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Real NFL teams have contingency plans when replacing players so that they don't immediately create more holes. Look at how the Eagles have continued to draft OL in preparation for Cox and Graham moving on. Look at how the 49ers keep replenishing their DL. Those teams have strengths that have remained strengths. 

The Packers did something similar with Jon Runyan this year. They started rotating OL, something innovative in itself, and getting reps for Sean Rhyan to get ready. Now we can let Runyan walk, if need be, we don't create a hole on the roster, and we can still get a comp pick depending on free agency. You won't see Packer fans trashing Runyan despite him maybe underperforming either. We will just honor his contribution and go forward.

Meanwhile amateur hour over here is rationalizing creating huge holes on an already TERRIBLE roster. It's hilarious you all think that was so clever of a trade when you're aware of how the rest of the league operates. You are a farm team. Nitpicking Chase Young's play in the NFC Championship game, like Commanders fans will do this week, when your team hasn't been there in 30 years, is what losers do. 

Give yourself a moral victory because Young doesn't have to play hero ball in San Fran, though, like he was expected to here, I guess.

2 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

if you think they won't add edge players for next season, when it really matters, you would be wrong.  Again.  Games in November when you are 3-5 and going nowhere don't really matter now do they?

 

You continue to claim I am ignoring  your comments as you  continue to ignore the main point of this trade, points I have been making that you have ignored.  Keeping an unproductive player that you will lose at the end of the year in a lost season makes zero sense. You continue to live in the present or recent past and not the future. And that is really the most important part.. For you somehow it was important to have a player who can set the edge (even though Chase Young can't do that).  For what exactly in a lost season?.  .

 

What are you basing that on?  Surely not his play in SF where he hadn't done dick. Then what?  Again as I have carefully explained they would either lose him for possibly nothing or overpay for a DL who is not even good enough to be called a JAG.

 

 

 

 

 

Ironically, the Packers were 2-5, but again, losers usually have a loser mentality. Also ironic, your new GM was in the group that traded for Young. The regime that traded Young is likely done in the NFL. I have given a few examples of how you go about moving on from Young, if you are a legit NFL franchise. The Commanders, up until this point, do not make any decisions with foresight. It's all in the moment and over reaction. This move was another erratic over reaction that created more holes on the 2nd weakest roster in the league. It doesn't seem you all are understanding what I'm saying about the myriad of better ways to move on from a player, but whatever. If you were so confident, why do you all feel the need to prove it to me? Nothing you all say will change my mind so to continue bumping this thread is fruitless. 

36 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Yes, Young is playing in the NFC Championship game this week. Good for him. But he's still pretty much been a non factor for them. Its like arguing we made a mistake letting Devin Thomas go back in 2010 or whenever because he won a ring with the Giants a year later.

Devin Thomas didn't start for the Giants. Young still would have led the Washington DL in every important stat this year. This convo is silly, because if you all really believed it was a good trade, why are you watching San Fran so hard to nitpick Young? 

2 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Every piece of evidence we have shows that Chase Young did nothing in SF and it was a smart move.  It's OK to be wrong, when you can't admit it and continue to lecture others on their football knowledge, that's where come off looking like a clown.    

You are literally ignoring the evidence of the Commanders replacements. If it was such a great move, you wouldn't be literally STALKING Chase Young and watching every snap of his, while ignoring your own DE's, trying to prove it. At this rate, I expect you to bump this thread every week with a breakdown of every Young snap. After a breakup, the one obsessing and claiming to be over the other person, while stalking them, is lying to themselves. If Young was so terrible, why does it seem like he's your favorite NFL player? If he's so trash, move on. But you can't, because your team is trash and has to trash players on their way out like the bottom feeder NFL team that they are.

9 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Washington getting a third rounder for Young = bad

SF getting a third rounder for Young (they won’t) = good!

Got it.

Yes, because that's what I said. This board used to have some really good discussion...... I won't reiterate my point anymore. You guys make talking about football a chore. 

9 hours ago, ntotoro said:

 

That's like asking whether I'd rather have gonorrhea or chlamydia. His own totals are far from adequate for his draft position and what he wants for his next contract, so it was best for a rebuilding team to take what they could get and run. Let the new FO figure it out. Even pre-injury, his sophomore season wasn't one of "Let's build a line around this guy's abilities."

 

He can't contain the edge (either in the run game or short passing game) and he isn't an elite pass-rusher. 

Bosa got hit with the same block in the same game. If you just want to operate in groupthink and make empty posts encouraging one another, leave me out of it. 

