nuposse87

My issue with Okafor is that he is too redundant with Nene, both are excellent defensive bigs but with okafor being a better rebounder but being considerably offensively (although, he isn't bad). The thing is they don't compliment one another as well as they ought to. They both should be living in the post. Whenever Nene/Okafor end up taking an elbow or FT line jumper we're not maximizing their abilities. Ideally Okafor should be a back up at around 6-7 mil....but I'd rather just like draft Patric Young this year in the 2nd round and hopefully let Okafor teach him the next season. Nene really should be moved to 5 going forward, asking him to guard the new stretch 4s is a bit much and he's about as strong as most centers in this league. Millsap would pair well next to Nene I think, I don't know how to make it happen though.

Wall, Webster (first half) and Okafor were like the only wizards player to show up for this game. Nene showed up late. A SG and stretch 4 would go a loooooong way for this team. Good thing Beal is one less thing to worry about. We need a bench pretty desperately though.

Teams like CHA might be willing to trade back in this draft. Pick swap+Seraphin/somebody would absolutely be worth if they were to offer us a chance at Noel/Porter.

Maybe even the wolves would, as I think we'll probably supplant them eventually as well.

So our record before and after wall came back is just a coincidence?

His coming back mostly fixed depth on the roster, he's an average PG at this point. He just makes the 1st/2nd units less stable. I'd attribute most of our victories to the increased production from Beal, Okafor and the unusually good play outta Ariza and Webster. Wall does have some imprints on our victories, but he's probably the 3rd or 4th best player on the roster. Nene and Beal are better then him, and Okafor is arguably better as well. Wall can fix that, but he needs to start busting his ass. He should take a page out of JR Smiths book (never thought those words would ever be said) and quit the night life and earn that max money. He needs to put in A LOT of work on the offensive facets of his game.

---------- Post added February-28th-2013 at 02:41 PM ----------

I think Otto Porter is going top-3. Got a ringing endorsement from Jim Boeheim last night when he said he should be NPOY.

Also, if we were to look at a center, I think I like Kelly Olynyk's fit for this team more so than Alex Len. I think Len will be drafted before KO, but I think KO is going to be a much better pro.

I'm honestly hoping Porter's combine scorers come in a little lower than I think they will, he won't last past the 4th pick at the rate he's going.

Wall wasn't the only guy out there who sucked tonight. Seems like a knee-jerk reaction to say he needs to earn a starting role.

An example was made of Crawford because of his toxic disposition on/off the court.

truthfully the only thing I care about is what we get from them on the court. And yes other people did suck tonight, but other people aren't anointed franchise players like Wall. I haven't really begun the question Wall in the Wizards future until now. He says the right things, supposedly he does the right things, but the return product we're getting doesn't seem worth it. He can turn it around, lots of games left, but the franchise ought to consider other options if this keeps up. I'm a Wizards fan before I'm Wall fan. I want him to do well, but it seems less and less likely it'll occur. He's far too inconsistent.

He was bad tonight, but did you forget how awful we were with AJ Price as the starter? Despite his performance, this team is better with Wall on the floor. He's 22 and we're going to have to live with his ups and downs. I'm not overly concerned, but he needs to be better.

He does too may stupid things when one facet of his game isn't working. They need to stop babying him, it's his 3rd season in the league, he shouldn't be making as many cerebral mistakes as he does. Everyone else on the team gets playing time by earning it, he certainly isn't earning a starting role as of late...even with how bad Price is as a starter. Its one thing to make an example of scrubs like Jordan Crawford, but the "stars" on the team need to be brought down to earth as well.

If we had Porter for that last possession, we woulda won. The coaching staff oughta bench Wall. He needs to earn his starting role. We need to stop coddling him.

Which is why if we have a shot at Porter we'll probably immediately take him. He can do exactly what we need from the SF position while adding some playmaking.

I kind of wish we did swap picks with another team before the trade deadline. I see this team finishing with 30-32 wins. Probably enough to knock us out of getting porter, especially considering his value is actually increasing.

I'd honestly sign Nate Robinson next season, he's been solid for he Bulls. He has his "WTF" moments but he's been pretty good, and with Kirk Hinrich I assume returning+teague and Rose coming back he might be able to get the playing time he wants here. If Ariza continues his steady play he may do us a favor and opt out.

