"Veiled Options"

[Kefka]

(ABCNews.com)<br /><br />The Veil Is Not Oppression,<br />It’s Chic, Say Muslim Women<br /><br />==================================================<br /><br />But when Sunita Mehta, co-founder of the New York-based Women for Afghan Women (WAW), got a phone call from the artist asking for a burqa, the all-encompassing robe worn by women in Afghanistan, she was at once suspicious. <br />"I asked him why he needed a burqa," says Mehta. And when she heard that the artist, Robert Galinsky, wanted a male rape victim to take off a burqa in the course of a multi-media art project in New York City to symbolize a stripping of layers of captivity, she inwardly groaned. <br /><br />But the co-founder of the women's rights group did take the time to explain to Galinsky just why all this symbolism surrounding the veil quiet frankly, gave her a headache. <br /><br />"I told him that as a group we have unanimously decided that we just don't want to talk about the burqa. But when it is brought up — usually by American women — we explain that it is not an issue for Afghan women. The issue is war, disease, hunger, famine and the Afghan women in our group do not want to talk about the veil or make it the focus of our work." <br /><br />While women across the world will celebrate International Women's Day on Friday with a nod to the achievements made by the women's movement and a reminder of the work yet to be done, many Muslim women in the United States gripe about the excessive attention the media has been paying to what they call "behind the veil" stories. <br /><br />What's even more galling, they say, is that the West just can't seem to get the picture right. <br /><br />Click here to learn about different kinds of headscarves. <br /><br />Waiting for Signs of 'Liberation' <br /><br />Last November, when Kabul, the city where she was born, fell from Taliban control, Homaira Mamoor watched in dismay as newscasters eagerly waited for Kabuli women to shed their burqas in a sort of symbolic personal celebration of their socio-political liberation. <br /><br />"I was frustrated with the Western media's misconception about the burqa and women in Afghanistan," says the 33-year-old WAW member. "They see it as a symbol of oppression, but the burqa has been part of Afghan tradition for centuries. And as long as women wear it as a matter of personal preference, how can you say it's a symbol of women's oppression?" <br /><br />Oppression was not a word that sprang to mind outside the Islamic Cultural Center of New York mosque in Manhattan on a recent Friday shortly before noon prayers. Women sporting a range of headscarves — from colorful, elaborately draped African veils to austere gray Turkish scarves — haggled unremittingly with hawkers outside the mosque peddling veils of every conceivable hue, shape and texture. <br /><br />"I've gone through two fashion phases," says Lina Omara, a 31-year-old Muslim from Bolivia whose dusky lavender eye-shadow perfectly matches her smartly draped veil. "I would make my own hijab [veil] with textiles that I bought from garment stores and would drape it really long and flowing at the back. These days, I buy hijabs from stores, but I never use pins. No pins for me," she says. <br /><br />For this particular chilly Friday afternoon, Omara, who converted to Islam a year ago when she married a Muslim, has elected to wear her hijab low over her forehead and tucked behind her ears in what she calls her "Tutenkhamen style" after the Egyptian pharaoh. <br /><br />Veils Across the World <br /><br />Across the Muslim world, from high-end fashion stores in Dubai to more economic ones in working-class Cairo, women shop for a range of Islamic garb from stark black abayas in feather-light chiffon or heavy cotton, to exquisitely embroidered gallabeyas — or long flowing gowns — and ornately beaded and sequined hijabs. <br /><br />Click here to learn about different kinds of headscarves. <br /><br />The diversity ranges from the gallabeyas and abayas with scarves of the Arab world to the chador or manteau (coat) and russari (scarf) of the Persian world to the chuni or wispy fabric accompanying the shalwar kameez in the Indian subcontinent to an assortment of veils and burqas worn in Muslim Southeast Asia and Africa. <br />They all fall under the rubric of the hijab, a term loosely, if not always accurately, employed to denote loose clothing topped by a headscarf. <br /><br /> Young women in colorful dresses prepare for a ceremony in Dubai, United Arab Emirates. (Kamran Jebreili/AP Photo)<br /> <br />The Islamic imperative for veiling stems from a passage in the Koran that states: "Say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty. They should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their ornaments."