7 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

You are just being stubborn as you attempt to talk down to me.  We are not talking about the Commanders we are talking about Chase Young. The guy who can't get to the QB and can't set the edge. Prove me wrong, show me where Chase Young is doing "a DE's job'. What exactly is he doing?

 

 

You have a weird obsession with him. Since you don't want to talk actual football, because we both know you can't, I have nothing else to say. Enjoy trashing a player who is across the country playing in the NFC Championship game. A game you now hold the record for not seeing in the longest time.

7 hours ago, Ball Security said:

Why hasn’t SF extended him? They can’t possibly be stupid enough to let him sniff free agency, can they?

Because they will get the 3rd for him back that the spent. They are playing chess. I can't debate with you all because you don't even understand what's happening in the real NFL.

1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Yeah to not suck. In Chase's case it's to get to the QB and hold the edge.  He can't get to the QB and a rookie WR prevented him from setting the edge.

 

I keep bumping as we get new information.  It's OK to be wrong, which you clearly are here despite your claims. The stats and tape don't lie.  If you didn't lecture me and others about your vastly superior football knowledge I may have let it go.   Niners fans have acknowledged Chase didn't work out.  Our resident Commanders hater can't do the same, 

To not suck... I am giving you an opportunity to prove me wrong that you barely understand what you're watching. You aren't helping your case. If you want to keep bumping this thread, at least provide good discussion. Otherwise, I'll just start ignoring you.

What is a DE's job on the football field?

Do the Commanders currently have players that do those jobs better than Chase Young?

4 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

The only time we heard the name Chase Young on Sunday is when he got cleared out by a no name rookie WIDE RECEIVER on a huge run.   Teams think so little of Young's ability to set the edge that they felt confident in matching up a random wide receiver.  And they were right.  

 

 

You keep bumping this thread. What is a DE's job? 

Just now, ntotoro said:

 

Yes, young is a body. It has no bearing on any other player. He's a #2 overall pick who can't even get half a dozen sacks a year and is easy to get in a semi-circle in the run game.

There's a reason you ignored the second half of my question. I'm not the one bumping this thread. Yall claim Young is a body but you watch him more than your own team. Let him be a bum in peace. Worry about your own team. Nothing you say will change my opinion about the Commanders so we can agree to disagree. 

On 1/15/2024 at 8:18 AM, Darrell Green Fan said:

I have listened to every word, all you have been talking about is the hole these trades have created which nobody is arguing. I have acknowledged your point and agreed that it left a hole.  I have also tried too explain why you are not looking at the bigger picture, you see you need to look at everything when evaluating the trades and the cap ramifications is a huge part of that.  The part you continue to ignore.   So I have carefully and painfully tried to explain this to you as you lecture us about your superior football knowledge. Your response was they have a lot of cap space so it was doable, which of course totally ignores how we have already seen collectively they just aren't worth that kind of cap commitment and how that caps space could not be better utilized elsewhere on the roster..

 

Sweat and Payne have a combined cap hit of $43 million for 2024.  Sweat just signed an extension that pays $25 million a year so that is what it would have cost Washington to retain him.  His cap hit is $25 million. So you already have $68 million tied into those 3. Say Chase's deal is $15 million a year, if he is as valuable as you claim that's probably low. 

 

So that leaves you with a cap hit of $83 million for 4 players who have proven that they are just not a great DL.  Chase has now proven in SF that without a doubt he is a pass rusher who can't get to the QB and I'm glad it's not my team that will be overpaying him.  OK so it's not 100 million but 83 million is far too much for their production.  So it would have been stupid to retain them at that cost  or to let them walk for nothing.

 

It's really very simple.  

Check the FA thread right now and see how many people are listing DE as a top get. You think that will be cheap? You think a FA is giving a discount to come here? This is why I didn't want to read your post. You'll need to spend that money on replacements anyway. Now you can stop whining and nagging me. 

2 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

 

Trying to debate the subjunctive is impossible. You can only tell when the roles are identical, which they're not.

 

Even with the limited time, there's no way to ascertain which situation would have gotten better results. The team couldn't have all that money tied up in the DL and is going to rebuild. Teams give up more during the season because they think they're a player or two away from something or get desperate with injuries. There isn't that urgency in the offseason. I really thing you're over-valuing Chase, particularly. He's a rental player at this point, just an ok one at that. He's a body. 

Young is a body. Toohill is what? Smith-Williams is what? Henry? Teams were not abusing Young like the ladder, but please go on. 

1 minute ago, ntotoro said:

 

I'm talking about the role reversal, but I think you know that. You can't debate something that didn't happen. They couldn't wait to trade these guys because of the trade deadline itself, but I think you also know that. What could Peters have done? He wouldn't have the time to make trades before the beginning of Free Agency.