There are a lot of things are going to factor into next year. If we somehow manage 30 wins then we should be noticed as a better FA landing spot. DC itself is becoming a better sports town as of late so it isn't like we're a small market.

What I think could be instrumental is how Nene's health is next season. Once okafor is either delt, or allowed to expire, if Nene is healthy...I think he could fill the void at Center for a year or two.

A future frontcourt of

Porter

Milsap

Nene

would be ideal IMO. The guy clearly has trouble with stretch 4s. A lot will be predicated on his health going into next season, if he's fine...just move him to center.

I do like Okafor though, its nice to have a competent center on the team.

Then we just gotta hope either one of Booker/Vesely/Singleton/Seraphin becomes worth a damn. Booker is rounding back into form, but he just needs to get healthy.

I care about his athleticism because we have a catch and shoot 2 and 3 at the moment. We needs someone that can beat a defender and shoot off the dribble. If he can't jump and move laterally well he'll see a major drop in production against longer, stronger, faster NBA defenders... especially at the SF position. I agree that he look great, this is really my only concern. He stays down to block shots, moves off the ball well, shoots with great arc and accuracy, and rebounds. I just want to be as sure as possible that his game will translate because he oddly plays below the rim and seems kind of slow at times.

I don't think his lateral quickness is bad, it seems fairly standard. There are valid gripes about him as a leaper I suppose. Like Zeller, the combine could potentially move him 2-3 spots based on his results.

Don't care what Porter's vertical is...dude can flat out hoop. We NEED him on this squad. This guy is not raw or a project. He's NBA ready right now. I know the 2014 rankings have *Noel and Muhammad going 1/2 (possibly), and this may be an extremely bold statement...but for this Wizards squad, I'm taking Porter with our pick REGARDLESS of where we draft and he should be #1 on our draft board.

If we're picking number 1, I'd easily draft Noel, without a doubt, his upside is ridiculous. However, if we get like...the 2nd pick, i'd trade back a little, and draft porter immediately. Porter between 5-10 is better value then anyone between 2-4 IMO. He looks NBA ready, and has a tremendous feel for the game, just like Beal. I think he could be a cross of Deng and and like....Batum...with a floor of Shane Battier.

Did Otto Porter dunk the ball at any point during today's game? I've still not seen him dunk a basketball and I find that odd for a guy his size and length.

He did, in the first half if I recall correctly, he didn't get very high up but then again he was just trying to get the bucket it seemed, nothing highlight worthy. I'd definitely welcome him onto the team. If he measures our to have better athletic scores then people think though...he may go a little higher...and if we keep winning games...ah **** we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

Ted wouldn't care, remember point #10 of the "10 point plan"

well the only hope the wizards have is that his obesity gets the best of him, which is terrible cause I don't think Ted is THAT bad a person, but proving to be a rather incompetent owner. We're ****ed, for a long time coming.

we should all mass spam his blog with a link to that fire ernie blog article.

---------- Post added February-22nd-2013 at 02:11 PM ----------

Say what you want about Vinny, at least most of his moves made sense. Most of EG's moves have been some head scratchers to say the least....

Vinny drafted guys who could have performed, I'd say he failed in fostering institutional control that would have maximized the players' abilities (hiring/firing coaches etc..). EG sucks phallical objects in every way possible.

Financial flexibility? Not like they're gonna pull miracle sign someone worth a damn in the offseason. Seriously, Ernie needs to contract ebola.

^The prolly coulda still got some crap on 1-2 year deals that would allow them to tank next year. In no way is the magnitude of both moves or lack of moves the same, but the incompetency involved seems equivalent...which is surprising cause Ferry ain't a bad GM.

This almost as bad as ATL not trading Josh, they gonna lose him for absolutely nothing.

Ernie deserves ebola, that is all.

this is getting really redundant, but I'm suborn and currently bored, so I'll continue to play along....

I'd rather avoid studying today so I'll play as well, I'm sure we're both equally stubborn.

