F'ing French: 9/11 was a U.S. Govt Plot

[redman]

Yahoo! article:

Conspiracy Theory Grips French: Sept. 11 as Right-Wing U.S. Plot

Sat Jun 22, 9:07 AM ET

By ALAN RIDING The New York Times

PARIS, June 21 Even before the fires were extinguished at the World Trade Center and the Pentagon ( news - web sites), conspiracy theories began flooding the Internet. A few quickly spilled out of Web sites and were widely circulated by e-mail before fading into oblivion. One, however, has taken on a life of its own in France. It was turned into a book that has become the publishing sensation of the spring.

In the book, "L'Effroyable Imposture," or "The Horrifying Fraud," Thierry Meyssan challenges the entire official version of the Sept. 11 attacks.

He claims the Pentagon was not hit by a plane, but by a guided missile fired on orders of far right-wingers inside the United States government. Further, he says, the planes that struck the World Trade Center were not flown by associates of Osama bin Laden ( news - web sites), but were programmed by the same government people to fly into the twin towers.

What really interests him, though, is what he sees as the conspiracy behind these actions. He contends that it was organized by right-wing elements inside the government who were planning a coup unless President Bush ( news - web sites) agreed to increase military spending and go to war against Afghanistan ( news - web sites) and Iraq to promote the conspirators' oil interests.

To achieve their goals, the theory goes, they blamed Osama bin Laden for Sept. 11 and later broadened their targets to include the "axis of evil," centered on Iraq.

The 235-page book has been universally ridiculed by the French news media, while its arguments have been dismantled point by point in "L'Effroyable Mensonge," or "The Horrifying Lie," a new book by two French journalists.

A Pentagon spokesman said, "There was no official reaction because we figured it was so stupid."

Yet in the past three months, Mr. Meyssan's book has sold more than 200,000 copies in France, placing it at the top of best-seller lists for several weeks. Foreign rights have also been sold in 16 countries (a Spanish version is already on sale), and Mr. Meyssan traveled to Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates in April to present his arguments at a local university.

The book's French publisher, Éditions Carnot, said it would release an English version in the United States in July.

Mr. Meyssan said in an interview that he was surprised his book had so far provoked no major debate, but he was convinced that his message was being heard.

"Two-thirds of the hits on our Web site come from the United States," he said. "I'm not saying all my readers agree with me, but they recognize that the official American version of the attacks is idiotic. If we can't believe the official version, where do we stand?"

It is nonetheless puzzling why so many of the French have been willing to pay the equivalent of $17 for "The Horrifying Fraud." Is it a symptom of latent anti-Americanism? Is it a reflection of the French public's famous distrust of its own government and mainstream newspapers? Or has the French love of logic been tickled by the apparent Cartesian neatness of a conspiracy theory?

Certainly, after Sept. 11, some leftist intellectuals suggested that the United States had invited the attacks through its support for Israel. Others recalled that Islamic militants had been financed and armed by the United States to fight the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan in the 1980's. Yet, in this case, Libération and Le Monde, left-of-center newspapers with no love for the Bush administration, have led the assault on Mr. Meyssan's book.

"The pseudotheories of `The Horrifying Fraud' feed off the paranoid anti-Americanism that is one of the permanent components of the French political caldron," Gérard Dupuy wrote in an editorial in Libération. Edwy Plenel, news editor at Le Monde, wrote: "It is very grave to encourage the idea that something which is real is in fact fictional. It is the beginning of totalitarianism."

Guillaume Dasquié and Jean Guisnel, the authors of "The Horrifying Lie," favor a different explanation for the book's success. They write of France's "profound social and political sickness," which leads people to embrace the idea "that they are victims of plots, that the truth is hidden from them, that they should not believe official versions, but rather that they should demystify all expressions of power, whatever they might be."

Still, even if some French are susceptible to conspiracy theories, few had heard of the book until March 16, when Mr. Meyssan appeared on a popular Saturday evening television program on France 2, a government-owned but independently run channel. In the program, Mr. Meyssan was allowed to expound his theory without being challenged by the host. In the two weeks that followed, his book sold 100,000 copies.