I can use the Packers recent history and Commanders recent history to make a projection. You are allowed to make trades after the season ends. Trades in the off-season are common. You all seem to rationalize every dumb decision by the Commanders by making it seem like the only option.

6 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

 

You're still trying to debate something that is unquantifiable. You can't prove a negative. Ultimately, Douglas was the better, more valuable player and he has proven that more than Chase.

Commanders got a 3rd for the best LT in football. They got one 2nd for Sweat. I don't know if you watch other teams, but no one gives up assets like this for such little value. The Commanders should have waited for Peters hiringbefore trading assets because once again they didn't get proper return. I don't care to list examples, but you can lookup recent LT and DE trades for yourself.

You guys think the trades were good. Great. I think Commanders got suckered. Debating me in circles is pointless at this point, especially when you have the worst edges in the NFL now.

Just now, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

You claim I had not listened to your argument, when I did and addressed it, and now you can't even bother read mine?  I should have never given you a pass on our Dwayne Haskins bet had I know you would act like such a coward.  

You want me to be in my feelings like you are, but I'm not. Your slick comments make me laugh. You barely understand the game of football. 

On 1/15/2024 at 9:24 AM, tmandoug1 said:

Our defense has sucked for the last ten years. Chase made no difference in the defensive performance this year. Lack of, oh I don't know, linebackers and a secondary that can cover anyone. 

I'm really not understanding why you all are acting like your defense wasn't worse without Young, but whatever. Where is the Toohill thread? Smith-Williams? Henry? He outperformed them ALL combined, and he was a rotational player for San Fran. And I know that's an insult to some fans, but good teams use pass rushers in rotation. 

On 1/15/2024 at 8:18 AM, Darrell Green Fan said:

I have listened to every word, all you have been talking about is the hole these trades have created which nobody is arguing. I have acknowledged your point and agreed that it left a hole.  I have also tried too explain why you are not looking at the bigger picture, you see you need to look at everything when evaluating the trades and the cap ramifications is a huge part of that.  The part you continue to ignore.   So I have carefully and painfully tried to explain this to you as you lecture us about your superior football knowledge. Your response was they have a lot of cap space so it was doable, which of course totally ignores how we have already seen collectively they just aren't worth that kind of cap commitment and how that caps space could not be better utilized elsewhere on the roster..

 

Sweat and Payne have a combined cap hit of $43 million for 2024.  Sweat just signed an extension that pays $25 million a year so that is what it would have cost Washington to retain him.  His cap hit is $25 million. So you already have $68 million tied into those 3. Say Chase's deal is $15 million a year, if he is as valuable as you claim that's probably low. 

 

So that leaves you with a cap hit of $83 million for 4 players who have proven that they are just not a great DL.  Chase has now proven in SF that without a doubt he is a pass rusher who can't get to the QB and I'm glad it's not my team that will be overpaying him.  OK so it's not 100 million but 83 million is far too much for their production.  So it would have been stupid to retain them at that cost  or to let them walk for nothing.

 

It's really very simple.  

I'm not reading all that. You want to debate me. I don't want to debate you. You aren't saying anything meaningful. Enjoy your off-season. Go Pack! Go!

On 1/15/2024 at 7:53 AM, ntotoro said:

 

He's also a better, more valuable player than Chase Young.

If teams were reversed, Packers would have gotten more value for Young. Point being Commanders devalue everything they touch.

The Packers roster will only grow better and more confident from here. They're the most dangerous team in the league with all that youth. Those guys don't know any better and have zero pressure on them.

On 1/13/2024 at 12:41 PM, PokerPacker said:

Packers traded away a solid CB in Rasul Douglass this season.  All they managed to get for him was to move up from the 5th round to the 3rd round.

They got more for Douglas than Washington got for Chase Young. 

On 1/12/2024 at 2:11 PM, Darrell Green Fan said:

Funny my posts seem to be getting a lot of love, yours not so much.  You act like you are smarter then everyone else here. 

 

You are not.

 

We all know the holes it created. You were the only one to suggest they invest  $100 million a year for 4 defensive linemen when that group had several seasons to show they were great and they just weren't.  

That's good you are getting likes. It wouldn't have cost 100 Million, and I never once said it would, but that's why I keep shewing you off. You refuse to listen to what I'm actually saying. You are arguing against yourself and not what I said.

This is a good hire. He gets it.

1 minute ago, ntotoro said:

 

You can't have it both ways, though. You can't say the edges were weak and the team gave up its two best players (debatable, especially in the case of Chase), even though they weren't that good with  those guys, then say it's lazy to point out the obvious.