<br /><br />But within Islam, the issue of veiling is a subject for considerable debate. Some Islamic experts say the text is open to interpretations, which has accounted for the diversity of veiling traditions across the Islamic world. <br /><br />"Although the Koran does call upon women to cover their heads, the measures change from tradition to tradition," says Ibrahim Kalin, an Islamic scholar and fellow at George Washington University. "The burqa in particular, is part of local traditions in different parts of the world. While the Koran does not obliterate the need for hijab, Muslim women have a choice based on their circumstances. But Koranic injunctions definitely call for modesty in dressing." <br /><br />Pushing the Fashion Envelope <br /><br />But while most Muslim women say the hijab signifies iffa (modesty), tahara (purity) and taqwa (righteousness), in a globalized world where tradition and modernity meet at street corners across the globe, hijab styles seem to be pushing the envelope. <br /><br />Even while the West watched footage of women in Kabul begging for bread in shoddy, bulbous burqas during the Taliban years, many veiled women in Dubai wore Liz Clairborne jeans below their abayas, Egyptian college girls strolled through Cairo's Khan Khalili market in skin-tight jeans and clinging lycra tops with sedate headscarves on, and Turkish women in Istanbul sported the latest cuts in clothing and footwear teamed with Gucci look-alike modern silk scarves casually draped over their heads. <br /><br />Said Samir, a photographer from Cairo whose wife is not a mohajaba — the Egyptian slang for a woman who wears the veil — believes the new hijab chic is not just a meeting of tradition and modernity. He believes it's a sign that modern Muslim women want it both ways. <br /><br />"I think young girls in Cairo with jeans and makeup wear hijab because they think it's a better approach to attract husbands," says Samir. "This is how it is here. Boys want modern girls who aren't "loose." So the hijab gives out the message that she has traditional values while the makeup and tight jeans proves her modernity." <br /><br />‘American Muslims Are Good Muslims’<br /><br />But Yumna Malik, a student at Hunter College, New York, who started wearing the hijab when she was in seventh grade, is dismissive of her world Muslim sisters' sartorial displays.<br /><br />"They don't understand Islam," scoffs the 20-year-old biology major. "I wear hijab because God wants it. Islam calls for modesty and moderation. I don't know about other people, but I think American Muslims are good Muslims because we have so much temptation around us, that we respect it more." <br /><br />While many Muslim women see the hijab as a religious and cultural bulwark against what they call the excessive sexualization of the female body by market forces in the West, some women's scholars say there are problems on both sides of the East-West divide. <br /><br />"I think we need to respect women's choices to don any garb they want," says Valentine Moghadam, director of Women's Studies at Illinois State University and a fellow at the Woodrow Wilson International Center. "But when donning the hijab by choice, it gets more problematic because the idea that a woman has to cover her body to protect herself from men — or that men have to be protected — sends a wrong message. As wrong a message as women's bodies being sexualized in the West by the MTV and Hollywood industry." <br /><br />A Contentious Issue <br /><br />Within the women's movement, the hijab continues to be a contentious issue that threatens to split the movement on ideological grounds.<br /><br />Leftist women's rights groups in the developing world continue to condemn the hijab. And last year, when Lt. Col. Martha McSally, the highest-ranking female fighter pilot in the U.S. Air Force, sued the Defense Department challenging its regulations making it mandatory for female military personnel in Saudi Arabia to wear the abaya outside the base, she was supported by the Washington-based National Coalition of Women's Organizations.<br /><br />In January, in an apparent nod to McSally's case, the Defense Department announced that some of the restrictions for female military personnel in Saudi Arabia had been eased. Military women are now no longer required to wear the abaya, but are "strongly encouraged" to wear it. While McSally's case is still in the courts, some women's rights groups say this apparent "victory" in reality means nothing. <br /><br />The message, when it comes to hijab, might be a complex one, but at the heart of the issue, experts and ordinary women say, is a matter of choice. <br /><br />"There's a difference if Muslim women choose to wear the hijab or they are forced to wear it," says Jean Abinader, managing director of the Washington-based Arab American Institute. "It's a matter of religious freedom and women and men should be allowed to express themselves." <br /><br />And it's a message Galinsky finally learned after a long phone conversation with Mehta barely a week before his show goes up in Manhattan on Friday. In fact, he was so illuminated, that although it was too late to do away with the burqa in his multi-media ensemble, he invited WAW to do a write-up on the burqa for the art project and to distribute literature about the issue at the event. <br /><br />"All I wanted was to convey the sense that as an American, I too feel trapped by my government's decisions," he says."But after listening to them, I felt like a very naïve American. I do feel enlightened now though, and I realize that the burqa has been very misrepresented here."<br /> <br /> <small>[ March 07, 2002, 05:10 PM: Message edited by: Kefka ]</small>

