Johnny Punani2 Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,114627,00.html Pakistani Forces Ramp Up Siege Friday, March 19, 2004 ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — Thousands of Pakistani army reinforcements joined in an ongoing offensive Friday to hone in on a "high value target" that may be Usama bin Laden's No. 2 man, as fighting intensified to rout out Al Qaeda (search) and Taliban fugitives from their hiding places. Ayman al-Zawahri (search) -- bin Laden's deputy and the man considered the brains behind the Al Qaeda terror network -- is believed to be cornered and perhaps wounded in a 3-square mile area of the tribal area of Pakistan near the rugged Afghan border. There was no indication that bin Laden was with the Egyptian-born al-Zawahri, but the Pakistani military estimates that about 400 militants -- a mix of foreigners and Pakistani tribesmen -- are cornered in the border battle. "From the type of resistance we are getting ... the militants could be anything from 300 to 400," Army spokesman Gen. Shaukat Sultan told a news conference Friday. "The type of resistance, the type of preparation of their defensive positions, the hardened fortresses they have made means we can assume that there could probably be some high-value target there." He disputed claims by four senior Pakistani officials that captured militants had revealed that al-Zawahri was among them, and possibly injured. "So far, whatever people we have apprehended, we have not got confirmation from them," he said, but added: "Even if we knew more, we couldn't tell you." Meanwhile, Afghan authorities reported the arrests of midlevel terrorist leaders on their side of the border. Fighting spread Friday to two more villages in South Waziristan, where hundreds of paramilitary forces began an operation against Al Qaeda and Taliban fugitives four days ago. Townspeople said heavy guns fired through the night and they saw jet fighters in the area, although it wasn't clear if the aircraft had opened fire. On Thursday, Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf (search) said a "high value" target was believed trapped, and three senior Pakistani officials said that intelligence indicated it was al-Zawahri. Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed said Friday the siege was "narrowing down," and that the target could be identified as troops get closer. "They (the militants) are giving a tough contest. They have built bunkers in their homes," he said. Pakistani troops sealed escape routes and used artillery and helicopter gunships to attack militants near the rugged Afghan border. Residents reported seeing scores of military trucks, carrying troops and weapons, including light artillery and heavy machine-guns, and some armored vehicles. Army troops took up positions on rooftops of private homes to provide security for the convoy of troops moving from Wana to the target areas. A Taliban spokesman threatened Friday that the group would attack U.S. and Pakistan forces if they did not stop fighting the militants, Reuters reported. "We will carry out more attacks against international coalition forces if they continue to chase us," Reuters reported the spokesman said in taped comments translated into Arabic by Al Jazeera television. Sultan said such statements would not affect the operation. "Pakistan is not deterred by these threats," he said. "This only strengthens the Pakistani government's resolve to fight the War on Terror." 'Major Step Forward' Condoleezza Rice, President Bush's national security adviser, told Fox News Friday that if al-Zawahri were captured, it would be "a major step forward" in the war on terrorism. "It is always a good thing to capture a major Al Qaeda leader," she said. "It does damage to the organization ... but the capture of one man is not going to destroy Al Qaeda." Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Richard Myers, told Fox News that U.S. officials still don't have a clear picture of what's happening or who exactly is being targeted. "I think we're still waiting for the situation to continue to unfold, still trying to learn exactly what's happening on the ground," Myers said. "We're just going to have to wait and see who they have, if they have anybody." Calling Pakistan a "very good partner in this war on terrorism," Myers noted that the terrain in the tribal areas is difficult, the indigenous people aren't "particularly friendly" and the border isn't recognized. U.S. counterterrorism officials told Fox News that the United States military is providing surveillance assistance to the Pakistanis in the Waziristan operation. This likely includes unmanned predator drones, satellite technology and perhaps spy planes. 