Needed: Spawn of Spurrier and Gibbs

[GatorEye]

This loss takes the cake. I can't believe it, yet I can. I can rationalize it only because we deserved to lose the way our offense played. With the season now behind us and hoping we lose against Minnesota to get a better draft pick, my thoughts wander.

I, like most of you, thought that with Gibbs return and all things being equal to last year, we'd probably be better by at least 2 games. Gibbs "superior" coaching to Spurrier would have to be worth 2 wins by itself. I believed it myself.

Let's look at the things we thought Gibbs would deliver:

1) Discipline

2) Adaptable offense

3) Game Management

4) Better O-line play

5) Better coaching staff

Unfortunately it looks like he was only able to deliver marginally on #4 and majorly on #5.

This team is as undisciplined if not more so than under Spurrier. I think we are close to the record for most penalty yardage. The stupid penalties we continue to commit are just ridiculous. I guess we can't just lay this one on the ol' ball coach.

Besides adjusting the blocking schemes to give Portis more cutbacks, Gibbs seems as stubborn in his ultra conservative nature as Spurrier was to keep throwing no matter how many times Ramsey got pummeled. And I'd have to say he is worse than Spurrier when it comes to clock management, getting plays called, and challenges although at least we finally won a challenge today.

Of course the loss of Jansen hurts but the O-line still needs work. As for the coaching staff, there isn't much to complain about on the defensive side of the ball. Special teams is hit or miss, and the offense, well, we know what we have there.

Let's face it, with the talent this team has, we should have been a playoff team with the sorry state of the NFC this year. This all boils down to one question. What if this is the best Gibbs has? What if he continues on this Brunell hasn't written the last page fantasy and thinking that "contemplating" throwing downfield is the same thing as actually throwing downfield. His statements in today's post game press conference REALLY have me worried. Trying to throw a ball downfield is NOT the same as actually doing it. He said we tried to go downfield but didn't because of a sack, pressure, Ramsey, the crowd noise, the weather, the economy, global warming, etc. I can't believe what he was saying after the game and that he actually got pi$$ed that a reporter asked him why we didn't go downfield.

Granted, Spurrier's theory of hitting the home run on every play didn't pan out, but like my wife always says when I fantasize about winning the lottery..."Honey, you have to be in it to win it." And let's face it, we ain't in it.

I'm willing to write this year off as a year for Joe to shake the rust off (what's one more after the last 10 or so), but if we don't come out with a good offense in the first part of next season, I think we won't be any more successful than we've been since Gibbs first left.

We need a spawn of Spurrier and Gibbs. Someone with an unrelenting drive for a high octane offense tempered with the experience to know how to use it. Basically the offensive equivalent of Greg Williams. Aggressive, but measured. We can't always count on our defense to shut teams down - we need to be able to outscore people as well.

It's going to be a long offseason of us wondering what changes Gibbs is going to make to the offense because, if he doesn't do something, it's going to be another year of making excuses come next Thanksgiving.

HTTR

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

I can't disagree with anything you said.

[footballhenry]

i agree to alot of what you say. i have always beleived that many fans here are to hard on Spurrier, though he did cut and run, i think he couldve been successful....what weve had the past two seasons though are two different philosophies, both which havent worked... an stubborn agressive (take chances) pass happy philosophy in spurrier and a stubborn conservative (lets not lose) philosophy in gibbs.....we need gibbs to actually take SOME things from Spurrier, I am serious....you all may think im nuts but I think we would be very well off with Spurrier as an O-Coordinator WITH Gibbs and co. remaining at their respective positions.....

[jtyler42]

This post is on-point....I think Gibbs may need to look at bringing in someone to help with the offense....

[GatorEye]

Originally posted by footballhenry

we need gibbs to actually take SOME things from Spurrier, I am serious

My post summed up into one sentence, thus my thread title.

Even if we had Spurrier's offense with Williams defense, we'd be in the playoffs right now if we would have had a QB that could have survived the pounding. Maybe Bugel coaching the Oline would have helped Spurrier, but probably not much given Spurrier's philosophy.