[Kefka]

From the Bible:<br /><br />1 Corin. 11:7] <br />For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God, <br />but woman is the glory of man, for man was not made for woman, but woman from <br />man, neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. <br /><br />[1 Corin. 14:34] <br />The woman should keep silence in the churches, for they are not permitted to <br />speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is any thing <br />they desire to know let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful <br />for a woman to speak in church. <br /><br />[1 Timo. 2:9] <br />Woman should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel, not <br />with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire but by good deeds. <br /><br />From another board:<br /><br />"During this particular biblical time it was socially unaccaptable for a woman to walk about with her head uncovered. Women who did so were considered, shall we say, sluts. <br /><br />This is not practiced in this particualar way in most Christian churches today because women are not thought of this way in our culture. "<br /><br />"It makes an interesting point, this requirement IS in the christian bible, but (and I cant confirm this, but I have heard several times that it is true) that there is no such requirment in the actual Quran about proper apparel for women. Just to dress modestly. Ironic I think. Western Christians choose to ignore this (I believe russian orthodox still practices this) yet Muslims hold on to it.*shrug*"<br /> <br /> <small>[ March 07, 2002, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: Kefka ]</small>

[Riggo-toni]

You concede, quite correctly, that the Purdah (veiling) is not an Islamic requirement, but rather a Middle Eastern custom (which in fact predates Islam). And yet, the Islamic regimes that you are so enamored with (Iran and the Taliban) have both had "fashion police" which regularly beat women for failing to completely veil themselves, or allowed some of their ankle to be exposed, and did so all in the name of Islam and adherence to Sharia. Hmmmmmm....<br /><br />As for wmoen being reluctant to throw off their burquas subsequent to Taliban retreats, I would submit that a more likely hypothesis is that many were worried about possible reprisals for their behavior should the Taliban return. Need I remind you, an Afghan expatriate, of the many times during the long civil war in which cities and towns changed hands, with each change in power followed by massacres of those suspected of somehow collaborating with the previous power.<br /><br />While you complain vociferously about what is admittedly a tragic loss of civilians during this conflict, you conveniently overlook how U.S. oversight has prevented Northern Alliance soldiers from carrying out any revenge killings in the areas they have reconquered.

[Guest <Kefka>]

Propaganda.

[Riggo-toni]

You accusing me of propaganda is like Pavarotti accusing me of being fat... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="rolleyes.gif" />

[Guest <Kefka>]

Propaganda that women in Islam are being oppressed. Yet when Nuns cover their heads and dress modestly it's because they are practicing their religion only.<br /><br />Yes it is not obligatory or a must for women to wear a burqa or a veil. But it is a must for them to cover their heads and dress modestly (as it is required for men). But if a women chooses so out of piety, it is her choice. The media makes it look like the women are forced to wear the burqa in Afghanistan. Strange how, now that the Taliban aren't in control, the women still wear the burqa.

[Brave]

The Taliban may not be in control, Kefka, but they may be present and more than willing to exact revenge on those exhibiting freedom from their tyrannical rule.

[Guest <Kefka>]

Ummm... No. Go ask any Muslima in Afghanistan why they don't strip down, lol and throw their burqas off. You see there is a think called modesty and shame. Out of piety they choose to wear their burqas. The Taliban were nothing but students of Islam, albeight ignorant, who studied Pakistan. Hardly the "evil tyrannical" rulers you call them to be.