I never said all you need is size in the NBA, I said size matters....as in big guys who don't completely suck are gonna get paid! You think Rashard Lewis and Shawn Marion would have gotten the contracts they had gotten if they were 6'6....no..of course not. You keep pointing out his "offensive inefficiencies" when the fact remains that he is not inefficient. He currently has a 46% FG average....that isn't great, but it isn't bad either. As Steve pointed out earlier....Smith could definitely grow as a player and improve playing along side a PG like John Wall. He is the perfect match...athletic forward who can get up and down the court and play above the rim......everything Vesely was supposed to be, but a player who can actually contribute.

Regarding size, it can only help in the NBA, but if your game is predicated on a style it doesn't hurt to be slightly oversized or undersized for a position. Millsap is a 6'8 PF, with decent standing reach, but nothing spectacular, but his game is nice. He's fluid, efficient and is able to be a factor. I don't think Josh Smith uses his size well. If you say he is a SF, he should be living in the post all day, just posting up smaller SFs, but he doesn't. He wastes his natural ability. Regarding Vesely, while he a bust for where he was drafted, he still has time to become a "role player" in the NBA. If Josh Smith was Vesely's ceiling, i'm not sure I would have drafted him, AK-47, sure.

I probably shouldn't have called you a burger flipper...that was a bit out of line. But there is definitely a difference in watching a game on TV and in the arena...especially when you have good seats. Ask anyone on here that have used my tickets (like GACOLB) you can definitely see more when you are at the game.

TY, and if you took any offense to my comment about your tattoo, my bad (not a fan of em, but to each their own, prolly my pompous side speaking). I've sat "pretty close" a couple times but honestly, the only opportunity it provides is players off the ball or that are leaking out. With HD experiences I do think live sporting venues do lose some of their utility (for football probably more).

Paul George and Nic Batum both have lower FG% than Josh Smith...those are two of your "elite" SFs right now (and I agree with you), but it just goes to Show that Smith isn't as inefficient as you can make him out to be. Right now, on a Wizard's team that struggles to put the ball in the basket....I'll take a guy who will score me 18 ppg at 46% ALL DAY! LeBron James was a terrible shooter for most of his years in the league....he just got good at posting up and shooting within the last year. Josh Smith is no LeBron James, I'm just giving an example of a player who relied on athleticism and was successful at scoring by just getting to the rim; his newly developed post moves and outside shot just made him that better. Another example of someone who didn't learn to shoot until his latter years is Jason Kidd. Kidd couldn't shoot worth a **** early on...and he has become a pretty effective outside spot up shooter later in his career. Smith could very well have found the stroke and shoot 35% from beyond the arc for the rest of his career...only time will tell.

I believe I've already described how Batum is more efficient, the same applies with Paul George regarding TS, eFG, Ortg, 3 pt % and doing it all on lower usage. Both are also younger, and could conceivably get better. The problem with equating him to LBJ as an example of someone who got better...is that LBJ is HOF level...He had/has desire to be GOAT. You can't say that about Smith, I'm sure he tries, but...LBJ, Kidd, these are some of the true greats. Smith doesn't have that glow about him. If he changes, kudos to him...I'm not sure I want to take that bet though. I'd rather be cautious with the Wiz given how asinine some of our moves have been in the past. Regarding his shooting, I think he'll come back down to like 32-33...which is still an improvement for him...but nothing to really write home about.

back to free throws....coaching has a big impact on this. It was no coincidence that the Wizards went out and signed the guy most famous for working with players on free throws and having Bwood's percentage go up 20%...that was no coincidence. Some guy named John Wooden once said that if a player was able to do something once, they could no doubt do it again....it's just about having the right coaching and proper motivation to get it out of them (I paraphrased of course). If Smith was an average FT shooter....his TS% would be through the roof.

He takes 4 FTs a game, assuming he made one more I don't think he'd break 52% TS. I believe a player his age should have a very high TS (like 55+) to warrant the money he wants.

give him a good FT coach...he'll be back up into the 70s.

Clearly the FO of every team he's been on since that season have missed that memo lol.

for a second here...I'll pretend that you are correct about him being inefficient (which he isn't) when it comes to scoring. He is still a very good rebounder and passer and he is elite on defense...I'll take him 10 times out of 10.

He is a good rebounder for 4, but not elite. He gets assists...but turns it over quite a bit too. His offensive game just need to be curtailed. He's a 6'9 Jordan Crawford who knows how to play D...not a bad player...but a max player? Even if the market will pay him that doesn't logically justify him making that money.