'They Are Not Coming Out' Pakistani forces battled with hundreds of militants in five villages near South Waziristan's main town of Wana, pounding fortress-like mud-brick compounds as entrenched suspects fought back. An intelligence official said "dozens" were killed Thursday, and some of their hide-outs had been flattened. At least 41 people -- 15 Pakistani soldiers and 26 suspected militants -- were killed earlier this week in fighting in the area. This semiautonomous tribal region, which has resisted outside control for centuries, has long been considered a likely hiding place for the top two Al Qaeda leaders. Bin Laden and al-Zawahri -- who also serves as bin Laden's personal physician -- have traveled together in the past, and both appeared jointly in videotapes released shortly after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States. In a broadcast on Feb. 24, Al-Zawahri, 52, taunted Bush and threatened more attacks on the United States. The United States has offered a $25 million reward for information leading to al-Zawahri's capture. On Thursday, the U.S. House of Representatives doubled the reward for bin Laden's capture to $50 million. Under pressure from Washington, Pakistan has arrested more than 500 Al Qaeda suspects and has turned most over to the United States. The last major capture was that of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed (search), the former Al Qaeda No. 3, who was nabbed on March 1, 2003, near the capital. He is being held at an undisclosed U.S. location. Afghanistan Nabs Their Own Bad Guys A spokesman for Afghan President Hamid Karzai (search) said U.S. and Afghan troops have captured "semi-senior" terrorist leaders along the border with Pakistan, as they tightened security along the rugged frontier. Presidential spokesman Jawed Ludin said it was unclear if those detained had fled the battle in Pakistan, and declined to give any details of who might be in custody. "Some of the arrests have included semi-senior leadership within the terrorist elements on the Afghan side, possibly with strong links to Al Qaeda," he said. U.S. officials say they are watching to see if the Pakistani actions send militants back into Afghanistan, where U.S. troops operate freely. A senior Afghan Defense Ministry official said Afghan and U.S. troops tightened their cordon along the frontier three days ago. Some 250 extra Afghan troops left Kabul Thursday for the border province of Khost, just to the north, Gen. Atiqullah Ludin said. "Al Qaeda cannot escape or enter Afghan soil," he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 I am wondering if this is a diversion for something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief skin Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 just go in there with overwhelming man power and do what has to be done 300 or 400 al qaeda/ taliban should not be a problem, slaughter them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 It is far more humiliating for these guys to be captured given all of the talk about martyrdom. I don't care how many henchmen die, but I'd love to have another photo of a touseled al Qaeda leader being led away, especially al Zawahiri who is such a notorious figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLusby Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Agreed! We need to to tell Pakistan to move aside and start sending in the penatrator missles that dig down about 50' and blow-up any fortified position. This would take the U.S. about 2 minutes and about 2-3 days to sort the mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 I keep picturing Butch and Sundance in the bodega, with the whole damn Bolivian army gathering outside. Only this time I'm rooting for the army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Originally posted by Om I keep picturing Butch and Sundance in the bodega, with the whole damn Bolivian army gathering outside. Only this time I'm rooting for the army. Nice! :asta: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Any updates on this story, fellas? Anyone got some inside scoops on what's happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsbadd Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 AHH Springtime in Pakistan... Good work fellas,go get em. It took awhile for the Pakistani's to come around but I quess they figured we weren't leaving anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SkinsHokie Fan Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 The Pakistani army needs to get this done quickly now. As I said in the other thread my dad's uncle belives this will be done within the next 48-72 hours. However if it starts to take longer, and more lives are lost the parliment is going to start putting pressure on Musharraf to end this. Right now the cry in Pakistan is "We are attacking our own people" The quicker this is done the less you'll hear of that and the better the world will be. But as always Musharaff has to walk a fine line here of serving an ally (being us) and appeasing the political parties in Pakistan so that Musharaff and not some lunatic is in power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tchrpe1 Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 If the Pakastani army can't get it done the U.S troops on the other side of the border can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 A little birdie said this may only be a local tribal chief Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tchrpe1 Posted March 20, 2004 Share Posted March 20, 2004 If so then why aren't they turning and running. It was reported that they usually don't engage regular military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smsmith40 Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 