[jtyler42]

So what do you think Gibbs should do?

[GatorEye]

Originally posted by jtyler42

So what do you think Gibbs should do?

I'm not asking Gibbs to completely change his offensive philosophy, but would it hurt to run Coles, Gardner, Jacobs, and McCants out in a route at the same time?

Or Heaven forbid, throw a ball more than 30 yards downfield between 5-10 times a game.

[RiggoDrill]

First of all, I agree with the sentiment in this thread. Gibbs is a great head coach and you see it in the fight of the team, but I haven't more than a shovel-pass here or there that shows me he has the magic touch he used to have on offense. Everything seems to be slow-developing, with the receivers sitting and waiting, rather than running in free space.

That said, I'm optimistic about our future as long as Gibbs seeks some assistance from coaches who carried on the brand of football Gibbs created with Don Coryell and Ernie Zampese in San Diego.

We see it in St. Louis (Zampese > Turner > Martz), Kansas City (Zampese > Turner > Martz > Saunders), Oakland (Zampese > Turner), San Diego (Zampese > Turner > Cameron), Carolina (Zampese > Gibbs > Henning).

In all the above cases, the fundamental Air Coryell passing system remained, but things became faster-paced, with more emphasis on 3- and 5-step drops, delivering the ball to an open area in the field (vs. an open receiver), etc.

I truly think that for Joe Gibbs to re-capture his glory he will need to take a step back like Dick Vermeil --- to let a younger coach build from (not undermine) his foundation based on the reality of today's game.

[BlitzFiftySix]

I joked months ago about bringing in Spurrier to be the Offensive Coordinator and got laughed off the thread. I didn't mean it literaly, just figuratively.

[Om]

There's only one real question I'd ask Gibbs about the last half-dozen games ... and that's the reason why he's decided to run a kindergarten version of his offense, no matter what the flow of the game dictates, now that he's decided to go with Patrick. Like the rest of you, I can come up with at least a dozen theories, but they'd be just that---theories.

Only Joe knows for real what he's seeing and thinking ... and he ain't talkin'.

I'm a "big picture" guy through and through, but it has definitely been frustrating to watch my team go into weekly street fights with one hand voluntarily tied behind its' back. The idea of having to wait 8 long months to see him finally take the handcuffs off this unit next September isn't all that cheery a prospect at the moment.

[mookie0720]

What is so maddening is that we did not throw a single pass where our WR is running towards the endzone. All of our passes are screens, hitches, outs, square ins- none of these have our guys running towards the endzone. Also his "4 WR sets" include 3 TE's and 1 WR....that's NOT a 4 WR set. Get a shotgun, take some shots deep, modernize the offense.

[Baculus]

Mike Martz would be a fantastic addition to the coaching staff. THAT would be my fantasy pick for the offseason.

The thing is, I remember Gibbs having a more open, downfield offense. A lot of us remember that. The only thing I can think of is that the WRs and Ramsey do not have the timing down in practice, and/or Gibbs does not trust the OL. So, he plays conservative ball, remembering the bad moments in practice when they tried to go downfield.

Or, I dunno, it could be anything.

[Baculus]

Get a shotgun, take some shots deep, modernize the offense.

Interestingly, Buges emphantically said they'd never use the shotgun. It's kinda like Norv never allowing his QBs to audible. Some flexibility does seem to be needed; especially since most of us are layman, though, is it easy to see what's the problem?

[GatorEye]

Originally posted by Om

There's only one real question I'd ask Gibbs about the last half-dozen games ... and that's the reason why he's decided to run a kindergarten version of his offense, no matter what the flow of the game dictates, now that he's decided to go with Patrick. Like the rest of you, I can come up with at least a dozen theories, but they'd be just that---theories.

Only Joe knows for real what he's seeing and thinking ... and he ain't talkin'.

I'm a "big picture" guy through and through, but it has definitely been frustrating to watch my team go into weekly street fights with one hand voluntarily tied behind its' back. The idea of having to wait 8 long months to see him finally take the handcuffs off this unit next September isn't all that cheery a prospect at the moment.