Melo has actually played more 4 in his career than 3. NY uses him primarily as a 4 and so did the Nuggets (The Nuggets used to play the lineup of Nene/Melo/JR Smith/Afflalo/Billups a lot. LeBron was a 3 for most of his career, but Miami has found him to be more effective at the 4 (which I actually think is a much better position for him....creates more match up problems when he brings a big man out on the perimeter...and he can dominate just about anyone in the league in the past anyway) This is how he had that 13/14 night a couple weeks ago....he scored just about all those points in the paint posting up and on layups. I will agree with you that they are "traditional" 3s....but that isn't how their teams are using them.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anthoca01.html

every year but this year has been listed as SF. I'm sure he plays small ball when it matters, but I tend to think he spends more his time at the 3 (melo that is).

I'll give you the 3/4 argument though. It does make more sense for Josh to play the 4, but he could absolutely play the 3 as well. I like the lineup of Okafor/Nene/Smith/Beal/Wall.....that could be one of the most dominate defensive lineups in recent history, but it's looking like Okafor will be involved with the trade if it does happen....so we'd have to shift Nene to center (which is fine) and put Josh at the 4.

I'd much rather trade for Millsap. Him and Nene would provide good floor spacing.

apparently MIL is a front runner for him...which is a massive relief. With any lucky he could go to the bucks, completely **** that team up and leave the 8th spot open for like a 37 win team. That would be our most hopeful scenario in any Josh Smith trade.

Size always matters in basketball. That's why guys like JaVale McGee and Brenden Haywood get 10-12 million per year. Josh Smith is one of the best athletes in the NBA; he is very fast and agile/athletic for a guy his size. He can defend the majority of current NBA players....that's a huge asset to have on a team.

Yah cause then guys like Haddidi should be so awesome. You can be tall as hell, but if you can't put the ball effectively in the basket what good are you to the team? McGee sure as hell isn't warranting his contract thus far, nor is hibbert. I'll give you he is a good defender, but I'm not sure his offensive inefficiencies can be masked by his D. If he played under control and ONLY attacked the basket, sure...but he doesn't.

You obviously aren't much of a basketball guy, haven't been to a game, or maybe you are just plain dumb (do you flip burgers for a living...just curious) because anyone with any kind of basketball knowledge who has been to a game knows it is much different than watching on TV. The cameras don't capture the whole court and all the players at once. When you are at the game you can see plays develop...just like hockey and football. You can watch someone's off the ball movement on offense and defense. It makes a big difference.

First of all, no I do not flip burgers. 2nd of all, there is no difference, you get a more holistic picture of the court, but that also depends on the viewing angle from the TV. Again this isn't a way to objectively judge a player. Having a wizards logo tatted onto you doesn't make you an expert on basketball, just makes you look weird.

a tweener is a player who doesn't fit in as a PF or a SF....doesn't have a true position. Too weak/small to be a PF, or not quick/athletic enough to be a SF. Josh can play both positions at a high level. You don't have to be an outside shooter to be a good SF in the NBA. It definitely helps, but it is not a must. MKG can't shoot and he went 2nd in the draft this year. He is an elite defender and has a high motor....he creates matchup problems and can get to the rim.

To play SF in today's current NBA you need to be able to shoot. At least to be an elite one. He has the size of a big SF but he doesn't have the offensive skill. He's about as athletic as a SF from the outside, but he's just getting older. If he could shoot .35% from beyond the 3 than he should be out there most the time, but this is the only year he's been doing that, and it also is his contract year...kind of skeptical to me. MKG is 19, he actually can improve his shot, he's in that stage of his career, Josh Smith is 27, he is what he is. Some basketball knowledge you're exuding.

it's ignorant for you to think he is bad in the FT category now and that he will not improve. Bwood raised his FT% almost 20% one year because of the shooting coach we employed that year....but you already know that since you watch 90% of games.

If there was a trend upwards, you may have a point, but look at his FT % the last three years. It has gone steadily down. He use to be 72%, but the last two years have been bad. Why should I believe he'll revert back? Oh and what good is it for haywood to shoot 70%+ one year and then go back ****ty shooting? Seems more like an aberration in his FT shooting career arc to me than a trend.