Mr. Meyssan himself seems an unlikely purveyor of tall stories. A 44-year-old former theology student, he dabbled in leftist politics before forming a political research company, Réseau Voltaire, or Voltaire Network, in 1994.

The company's Web site (www . reseauvoltaire.com) adopted specific causes, like fighting homophobia and opposing Jean-Marie Le Pen's far-right National Front. Its investigative methods seemed thorough and objective.

In person too, Mr. Meyssan, a slim, wiry man with short hair and penetrating eyes, comes over as both serious and rational.

French journalists who had given some credibility to his Web site were all the more surprised, then, to find him building a vast conspiracy theory around the fact that photographs of the Sept. 11 attack showed no airplane parts in or near the smoldering gap in the Pentagon. This became the departure point for his book.

The line of reasoning that follows is a case study in how a conspiracy theory can be built around contradictions in official statements, unnamed "experts" and "professional pilots," unverified published facts, references to past United States policy in Cuba and Afghanistan, use of technical information, "revelations" about secret oil-industry maneuvers and, above all, rhetorical questions intended to sow doubts. At the end of each chapter, Mr. Meyssan presents his speculation as fact.

To gather his evidence, he worked mainly from articles, statements and speculation found on the Internet. He did not travel to the United States to interview any witnesses. Indeed, he dismisses the accounts of witnesses to the crash of the American Airlines ( news - web sites) Boeing 757 into the Pentagon.

"Far from believing their depositions, the quality of these witnesses only underlines the importance of the means deployed by the United States Army to pervert the truth," he said.

His "truth" is that no Muslims took part in the attacks "because the Koran forbids suicide." To his original claim that the Pentagon was bombed from the inside, he has now added his conviction that the building was struck by an air-to-ground missile fired by the United States Air Force. "This type of missile, seen from the side, would easily remind one of a small civilian airplane," he said.

In response, Mr. Dasquié and Mr. Guisnel said they traveled to Washington and interviewed 18 witnesses to the Pentagon crash.

They also have named experts explaining how the Boeing 757 could disappear inside the crater caused by the impact. Further, they identify several people mentioned only by their initials in Mr. Meyssan's acknowledgments, including a French Army officer currently on trial for treason and a middle-ranking intelligence officer.

The book has proved to be a windfall for Mr. Meyssan's publisher. More accustomed to publishing marginal books on subjects like the "false" American moon landing in 1969 and the latest "truth" about U.F.O.'s, Éditions Carnot can now boast of its first best seller.

Further, confident that this conspiracy theory will endure, Mr. Meyssan and Carnot have just published a 192-page annex, with new documents, photographs and theories. They call it "Le Pentagate."

[OrangeSkin]

What a bunch of frickin' morons. The French suck. We need to use three nukes: One on Afghanistan, one on Pakistan, and one on France.

[PCS]

:doh: Oh man. Another one. And a french one at that. It almost makes you wonder if Meyssan believes what he's shoveling or just taking advantage of some of the more gullible people on the planet. Yeesh. I like the unchallenged T.V. interview. Imagine Meyssan on a show like 60 minutes or the Factor. :coach: :soapbox: :stick: I'm not really sure who to pity and/or disdain more here. the man who wrote the book or the people who actually believe this nonsense. Coup huh?

His "truth" is that no Muslims took part in the attacks "because the Koran forbids suicide." Uh huh. Apparently he doesn't get out much. Maybe we should e-mail him the Palestine thread. Give him kefka's e-mail as well. And of course, the first thing I think of when seeing a 757 is "Hmmmm. Now wait a minute. Is that a big jet or a guided missle?" You know how much the 2 look alike at first glance.

[redman]

Yeah, I liked the "Koran forbids suicide" reasoning myself. Well, so does the Torah, the Bible and the U.S. Constitution, so I guess that rules out the Americans too. I guess it was gnomes . . .