I'd love to get the answer to that question as well, although it's not like we were chucking them downfield a lot with Brunell either. I just know I did see guys open downfield under Spurrier and know there has to be a way to get the ball to them with some sort of pass protection.

Bottom line - I thought Gibbs spent a lot of time looking at tape in part to see what he could take from modern offenses to update his as well as to, of course, evaluate talent. You'd think that after looking at all that tape he would have seen something in Spurrier's offense he could take and modify to work. If anything, it looked like he ripped out the half of his old playbook that had anything to do with a vertical pass and left it in the back seat of his car. Someone needs to find it - badly.

[RiggoDrill]

Originally posted by Om

There's only one real question I'd ask Gibbs about the last half-dozen games ... and that's the reason why he's decided to run a kindergarten version of his offense, no matter what the flow of the game dictates, now that he's decided to go with Patrick. Like the rest of you, I can come up with at least a dozen theories, but they'd be just that---theories.

I hear ya Om ... The only plausible theory I can concoct (assuming Gibbs is deliberate) is that he wants to develop a slobberknocker, no-nonsense, mano-on-mano mentality on the line of scrimmage before he results to to more elaborate tactics to gain yardage. In other words, he doesn't want his players getting arrogant before they have learned to win the hard way.

Unfortunately, I haven't seen too many bright signs of what we can "eventually" do with the players on hand. Lavernues Coles is a top-shelf hard-nosed lighting-fast receiver, arguably on par with Gary Clark. Where is the deep middle of the field? Why must we wince as Patrick Ramsey has to evade one or two tacklers just to throw a frickin' crossing route?

The good news to me is that the offensive line is starting to show a rhythm and aggressiveness that speaks of Joe Bugel. The bad news is that the pop-fly/running-wild/unstoppable Air Coryell offense hasn't shown its face yet.

[Om]

As with most things, the "answer" isn't going to be any one thing, but a combination. Probably a combination involving several things noted here, as well as several that are not---a disastrous OL performance almost all year; a QB who isn't quite "there" yet upstairs as far as who's supposed to be where and when to hit them; things Gibbs sees in practice and on film that tell him what he can and cannot expect from certain people/packages; and any number of ideas/philosophies about team-building and player-building that he's trying to implement by handling things the way he is.

There's simply so much more to this Romper Room approach to offense this season than people---even those in the industry but NOT in the film rooms and on the practice field everyday, or on the sidelines every weekend---can see simply by watching the games.

The most frustrating thing now is knowing that, as fans, we'll now get to spend the next 8 months listening to armies of "experts"---those who get paid as well as those who simply expound for free---tell us what he's thinking and what he "should" be doing. He could sure make my offseason less of a bummer if he'd just come out and tell us, already.

Of course, even if he did, there'd be armies lining up to tell us why he's not telling the truth. So maybe that's not such a great idea after all.

Tell you what: Coach Joe, if you'd like, I'd be happy to e-mail you my phone number ... I promise I won't tell.

[GatorEye]

Originally posted by RiggoDrill

I hear ya Om ... The only plausible theory I can concoct (assuming Gibbs is deliberate) is that he wants to develop a slobberknocker, no-nonsense, mano-on-mano mentality on the line of scrimmage before he results to to more elaborate tactics to gain yardage. In other words, he doesn't want his players getting arrogant before they have learned to win the hard way.

Unfortunately, I haven't seen too many bright signs of what we can "eventually" do with the players on hand. Lavernues Coles is a top-shelf hard-nosed lighting-fast receiver, arguably on par with Gary Clark. Where is the deep middle of the field? Why must we wince as Patrick Ramsey has to evade one or two tacklers just to throw a frickin' crossing route?

I want to see some different receiver combinations and would it be too much to see a deep ball on first down? At least with Spurrier you'd know he could throw the ball on any down at any place on the field.

Gibbs is falling into the routine of running Portis on first and second down, replacing him on third down for a pass. It's too predictable. It's even OK to be predictable when you have the players to be successful anyway, but it appears we don't even have that.