Anyone who can score 17-20 ppg, pull down 8 rebounds, and get 4 assists per game is an elite player. I'll take 8 boards from my SF all day....although he might drop one or two boards if he was primarily a SF for us. You call his TS% bad....but he is barely under the league average. He is just about average when it comes to TS%...and he will be above average once that FT% comes up.

Still not sold that he can be full time SF, so 8 rebounds from him doesn't do much for me. He isn't putting up bad PER stats as far as PFs go....but If I'm going to throw 8 figures to anyone, I'd rather bring in Paul Milsap. He's efficient and a solid player. So you want your "elite" player to have an "average" TS%? You want your elite player to have below average efficiency and be ok with it? How does that not seem like a bad way of justifying that? He'll be slightly better than average if he can fix his FT %. Max money players should be a bit better than average with regards to TS.

None of the guys mentioned in your top three are primarily SFs.....LeBron has been used primarily as a PF this year and last year during the playoffs...they typically play with a smaller lineup so they can utilize all their best players (which are all wings). Carmelo Anthony, like LeBron, plays PF for his team as well....same type situation, they aren't deep in the front court and usually play with a small lineup. Durant is better (obviously). Pierce is just about done, he used to be better, but at this point I wouldn't say so. I agree with you on Batum...I love his game; he is the epitome of a do it all SF, but I find it interesting you know Gay and Smith for being "inefficient" players, yet Batum shoots 42% from the field and you don't seem to have much of a problem with that.

Quickly, LBJ and Melo are 3s that CAN play 4. They've always been traditionally been 3s, and LBJ has always excelled mostly as a point forward than a power forward. I've always thought in Melo's case, he's most useful when there is a stretch 4 next to him, to suck a big defender out (If Amare can actually become that, they might actually present an issue for Miami). Pierce is better right now, but it'll change very soon I imagine. Batum has a higher career 3 point percentage, is asked to play heavy minutes on a POR team that has no depth, has a better assist to TO ratio, WAYYYY better TS, Considerably better eFG%, better oRTG% and he has all these qualities on less usage then Smith, and he's 24. He could conceivably get better in the coming 2-3 years.

Gay and Smith are inefficient, your subjective "analysis" doesn't change the facts. Try again.

your reading comprehension sucks. The only comparison I made between LeBron and Josh was their size...and that was spot on.

In this case size doesn't matter, especially when you're trying to equate Josh Smith into being a "good SF". He's very unskilled from the perimeter. Career wise, he isn't a guy you want anywhere but the paint, nor is he fast enough to blow by truly elite SFs (not anymore at least). You can say my reading comprehension sucks or w/e, but the fact is your argument wreaks of incompetence. Stop making bull**** comparisons.

I find it hard to believe you've watched 90% of all wizards games since Jordan...but that's another argument. I've I stated before...I go to a lot of games (both college and pros) you see a lot more when you are at the game. Not to mention my girlfriend could watch a million basketball games, but that doesn't mean she would know what the **** she is talking about when it comes to the sport. You can watch all you want, but that doesn't make you a subject matter expert.

I don't give a **** whether or not you believe don't try to insinuate that I'm liar and then brush it off as if its point of actual discussion. I'd venture to say almost everyone on this board who lives in the DMV area has attempted or gone to a game, as I have, and you don't see anything different than you do on TV. I hardly doubt anyone goes to a game and watches one player off the ball the whole ****ing game. Don't bring your GF into this, I don't want to bash anyone who is undeserving.

Quit talking out of your ass and actually back up some of your assertions regarding players other than simply saying "player X is good because of some subjectively arbitrary quality Y that I observed." Gimme a ****ing break.

Smith isn't a tweener....he is a legit 3 that can also play 4. he is a much better fit at 3 because of his quickness, athleticism, and size. I never called Rudy Gay efficient...I said he was a good player, and he is. 66% ft. shooter is bad, but as I said before (you must have missed it) is that ft shooting can be improved with coaching.