[inmate running the asylum]

This f'king author and publisher are nothing but morons and con men, out to make a buck. Notice that the article mentioned that the publisher, had prevously published another book on the "false" American moon landing in 1969.

I suppose the Boeing 757's we all saw on television flying into the WTC were a mirage! It doesn't surprise me that the author could sell 200,000 books, because there are a lot of Muslims and Algerian nationals in France, who dislike the French establishment and the U.S. I do not think that the average Frenchmen believes this rubbish, however, in that the article mentioned "it was universally ridiculed by the French news media."

Hmm. I wonder if the author having been a "former theology student," has anything to do with it? :laugh: Are you paying attention Mardi? :laugh:

[Om]

I don't think the fact that some morally bankrupt buffoon sold 200,000 other intellectually challenged buffoons this ultimate buffoonery has anything to do with anti-Americanism, French idiocy, Islam, or anything else.

The world is full of people. Many of them are incredibly stupid.

This story simply points to 200,001 specific examples.

[luckydevil]

What do u except from the most liberal country in the world. ButI do think JFK murder was commited by the government.

[luckydevil]

I wonder whats Olivar Stone reaction to 9/11

[Glenn X]

Originally posted by luckydevi

I wonder whats Olivar Stone reaction to 9/11

Interesting you should ask, luckydevi.

"Six men [the heads of Viacom, Fox News Corp., Disney, Vivendi, Sony, and Time Warner-AOL] are deciding what you're seeing in film, and they own all the small companies.... Now, within reason, they let [filmmakers] do certain things, and that is far better obviously than, say, the Arabs where they don't let you do anything, and I agree it's relative. But we are in a dilemma. We have too much order.... And I think the revolt on September 11 was about order. It was about f*ck you, f*ck your order... And is it time perhaps to reconsider the world order? Is it time to wonder why the banks have joined the movie companies and all the corporations, and where this is all going?" -- Oliver Stone, quoted by Jeffrey Wells on Reel.com, October 10, 2001

http://www.tnr.com/online/idiocy111301.html

Let me first say that I think Oliver Stone is a damn fine filmmaker and count his Platoon, Wall Street, and JFK among my all-time favorite films... but this statement by him here is utterly unconscionable. To characterize what happened on Sept. 11th as a "revolt" is deeply stupid; it was an unprovoked act of terrorist aggression, plain and simple. Moreover, to view the 9/11 hijackers and their Al Qaeda compatriots as interested in throwing off the yoke of "order" is patently misinformed; Bin Laden and Al Qaeda are a murderous pack of Islamist neo-fascists who don't eschew the notion of order at all. On the contrary, they are driven by the idea of violently ramming their medieval and barbaric worldview down the throat of every man, woman, and child on the face of the earth -- or die trying.

Mr. Stone, why don't you go snort another line of cocaine, stew in your ultra-cynical, post-Vietnam/Watergate malaise for another decade or two, and leave the heavy thinking about Sept. 11th to somebody else, okay?

[Ian]

Originally posted by OrangeSkin

What a bunch of frickin' morons. The French suck. We need to use three nukes: One on Afghanistan, one on Pakistan, and one on France.

I like the general idea but solicit the following advice. Instead of two nukes on bordering countries, why not use one with a multiple warhead complement (you know the sort the USA have for 'peacekeeping'). It'll take out both Pakistan and Afghanistan, I'm sure.

Personally, I'd then take the nuke I saved with the above and the one you intended for France and deliver both on Saddam Hussain. You can never be too careful and basically as conspiracy theories go regarding state sponsored terrorism, Saddam probably was a co-conspirator here as well.

For the French guy who wrote this nonsense, I would use instead the MI6 (CIA ?) Death Squad that took out Princess Diana's Car with a Fiat Uno...

Whoops, I've inadvertently stumbled across another French Conspiracy theory...

Also, just to be topical, I can bet you that there will be a conspiracy theory doing the rounds in France as to why their football (sorry, soccer) team did so bad at World Cup. The referee who sent Thierry Henry, their top striker off, will be the most under scrutiny...