[Guest <Kefka>]

I wonder what the Muslims would think of the American people had they watched the show "Cops" lol. <img border="0" alt="[laugh]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh.gif" />

[Brave]

Kefka, for the record, I grew up in a family that happened to have some close friends who were muslims. I have lived with newly arrived students from both Qatar and Kuwait and knew them before they could speak a lick of conversational English. In doing so I learned a bit about the culture. I am not an expert but I dare say I know a bit more than the average American.<br /><br />There are Muslims and then there are Muslims. Some of them are wrong in what they do just as some Christians are wrong in what they do whether they claim to do it out of faith or not. For example, I would not come onto this board and defend white supremecist groups spouting their hate and violence in the name of their religion. Why you choose to identify with the narrow Muslim sects who are, by their very own interpretation of their faith extremists, terrorists and killers is beyond me. <br /><br />Assuming you are living and working here in the good ole USA, you must know that even YOU are supporting the government that you rail against here. Even if you don't live here, if you have the freedom to speak your mind you more than likely live in a country that is supporting the fight against your beloved terrorists. So, thanks for those tax dollars ... and may they help kill another of those Al Qaeda b@st@rds!<br /><br />And if you live in Saudi Arabia as you stated in another thread ... thanks for the cheap oil! Your greed contributes greatly to all that killing in Afganistan.<br /> <br /> <small>[ March 12, 2002, 10:36 PM: Message edited by: Brave ]</small>

[Glenn X]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by <Kefka>:<br /><strong>it is not obligatory or a must for women to wear a burqa or a veil. But it is a must for them to cover their heads and dress modestly (as it is required for men). But if a women chooses so out of piety, it is her choice.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Is it freedom of choice? Real choice? Or is it simply choosing the better of two options? Option 1: Don't wear the burqa and get the butt of an AK-47 driven into the back of your motherf*cking head -- or worse. Option 2: Wear the burqa and put off being brutalized for, at least, another day.<br /><br />Hmmm, that seems like a real tough choice to me!<br /><br />But then again, I forget that this is Afghanistan we're talking about here. Thanks to the progressively-minded (and now-toppled) Taliban -- who were strict adherents to that pillar of progressive, forward-thinking ideals (in a warm and touchy medieval kinda way, of course), the Koran -- women were accorded "the freedom" to dress as they wished (i.e. "modestly"). If only we here in the U.S., who live with the "illusion of choice" (e.g. voting in free elections, deciding upon our mode of religion on an individual basis rather than a governmentally-run compulsory one), could be lucky enough to live in a country as "free" as that of (formerly) Taliban-controlled Afghanistan. <img border="0" alt="[laugh]" title="" src="graemlins/laugh.gif" /><br /> <br /> <small>[ March 12, 2002, 10:39 PM: Message edited by: Glenn X ]</small>

[PCS]

Kefka, there is more than enough information on the net to justify the belief that wearing veils is in fact an islamic belief. I for one, do not dooubt this. However, even that is open to some interpretation. I for one, after reading many articles, do not believe the veils in of themselves are tools of oppression, but I can see how they can be viewed as symbols of oppresion. <br />However, to somehow tie this in with the Taliban not being the tyrannical rulers we call them to be would seem careless at best. Here are 3 things to read about women and Taiban rule. If you would like, I can go and find lliterally thousands of sites from hundreds of different sources to give to you. All with the same result. The Taliban "were" much as we thought them to be.<br /><br /><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1862000/1862282.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1862000/1862282.stm</a><br /><br /><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_597000/597730.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_597000/597730.stm</a><br /><br /><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1861000/1861520.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1861000/1861520.stm</a><br /><br />Also, the muslims,some, would probably think the same thing by watching cops, as some Americans have thought about Muslim countries, especially Afghanistan, when watching the news of the constant warfare, between Muslims, all these years. Most of the people just mentioned, would realize it may not necessarily be representative of whole.

[Guest <Kefka>]

I don't doubt that some of these incidents did occur. But like I have stated, don't label an entire group of people for the actions of a few. In America there are thousands of women converts who wear the veil. Go ask them why they choose to do so. Simply put, its propaganda against Islam.

[Guest <Kefka>]

Glenn X, <br /><br />If your not afraid.<br /><br />Get off your a$$, take a flight into Pakistan (you can't fly directly into Afghanistan you'll most definately get shot down), cross over the border, and go inside Kabul. Go and poll as many women you can find and ask them. Why do you continue to wear the burqa. Did not the American government liberate you from the Taliban? Go and ask them. Than you can come back here and spout all you want.