Ummm he is absolutely a tweener forward. 6'9 with a standing reach similar to B. Griffin's if I'm not mistaken. He's better as stretch 4 who can't shoot (which is odd in itself). His athleticism isn't good enough to cover up the lack of shooting skill he has from outside (although career year this year for him, but also contract year, not too surprised). Not to mention he's going to be 28 in '13-14 season (which I imagine would be the first season we'd see dividends from acquiring this terrible 6'9 walking mediocre treadmill of a player). He's 27, his FT shooting isn't going to get much better. Remember, he's shooting like close to 50% this season. If he gets up to 60% again it isn't like we've rid ourselves of his liability. I'm sure he has coaches working with him on this, so it isn't something you can bank on.

I don't love to have a guy who can't shoot free throws..but if they are dominate at other things like Defense, rebounding, passing, and also a pretty good scorer....I can get over that.

He doesn't dominate the boards, he's got a 1.3:1 Assist to TO ratio, while at least not below 1, isn't exactly dominate. 17.5 points a game on bad TS on high usage isn't a good scorer. He's a scorer, but more like corey magette, who, I'm sure...nobody wants.

again...I never called Gay an efficient player, but he is elite at his position.

you aren't getting a guy like josh Smith for 8 million a year....players like him make at least 12 million a year.

elite? Well, LBJ, Durant, Melo are all clearly in the top 3. Paul George would be next, as he's played tremendous ball in the last 35 games, not to mention his all NBA caliber defense. I'd say Pierce and Batum come next, Pierce is clearly on a downward trejectory though, but we're just talkin this season. Batum plays excellent D and does a lot considering POR has no bench, not to mention he's been fighting through injuries this season. The only thing "elite" about Rudy Gay is that he's hyper athletic. The problem is his shot selection and efficiency, which is the same regarding Smith.

not if you already have a few pieces together like we do. The Wizards with Josh Smith are contenders in the NBA next year.

We have pieces, but putting smith on this team is like trying to fit a Square into space where a circle goes. He'd better suited on CLE with Kyrie being a threat from 3 point land. Smith isn't going to get much better as a player, so thinking his game is going to expand seems like foolish thinking. Most guys are what they are by his age.

Oh and regarding Cousins, he is a headcase, like Smith, but at least Cousins has monstrous upside. You can't say that about Smith, he's in his physical prime, but that doesn't mean his game is about to morph.

What position does LeBron James play? answer....he plays the 3 and the 4....Josh smith is the same. Just because ATL played him primarily at the 4 doesn't mean he can't play primarily at the 4 for us.

Josh Smith is a VERY poor man's LBJ. To even mention him in some sort of analogous fashion proves the incompetence of your argument.

You prove my Favorited point in this portion of your argument though. You are very similar to many other people on this board....who look up box scores and stats (don't watch the games) and think you are a subject matter expert when it comes to basketball.

I've watched 90% of the wizards games since Jordan was on the team, I watch most any ESPN/NBA TV/TNT and playoff game when I get a chance. I've seen a sufficiently large sample size of the games themselves. You aren't seeing anything I'm not seeing. Your eyes are more than likely not better than mine. You've coached? Who gives a damn if you've coached if you think Rudy Gay and Josh Smith are efficient players. That just means you are terrible at interpreting stats within their context. Your arguments are entirely subjective. Saying Player X is "good" doesn't make him good. Especially when the futility of ATL and the stats say otherwise

I watch games, I've coached, I've played....I know the game of basketball. Both Josh Smith and Rudy Gay are good players. They are large 3s who can slash and get into the paint to score. That is what efficient scoring is. The reason Josh has a "low" TS%...which it really isn't that low....is because he is a very bad free throw shooter. Brenden Haywood is living proof that a shooting coach can completely turn around a free throw percentage. I could teach a dog how to shoot a free throw....it's all about muscle memory and consistency. It can be fixed.

Josh Smith is a tweener, Rudy Gay is a hyper athletic 3 who could never become efficient. Slashing and getting to the paint mean **** when you can't convert. And FTs absolutely do matter, if he can't convert, he's a liability offensively, YOU should know this, YOU have coached. He's a career 66% FT shooter, and actually gotten WORSE over the past two years.

so you continue to look at numbers, and I'll continue to watch the games and decide who is good and who isn't that way.

I'll continue to look at the numbers AND watch the games. You're trying to make sense out of the senseless. Josh Smith and Rudy Gay are not efficient players. Do they have some utility? Absolutely, but not at their asking price. If he could be had for like...7-8 mil a year, then yes, he is worth it...but lord knows there is some stupid GM that'll give him what he wants. And then I remember who runs the show here in DC.

