did tell the FO to do something, at the counsel of his new analytics hire. That isn't the same thing as trashing a guy going out the door. 

If you think they made up quotes from GMs, that's your prerogative. I don't see what benefits they'd have to lie. They were discussing the entire trade deadline and they don't even have personal ties to Washington. Stepping back and looking at the Commanders objectively, I'm seeing clearly how fans have to bury their head in the sand to rationalize being a league chump. To me this week showed that Washington will continue to be a farm team for real NFL franchises under Harris.

6 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

I don't care about the league consensus.  Realistically, you don't know the league consensus.  It isn't like anybody in the actual league is saying too much about what they think.  At best you're getting the talking heads consensus which is meaningless.   

 

How do you know it was Harris?  Especially the trashing the guy (and I agree that was stupid and looks bad).  That isn't something the Sixers have a history of doing.  And the Sixers, while not having won a championship, have won.  He certainly doesn't appear to be a Jerry Jones , a Tom Benson, or a Bill Veeck.

 

At this point in time, you just seem to be making things up to fit your narrative.  

1 minute ago, ntotoro said:

 

I'm still struggling with this "league consensus" bit.

 

There are opinions, anecdotes and stories, but where is this league consensus? What GM's? What teams' officials? I have yet to see or hear any FO employees of any team saying "Yeah... the Commanders got fleeced in that deal and will continue to have problems under this new owner."

 

The team wanted to move on, they'd likely lose him in the postseason, anyway and Chase hasn't been a difference-making player. There is nothing that gives any indication Harris was involved with any bad-mouthing with Chase's departure. It hasn't been his MO. That would likely be holdovers from the previous ownership who know their days are numbered.

I gave the specific NFL Network show where I heard the league consensus- the Insiders. The commentators specifically said "GMs around the league" so I guess you could say they are making up things to fit my narrative, but why would they lie about that? They also explained these moves came from the ownership so that's why I pinned it to Harris. I guess you believe they are just making up stories on the network dedicated to sharing league insights. That's your free will but don't act like I'm making things up because I pay attention. 

19 hours ago, PeterMP said:

 

I'm not sure what that means.  To me these trades weren't Washington.  When was the last time we traded soon to be FAs during the season?

 

Certainly, over the years they FO hasn't made good decisions, and even things like this draft I don't/didn't think were good.  Not getting an OL in the 1st 2 rounds was a mistake and I said it after the draft.

 

And I'm not sure I would have traded both Sweat and Young, but I think trading at least one made a lot of sense.  And if neither was willing to negotiate a reasonable longer term contract during the season, then I don't really have an issue with this.

 

Could the FO mess this up going forward?  Yes, but it also appears to me there are plenty of out comes where this turns into a good decision.

Trading one did make sense. Getting a high 2nd for Sweat was a good deal- although another 4th or 5th would have been nice. But after getting that good value, Harris had to keep making splash moves, trading Young for essentially a 4th. That was moronic and league consensus is that we made a bad deal. The slander campaign starting immediately after was equally as moronic for a team trying to change the culture. I don't have the energy to explain why good organizations don't do that. The FO didn't do this. It was Harris. First sign he is a headlines guy and not a winning team guy.

3 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I have taken the time to explain all of their options. I'll ask again, which option should they have taken in your opinion and why do you feel this way?  

 

Save the insults and answer the question.  

Where did I insult you? I have been responding and gave you evidence from other GMs to back my stance and shut down yours. If you want to believe the Commanders are doing a good job, go right ahead. No one is worried about the Commanders resurgence. 

16 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I have no idea what this even means. 

2 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

You think I don't know what it means when you said that it was reported on the NFL Network that GMs were surprised they gave Young away for a 3rd?  Now you are just trolling, be better than that.  I understood what was said, the problem I have is why you do not understand what I have been saying. 

 

You're trolling yourself. I responded to YOU stating you don't know what it means. Poor Commanders fans talking in circles trying to rationalize getting abused. The league consensus is Commanders were losers on trade deadline day. They don't call you losers when you get market value. All the hypothetical scenarios that you make up to justify creating a huge hole out of a strength is grasping at straws. I understand it's the only way to feel better about getting chumped again.

1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I have no idea what this even means.  The league has spoken, if Chase Young was worth more than a conditional 3rd it would have been offered. Now Washington is not forced to overpay for an average DE.  Lions recently traded the 3rd pick in the draft for a 5th. I didn't hear much criticism about that trade  and he did not have the same injury history..  

I already gave you a direct quote from NFL Network. You don't know what it means because you've buried your head in the sand. Packers will be picking ahead of your Chase Young pick with a pick we got for Rasul Douglas. You're the league chump.