Even if its only a local chief its a good sign that the Pakistani government are serious about bringing the rule of law to what is essentially bandit country. BTW Sir Luscious, I know you wouldn't be aware you might be giving offense but the term you used in the thread title is regarded in this part of the world as deeply offensive, on the same level as the N word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancalagon the Black Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 I was just about to write that the term in the subject heading is a very offensive slur, but smsmith had already pointed it out. Not your fault, Sir Luscious, but perhaps a moderator can change the thread title to "Go Pakistanis!" or something like that? Pretty please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Punani2 Posted March 21, 2004 Author Share Posted March 21, 2004 I think you guys are a little too PC for your own good... Here's a pakistani message board where pakistanis id themselves as Pakis... http://paknews.com/view_comments.php?talk_id=80408 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancalagon the Black Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 I think you have no idea what you're talking about. Does Chris Rock use the "n" word to refer to black people? Would a white person be able to get away from that? If a black person politely asked you not to use that term, would you tell him he was being "too PC for his own good"? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and chalk this up to ignorance. But it's a very, very bad term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Punani2 Posted March 21, 2004 Author Share Posted March 21, 2004 Originally posted by Ancalagon the Black I think you have no idea what you're talking about. Does Chris Rock use the "n" word to refer to black people? Would a white person be able to get away from that? If a black person politely asked you not to use that term, would you tell him he was being "too PC for his own good"? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and chalk this up to ignorance. But it's a very, very bad term. It's an insult according to who? This is the first time I've ever heard of someone calling a Pakistani an abreviated form of Pakistani an insult. Can you give me the exactly def of what Pakis means? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancalagon the Black Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 It's an insult according to me. Half my family is from Pakistan. The other half is in India (where the slur is used by Hindus to denigrate Muslim Indians). It's also used a lot in the UK to denigrate anyone who looks South Asian (in the same vein as "curry-muncher," "dot-head," or "brown n****r"). Is that good enough for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Punani2 Posted March 21, 2004 Author Share Posted March 21, 2004 Originally posted by Ancalagon the Black It's an insult according to me. Half my family is from Pakistan. The other half is in India (where the slur is used by Hindus to denigrate Muslim Indians). It's also used a lot in the UK to denigrate anyone who looks South Asian (in the same vein as "curry-muncher," "dot-head," or "brown n****r"). Is that good enough for you? Well, considering I don't live in the UK or India you can see that I didn't know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancalagon the Black Posted March 21, 2004 Share Posted March 21, 2004 No worries. I said in my first post of the thread that it wasn't your fault. Once it's been pointed out, though, you shouldn't have to question my credentials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Punani2 Posted March 21, 2004 Author Share Posted March 21, 2004 Originally posted by Ancalagon the Black No worries. I said in my first post of the thread that it wasn't your fault. Once it's been pointed out, though, you shouldn't have to question my credentials. Well, if I didn't question how would I know? duh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 Chrissakes, does everything have to become a referendum on free speech? No, a polite request to change a word in a title that is openly offensive to a great many people is NOT "PC overreaction," nor does my now having done so mean we're all inexorably heading down a "slippery slope" toward censorship or a PC State. I just means that this one time we'll do something that seems the "right thing to do," and not spend the next three days wondering if the world is coming to an end because we opted to err on the side of NOT offending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WallyG3 Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 http://apnews.excite.com/article/20040322/D81FJDUO1.html Al-Qaida Suspects May Have Fled in Tunnel Mar 22, 1:56 PM (ET) By AHSANULLAH WAZIR WANA, Pakistan (AP) - Pakistani forces discovered a mile-long tunnel leading from a besieged mud fortress to a dry stream bed, and said Monday the secret passage may have allowed top al-Qaida suspects to escape toward the Afghan frontier. The revelation came as Pakistani authorities began DNA tests to identify foreign terrorists killed in the weeklong offensive in South Waziristan, where thousands of troops have been battling