ABC: Secret Service 'Aware' of Apparent ISIS Flag Photo in Front of the White House

[JMS]

1.  There was an extended period of time in which our policy with respect to Iraq was regime change, which meant trying to create a situation where the regime was unstable and fail, which meant destabilizing the regime.  Even directly prior to and after the invasion, we wanted to destabilize the regime so that it would fail and the war would be easier.

It was never American policy to create a separate homeland for the Kurds. We supplied them arms, not to destabilize the national government but to allow the Kurds to secure themselves ideally to strengthen their ability to participate in the national government,

The reason why we have consistently opposed Kurdish independence is because Turkey opposes Kurdish independence and Turkey is a much more vital ally.

 

2.  What weapons have we given the Kurds post the creation of the current Iraqi government.  Please provide a like detailing the arms shipments from the US to the Kurds.

What weapons did we give Afghanistan in the 1980's? We know today the US spent billions, but it was covert aid so we didn't own up to it. All we hear are the rumblings... and we also know the Kurds are stanch US allies, whenever there is trouble we seem to have boots on the ground cooperating closely with well armed and trained Kurdish Peshmerga..

 

We know Seymour Hersh broke a story in 2004 the Israeli's were helping the Kurds Militarily and Financially while they were technically under US occupation.

 

Seymour Hersh: Israel Helping Kurds Financially, Militarily

2004 June 27 Sunday

 

 

Here is a more recent article about the CIA expanding it's base outside of Irbil in Kurdish Territory...  It quotes many kurdish and special ops sources talking about the Special Forces and CIA's long history of supporting the Kurds.

 

Expansion of ‘secret’ facility in Iraq suggests closer U.S.-Kurd ties

 

 

july 2014,

 

the peshmerga has worked closely over the years with the CIA, U.S. special forces and the Joint Special Operations Command, the military’s most secretive task force, which has become a bulwark of counter terrorism operations. Peshmerga forces already are manning checkpoints and bunkers to protect the facility (expanded CIA facility),

....

“It’s no secret that the American special forces and CIA have a close relationship with the Peshmerga,” said the Kurdish official, who spoke only on the condition of anonymity because he was discussing covert military operations. He added that the facility had operated even “after the Americans were forced out of Iraq by Maliki,” a reference to the 2011 U.S. troop withdrawal after the Obama administration and the Iraqi government couldn’t agree on a framework for U.S. forces remaining in the country.

 

But the official wasn’t shy discussing the past arrangement and potential for a future expansion of the relationship.

“Most of our ‘mukhabarat’ worked directly alongside both the CIA and (JSOC) CIA   throughout the war in Iraq because of our language ability and long experience battling both Saddam and radical terrorists,” he said, using the Arabic term for “information office,” usually ascribed to local intelligence.

“Peshmerga fighters fought closely alongside the American Green Berets throughout northern Iraq in places like Mosul, Tal Afar and Kirkuk because we are very professional and trusted,” he said. “And many of our men would work directly with the most secret units as interpreters and Iraqi experts.”

...

A retired American special forces officer said it would be a relatively simple matter for the United States to work with peshmerga forces. “A lot of those pesh guys were known and respected for their training and trustworthiness by ODA, OGA and the Secret Squirrels long before the 2003 invasion,” he said, using the acronyms for “Operational Detachment Alpha,” the official designation of the Green Berets, and “other government agency,” a common slang term for the CIA. “Secret Squirrels” is a term soldiers use to describe Joint Special Operations Command units that usually don’t have an obvious unit designation.

A special operations officer, who spoke only on the condition of anonymity because he’s legally bound not to publicly discuss his career without specific Defense Department permission, said working with the Kurds would overcome a number of difficult issues that would be present as U.S. advisers worked with the Iraqi army.

“It’s a natural fit that as these guys look around at the collapsed Iraqi army and how all of its remaining competent units are either infiltrated by or directly led by Iranian Revolutionary Guard commanders that there would be a high degree of discomfort directly operating with them,” he said. “But the Kurds are trustworthy, reliable and already know how to fight alongside your units. It’s a natural fit to run an operation from Irbil with the pesh, while the other advisers in Baghdad try to stem the bleeding of the Iraqi army and protect that huge U.S. embassy complex.

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/07/11/233126/expansion-of-secret-facility-in.html#storylink=cpy

 

 

 

 

3.  To compare the weapons we've provided to Taiwan and the Kurds is laughable.

 

You mispeak..   What we provide to the Kurds,  and what we SELL to Taiwan..   We don't give Taiwan freebies.  I agree it's not comparable,  except to say we provide access to defensive weapons for both.   The weapons we provide Taiwan,  namely F-15's aren't necessary for the Kurds because we directly ensure the Kurd's airspace and have for twenty five years..

[PeterMP]

You mispeak..   What we provide to the Kurds,  and what we SELL to Taiwan..   We don't give Taiwan freebies.  I agree it's not comparable,  except to say we provide access to defensive weapons for both.   The weapons we provide Taiwan,  namely F-15's aren't necessary for the Kurds because we directly ensure the Kurd's airspace and have for twenty five years..

 

I missed the part where you provided any information that we supplied ANY weapons to the Kurds (post the fall of Saddam).

 

So, our aid to the Kurds is comparable to our aid to Taiwan if we assume that our aid to the Kurds is similar to groups in a completely different situation (We wanted the Afghanis to resist the Soviet Union.  We don't want the Kurds to resist the Iraqi government or the Turkey, and if we were arming the Kurds, we'd likely upset the Turks and the Iraqis.) decades ago even though there is no evidence of that.

 

AND we assume we aren't giving similar aid to Taiwan even though we KNOW we are selling them large amounts of military equipment (which nobody believes they are paying fair market price for), and we actually have a law that states that we will supply them arms for defense, and will come to their aid if invaded, AND we've been doing this continually since 1979 (unlike the Kurds, who we've at various times looked the other way as governments have slaughtered them).

 

Oh, and we've ONLY secured the air space of Kurdish areas in IRAQ for the last 20 year.  Not any of the other countries where Kurds like.

 

I wonder why that is.

 

It couldn't have anything to do with the fact that our interest were more about Iraq than supporting the Kurds.

 

The fact of the matter is that there is no real evidence that we are arming the Kurds since the fall of Saddam.  It would be against our lager strategic goals in the area (a stable and secure Turkey and Iraq), and there is a long history of us forgetting about the Kurds to achieve larger strategic goals in the region.

 

(The Israel/Kurdish relationship is different.  The Israelis support the Kurds as a way to stick it to Turkey and Iran, who have historically supported Hamas and Hezbollah (the enemy of the friend to my enemy is my friend).  I also suspect there is a bit of an identification there as historically persecuted minorities that are seeking a home land.  But I know that you don't want to claim that the Israelis always do what we want and will act in US interest even if they do not feel that said actions are not in their best interest.  The end result is that Israeli/Kurdish interactions are irrelevant to this conversation.  It would not at all surprise if the Israelis were arming and training Kurds even in the face of (private) US pressure not to.)