24 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Bro. You are 2-5 and have lost to Atlanta, the raiders, broncos and beat the Saints by ONE point. Tell me all about that impeccable roster building. We picked a better QB in the 5th round than you have starting right now after trading a 1st ballot HOF QB because he was the answer....Imepccable....🤡

Packers have one bad season and you think our roster is bad. We will snag a top pick if need be and turn them into a star. We have one of 5 youngest rosters in the league. Packers timed Love's development years with the rest of the roster. Packers got 3 2nds and a 1st round pick in our two trades. We got more value for a nearly 30 year old journeymen DB than Commanders got for a 24 year old number 2 overall pick trending up.

13 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

Why does one have to end up a Commander?  If some team(s) signs them to bad contracts and the Commanders sing somebody to a reasonable contract and good contract or use the 2nd and/or 3rd picks to get quality a quality edge rusher is that also not good planning?

 

Or if it turns out they already have quality people at that position on the roster and can sue the resources to get players to fill some of their many holes you talked about?  Isn't that also good planning?

None of those things is Washington.

2 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

Which is exactly where they'd be if they hadn't traded them.  They were going to have resign them as FAs or let them walk and draft replacements.

 

Your acting like these two guys are signed to long(er) term contracts.  Which isn't the case.  They likely will have the potential to resign one of both of them at the end of the season if they want, just like they would have if they would have kept them.

If one or both hits FA and the Commanders sign them, that's exceptional planning, and I will give credit to Harris. I doubt it happens. I wouldn't be surprised if one ended up a Packer though. The rest of the league is loading up on edge rushers.

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

One of the youngest teams in the league. Good depth and youth on both lines. A rotation of edge rushers. Depth and experience at LB. One of the deepest secondaries in the league even after trading Rasul Douglas for a higher pick than you got for Chase Young. Are you kidding? Thunder and lightning backfield. Young and explosive WR room. Packers are letting Love develop or, if need be, a great team to develop a QB. You're laughing from what the Commanders have done?

3 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Gotta admit you have guts coming to blurt your garbage on another tems board when your own team is a clown show. What DC did is EXACTLY what a rebuilding franchise should do. Get picks for a player you arrent going to resign in 10 weeks anyways. Tell us all about how well the Packers have built there curent team. Nah. we will follow the Eagles and Lions way of building. A Lions team that is going to dominate yours for a decade by the way. Because they built exactly like this.

The backups have looked as good or better than the the "superstars" if we are being honest.

Packers team building is impeccable. We can break that down spot for spot. 

Lions sold Stafford high and got big return on their own draft picks. 

You sold BOTH your edge rushers for 2 picks that aren't even high enough to draft replacement edges. You got worked.

1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Yeah I went back and deleted the football knowledge part but you had already seen it, I don't mean to attack you and I apologize for that.

 

I understood your position just fine. I just pointed out, with actual figures and facts, why that opinion is wrong.  How the team goes moving forward won't change that. You can't put over $50 million in cap space into 4 defensive lineman who have shown collectively that they just aren't worth that sort of investment. Are you prepared to argue that they are?  Just how were they to "sell high" on Chase?  The market always has the last word, the time to trade him was now or never and the other teams knew this.  There is also a pretty strong opinion among league GMs (not Collin Coward types) that Chase Young ain't all that good.  

Watch Insiders on NFL Network. They just said GMs around the league were surprised we gave away Chase for a 3rd after getting a 2nd for Sweat. The only time our players aren't valued is at the negotiating table. Harris shows the first sign he gets carried away to make splash decisions. Washington better get a GM who can make decisions without Harris interfering. Sounds familiar. 

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Williams is a better player than Sweat and Young. And I'm not sure I'd take Seattle's 2024 2nd(they're a legit playoff contender so that'll be much lower in the 2nd) and 2025 5th(which equates to a 2024 6th) over Chicago's 2024 2nd, which is going to be close to a 1st rounder.

If Washington DTs had Williams stats, you would call them busts. Calling him better than Sweat and Young at his age and lack of productivity is interesting. Washington will forever be the chump smart teams can abuse.

30 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Yeah I went back and deleted the football knowledge part but you had already seen it, I don't mean to attack you and I apologize for that.

 

I understood your position just fine. I just pointed out, with actual figures and facts, why that opinion is wrong.  How the team goes moving forward won't change that. You can't put over $50 million in cap space into 4 defensive lineman who have shown collectively that they just aren't worth that sort of investment. Are you prepared to argue that they are?  Just how were they to "sell high" on Chase?  The market always has the last word, the time to trade him was now or never and the other teams knew this.  There is also a pretty strong opinion among league GMs (not Collin Coward types) that Chase Young ain't all that good.  