hundreds of die-hard militants. Forces first found a tunnel connecting the heavily fortified compounds of two tribal elders - Nek Mohammed and Sharif Khan - who have been leading supporters of some 500-600 foreign terrorists, said Brig. Mahmood Shah, chief of security for the tribal areas. From that passage, they found the mile-long tunnel running under the town of Kaloosha, about nine miles from the Afghan border, to a dry stream bed on the edge of the craggy, treacherous mountains that straddle the frontier. "There is a possibility that the tunnel may have been used at the start of the operation," Shah told journalists in Peshawar, the provincial capital. Three senior officials have told The Associated Press that they believe al-Qaida No. 2 Ayman al-Zawahri may have been at the site, though the government has repeatedly said it does not know who is inside. President Gen. Pervez Musharraf said Thursday that a "high-value" target was likely involved. The tunnel, which undoubtedly took months to construct, was another indication an important fugitive was in the area at some point. South Waziristan is considered the most likely hideout for al-Zawahri and his boss, terror chief Osama bin Laden. The Pakistani military has clamped a 20-square-mile cordon around Kaloosha and several other tribal towns in South Waziristan, and say they are confident nobody has escaped the area. But the cordon did not exist at the disastrous start of the operation Mar. 16, when Pakistani forces who thought they were going to arrest local tribesmen were surprised by a ferocious barrage from within the compound walls. Fifteen soldiers and 26 militants died in the initial assault; the military sent in thousands of reinforcements over the following two days. Pakistan's military said it was conducting DNA tests to identify six suspected foreign terrorists killed in the fighting, but would not elaborate on whether they included any important terror figure. Five bodies of what appeared to be 25- to 30-year-old men were displayed to journalists late Sunday at a military mortuary in Rawalpindi, a city near the capital Islamabad. Al-Zawahri, an Egyptian surgeon, is 52 years old. The bodies were laid out on stretchers and in open coffins in bloodied clothes. Military officials said they were all foreigners, but it was impossible for journalists to determine their nationalities. They said the sixth body had decomposed and that it would have been inhumane to show it. "At this moment, whatever information we have about the tests we would not like to give out until we are 200 percent sure who they are," army spokesman Maj. Gen. Shaukat Sultan told a press conference. "For us, every foreigner who is caught or killed is important, because we do not know who they are," Sultan told AP earlier. "We took the decision to do DNA tests to confirm the identities of these people." "I cannot say if any among them is al-Zawahri," he said. The developments came as Gen. John Abizaid, leader of U.S. Central Command, made a visit to Pakistan. Sultan said Abizaid met with a top Pakistani army official, and insisted the trip had nothing to do with the offensive in Waziristan. Abizaid's last known visit to Pakistan came on Jan. 16, when he met with President Gen. Pervez Musharraf. That trip was just a week after the last major operation by Pakistan's military in South Waziristan. In that operation, Ahmad Said al-Kadr, an Egyptian-born Canadian citizen suspected of being a top al-Qaida financier, was killed along with seven other suspects. In Wana on Monday, an 18-member tribal peace delegation crossed through the military cordon for talks with elders of the Yargul Khel tribe, believed to be fighting alongside the al-Qaida militants. The delegation carried a white flag and brought with it three government demands for the fighters: free 12 soldiers and two government officials taken captive last week; hand over tribesmen involved in the fighting; and kick out any foreigners or show the military where to track them down. Shah said that "in light of the past experience we are not very hopeful" the delegation would succeed. Some 5,000-6,000 Pakistani forces have been fighting 400-500 foreign militants and tribesmen in what has become Pakistan's largest military operation in its tribal regions since the government threw its support behind the U.S.-led war on terrorism in late 2001. Shah said 123 suspects have been arrested in the week-old offensive. He said the homes of 13 tribesmen accused of harboring the terrorists were leveled on Sunday and Monday. Security officials say their prisoners included Pakistanis, Arabs, Chechens, Uzbeks and ethnic Uighurs from China's predominantly Muslim Xinjiang province. --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancalagon the Black Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 Forces first found a tunnel connecting the heavily fortified compounds of two tribal elders - Nek Mohammed and Sharif Khan - who have been leading supporters of some 500-600 foreign terrorists, said Brig. Mahmood Shah, chief of security for the tribal areas. Don't they have attack dogs or something to track them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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