It's lazy because you clearly aren't watching film. You aren't watching how often the edges are set. You aren't tracking the impact in the run game. If you were, you'd understand the difference before and after the trades. Most fans only understand sacks and that's cool. It's their most important Stat. They also have other jobs. I am not saying your edges are a huge weakness now, just because. They were not a huge weakness before. I don't get how anyone could debate I'm wrong, but no one wants to acknowledge how BAD the edges were after the trade. Everyone was too bust watching San Fran and Bears DEs, apparently. Wonder why?

2 minutes ago, ntotoro said:

 

I get what you're saying, but the D was that bad with those guys. The edges were ok with Sweat, awful with Chase. Liked to have kept Sweat, but the offer to a rebuilding team was too good and the team isn't gonna' spend $100m in a D-D-Line just because. Young, couldn't care less. Things turned out good for Sweat and good for the return. New FO, new staff, #2 overall pick, the team needs assets for rebuilding. Who cares about spending money or draft capital on stuff when the team would have either spent money or lost both of them, anyway? They got draft picks in return. Sweat got paid. Chase... well... nothing yet.

 

This isn't the Snyderskins anymore, though. This team is a promising destination because of the new ownership and the fact that anyone interviewing knows they'll get proper support, not Dan Snyder. I don't know if you have been following the last several days, but the stink of Snyder is done.

 

Ok... that's a bit much.

This is one of my least favorite fan narratives. "We were bad with them so they must not be valuable." It's lazy. You have to be able to see the trees from the forest. It's also why you never get value for any of your pieces, because you habitually devalue everything you touch.

And I already made the concession, that IF you trade the DEs, you get better compensation. You get at minimum 2 picks for each player. Getting 2 picks for 2 of your best players is laughable. Packers would've got 5 picks minimum for Sweat and Young. Commanders are a farm team.

19 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I tagged you because we had a long debate about this.

 

So you think they should have paid a big contract to an edge rusher who had 7 1/ 2 sacks and 25 tackles last year and has averaged 4 sacks a season or simply allow him to most likely walk with no compensation.  If they felt he would be as valuable as you believe he is a free agent and they can get him back and still retain the pick they received.

 

Sorry keeping him just does not make any sense.  

You just had one of the worst defensive seasons in the history of the NFL. Look it up. Commanders fans are the only fans in the league who think every players new contract will break the market. I can't debate with you when you have that misconception. That's not how the rest of the NFL works. Washington has to overpay because everything about this team is bottom tier. I advocated keeping both Sweat and Chase because you're about to spend that money,  or draft capital, on those positions anyway. A bad team creating holes on their best unit. You now have more problems, because teams were not carving up Young on your edge, the way they carved every DE after the trade. You seem to only understand stats, but your Edges were getting WORKED OVER after Young and Sweat left. Your ONE team strength is now neutered. But you saved salary cap? Team has a LOT to learn about how real NFL teams are built.

On 1/9/2024 at 6:13 PM, Darrell Green Fan said:

Chase Young played 9 games for the Niners.  He recorded 10 tackles, 2 1/2 sacks and as we saw above continued his pattern of quitting on plays.   Had they retained him this is the production we would've gotten out of him in a lost season. 

 

Then they would either lose him for nothing (no guarantee of a comp pick as they will be active in free agency) or overpay for a pass rusher who can't get to the QB and managed basically 1 tackle a game on a DL that gave him plenty of opportunities given their talent.

 

You're proving the point of my post. Washington fans are lost. You stat watched another players team while your edges were LITERALLY the easiest attack point in the league. Chase Young STILL would be the best DE on your roster. There is a reason you know every stat he had, but zero of Toohill, etc etc stats, because they were irrelevant. You bumped this thread because YOU know you need 2 DEs. Chase Young is happy playing in the playoffs like the Packers.  I told you the Packers were much ahead in their rebuild before it was popular and known like it is now. I told you the Commanders now have 2 huge and exploitable weak points on the defense, in addition to the weaknesses they already had on the 2nd and 3rd levels. Nothing I've said was wrong. Why are you tagging me in this?

Commanders edges are an afterthought 

The Allen vs. Williams reps have been entertaining 

The Commanders OL can't be trusted to get a yard against the 49ers DL

Best coverage rep for #13 all year?

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I hope not. 
 

I’m okay with him saving himself. I like the guy a lot and think he’s a good QB…

 

But if we pick top 3 and don’t go QB we can trade back… Which is really good for the future.

 

I still want to see Sam with a rebuilt OL. If he fails, you have the OL in place for the next swing at QB.