League GMs say that to Washington because you are naive enough to buy it. SF isn't trading for Toohill. 

1 minute ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Again they have over $28 million cap hits for 2024 on 2 DL. Are you suggesting they tie up another $20M+ and now have close to $50M in cap space on 4 player who collectively have shown they just are not even close to great?   Are you suggesting these pundits on  TV know more than the market?   The market showed what they were worth, it's just that simple.  

 

And they are not even close to premium players, I still can't believe you posted that which is why I struggle to buy your football knowledge.  .  

The personal football knowledge attacks are going to get ignored. You are trying too hard to argue. I stated my opinion and you stated yours. If the 2nd and 3rd round pick tu4n Washington around and they become winners,  you'll be right. If Washington continues as league chump, I'll be right. You are so focused on attacking my opinion that you haven't understood it. Even if you sell assets, you sell high. We sold Chase for essentially a 4th round pick AFTER making a decent deal for Sweat. You now have a huge hole on both edges. Good luck making the team better this way.

6 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Williams is a better player than Sweat and Young. And I'm not sure I'd take Seattle's 2024 2nd(they're a legit playoff contender so that'll be much lower in the 2nd) and 2025 5th(which equates to a 2024 6th) over Chicago's 2024 2nd, which is going to be close to a 1st rounder.

Williams is better this year? 

1 minute ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I don't care about your football resume, all I have to judge you on are your posts here.  You weren't just rooting for Haskins, you made a bet that he would be a top 10 QB.  You also argued that SF and :Philly load up on DL therefore so should Washington without understand that their cap situation is far different than Washington's.

 

Allen's cap hit for 2024 is $21.4 M (WFT?  His cap hit for 2023 is over $20 M)  and Payne's at $8.6M. By comparison Philly's highest cap hit for a DL in 2023 is Graham at $10, the next highest is Josh Sweat at $5.8M, in 2024 their highest paid DL has a cap hit of $9M.  Now we get to SF, their highest cap hit on a DL for 2024 is Armstead at $12M and Bosa at $11. I would argue that those 2 collectively are far better than any 2 of the 4 defensive linemen that were in Washington.   Now you are suggesting Washington pays out 2 more big contracts for defensive lineman. That would put them far above the cap hits those other 2 teams are paying our for their defensive line.  So its a poor comparison and it would be a really stupid thing to do.  

You are doing me how you do players. You remember when I was wrong, but how many players and draft picks have I called over the years? How much film have I diagnosed over the years? That's rhetorical because I know what I know. 

Washington will have to pay an edge FA big money or use a top pick on edge- with many holes already. You don't get to ignore edge rushers now. You have 2 more holes to fill and only 2 draft picks to do it. Congratulations.

6 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Again, those are the words from media members.

 

You're not a star pass rusher if you can't even reach double digit sacks in a pass happy NFL that now plays 17 games.

This is why Washington gets worked. They are both on pace to do that this year. You will continue to be the farm team for real NFL teams. Williams got NY a 2 and 5. A DT almost got as much as 2 edge rushers. Same Ole Washington. The lovable loser of the league. 

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

Your logic is flawed. League wide perception of Young among people actually IN the league was pretty low. Remember we tried to trade him around draft time too, and nobody bit. And even after a fairly productive start to the season, he still only garnered a 3rd. This isn't the Texans trading prime Deandre Hopkins for a 2nd. Fans and the media think a lot more highly of Young than those actually in the know.

 

And yes, while our DL is/was a strength, it wasn't enough of a strength to justify paying FOUR guys. You mention the 49ers and Eagles, but the 9ers traded one of their star DTs, replaced him with a 1st round pick, and that pick has turned out to be disappointing. The Eagles watched Hargrave walk away(ironically to those same 9ers)because they couldn't justify paying another DT. If our DL was truly dominating games then I'm sure we would have found a way to pay them all, but they weren't. Neither Young nor Sweat have ever had a double digit sack season. We paid the guys who have performed in Allen and Payne and salvaged some value out of the other two. Now we can allocate those resources to building a more well rounded roster. You also don't saddle the new coach/GM with a couple DEs that he may or may not want and the headache of the franchise tag or letting them walk for nothing. Give them draft picks and more cap space to let them shape the team how they see fit.

Pretty low? I watched coverage of the trade on every network and the language of "premiere, star, young promising edge rusher" was across the board. Washington is just trying to convince themselves they are rebuilding, but you didn't even trade correctly. It doesn't seem Washington understands how to negotiate. You will have to allocate those bare minimum resources to getting new edge rushers now. There's no net gain. We got 2 picks for 2 star players.