[Brave]

Idiotic Froggies! Pure garbage.

To their defense, however, their are quite a few idiots over here as well. Here's a website that proves it:

http://allbrevard.net/

[DIESEL TROLL]

AH YES.....we here at the US have our "Left Coast" and the Canadiens have their "Frogs".......:laugh:

[PCS]

Just for the he** of it and motivated by this thread, I did a search on google for this kind of stuff...... Yikes! Here's a good one.

Everybody's involved.

[Terry]

CBS did a poll and the results indicated that only 10% of Americans believe in evolution. 47% believed in 'intelligent design' and the rest believe in the biblical account verbatim.

We have people that swear the Holocaust never happened.

We have folks here who believe crop circles are made by UFOs even the the tractor marks are obvious.

We have many here who think that we didn't really go to the moon at all, and that it was all a hoax.

And I notice that the National Enquirer is still selling well at my local markets.

We have peole that think UFO's are performing wierd experiments on us, that Elvis isn't dead, that the governemnt has an alien spaceship out in Nevada or someplace that it's hiding from us, and that there's no way that the pyramids could have been built by primitive Egyptians.

I wouldn't be so quick to sneer at the French, we've got plenty of folks here who'll believe any kind of bull**** or conspiracy theory, the wackier the better.

[redman]

Terry-

Religious beliefs about creation don't belong in this conversation. Neither does the National Enquirer which doesn't even itself purport to be academic - it's for entertainment purposes only.

This is about objective facts and current events. And in that regard I defy to you point me to an American best seller that seriously asserts in academic fashion that:

- the Holocaust didn't happen;

- crop circles are evidence of alien landings;

- Elvis is alive;

- the moon landing was a hoax;

- etc.

It's not that I believe that the French (at least most of them) don't believe that 9/11 occurred. It's simply evidence to me of their silly, prideful anti-Americanism. Spare me the BS, egalitarian position that we're all as stupid as the French are.

[Terry]

Hmmm......

like a book that says that Lincoln didn't fight the civil war to free the slaves, but started the war for the dubious agenda of sacrificing the independence of the states to the supremacy of the federal government. He actually started the war with the south specifically to destroy it and bring their independence under the thumb of a powerful federal state. The entire issue of freeing the slaves was a devious ruse. The Real Lincoln, Thomas J. Dilorenzo #30 on Amazon.com's best seller list.

But that's either here nor there.

Perhaps the people who bought his book were curious to see what facts he had to back up his premise. Perhaps the books were bought by a high percentage of the 5 to 6 million arabs/moslems who live in France, who mostly seem to think that this was an Israeli plot anyway.

We'll see what happens when the book goes on sale here, in July.

[Glenn X]

To me, this is a compelling news item not so much for Thierry Meyssan's conspiracy theory itself (which as conspiracy theories go is noteworthy only for being so patently preposterous and so atrociously researched), but rather for the response his conspiracy theory has received in his native France. Sure, one can look at the numbers and say, "Well, the book has sold only 200,000 copies in France. So what?" But, in my view, the more important question is why has it done so relatively well in France, compared to the sales numbers in other countries? What, if anything, does this say about the French, in general sociological terms?

Well, when journalists Guillaume Dasquié and Jean Guisnel, both of whom are French nationals, tell me that it's indicative of a popular notion in France "that they [the French] are victims of plots, that the truth is hidden from them, that they should not believe official versions, but rather that they should demystify all expressions of power, whatever they might be," my inclination is to believe Dasquié and Guisnel, as they live in France and surely know a hell of lot more about the situation than any of us here do.

[SkinsLegacy44]

We should not be blaming the author, nor the publishing companies. These two entities have the right to speak their minds. IT IS THE FRENCH CITIZENS who have been purchasing this book @ record levels, who are to blame. IF IT WASN'T FOR US, THEY WOULD BE SPEAKING GERMAN. F*ng P*ssy's.