---------- Post added February-15th-2013 at 05:09 PM ----------

[/color]I'm having an argument on RealGM about Shabazz vs. Otto Porter. I'm arguing that Shabazz is better than Porter and a couple of guys are arguing that Porter is ahead of Shabazz. To me this seems obviously ridiculous and Shabazz is clearly a better prospect than Porter, and further, it's not really that close. One month ago, I think there would have been universal agreement for my side. What happened to Shabazz and Porter in a month?

Thoughts?

Shabazz is still the better prospect IMO, but I could see a rationale in taking Porter. It also depends on value. Shabazz isn't playing like a number 1 overall pick (not to say he's playing bad). Porter is hitting his stride though. I think Porter at like...8 is better value then Shabazz at 2. Say for instance we land the number 2 pick, and we could ascertain the number 7/11 (depending on how PHX ends up) by trading back while giving up a player (say seraphin). Who would you rather have:

Shabazz+Seraphin

or

Porter+Austin (beginning to like his game as of late)

Although it might be for moot if we go in the direction of Noel.

dude scores 17 points per game and pulls down 8 boards from the SF position...he is definitely worth the max in a mid market team.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/smithjo03.html

He's played the 4 position for the last 6 years. He CAN play the 3, but would you want him to? He's a career .288% shooter from 3 point land, that is BAD.

I'm not saying that Wall isn't important for our success, but our roster is wayyy better than Clevelands...are you even trying to debate that? You think thompson is better than Nene?

Nene is better than Thompson right now, that is obvious, but look at thompson's stat line: Per 36: 13-10-1.5-1-1, on 53% TS and on 17% usage. The best part about that is his increase from last year. The kid has really worked on his game and is going to get better. Nene's stat line is better, but if you asked me, would I rather have thompson on his salary, or Nene...I'd go with Thompson, his production isn't bad enough to warrant him a cast off or something. Oh and in Jan/Feb he's averaging like 15-10. Which is essentially Nene.

Smith is definitely a 3...and he can play PF in small ball lineups. He is also worth the max in my eyes. He could be the second best player on a contender. I do agree that he isn't going to get much better, but with coaching and an elite PG to play with...he could definitely improve.

No he's an undersized stretch 4 who can't shoot but can play 3 if you want to be a treadmill team. 2nd best player on a contender? Are you insane? He's like a defensive version of Gallinari, not a bad guy to have on your team so long as you limit him to being the 3rd/4th option. Right now, I'd say Teague is a better PG than Wall, slightly, at least offensively, but Wall can surpass him. Smith's problem is that he doesn't listen well, he should be playing in the paint at all times, when he gets baited into taking jumpshots is when he fails miserably. If he were a bit more....competent than I could see him amending his ways. But alas, I can't.

Why in the world would be want to ship off Nene? He is our best player and is locked in at under max money for the next 4 years.

I don't want to ship off Nene. Nene is slightly overpaid but Smith at like 13 mil is overpaid as well. You can't have two quasi-PFs who are overpaid on your roster. At least Nene brings stability to the roster and competent team play. The only reason to make the trade is you think Nene can't stay healthy (Which is a valid concern, but he's held up well so far, and it is my hope we get two more solid seasons out of him).

how in the world is Josh Smith inefficient? The guy is a do it all SF. He scores at a .46% efficiency (which is decent for that position) and he rebounds well and passes well. He is also a pretty good versatile defender who can defend on the perimeter and on the block. He has the potential to average 20-10-4 for us and he is only 27.

No, he's not a SF no matter how many times you say he is. ATL plays Horford at the 5 and Josh at the 4. He gets spot minutes at the 3 but for the most part he is a 4. He also has a TS of 49.%% this year, which is below average (how's that for efficiency?). His usage rate is at nearly 27% which is pretty ****ing high. His Ortg is also 96 which is bad as well. He's a 6'9, athletic Jordan Crawford. His game isn't conducive to building a contender...especially at the price he wants. People who like Josh Smith prolly like Rudy Gay as well, they get in love with the highlight reel stats but don't take a look at what the numbers say.