Liberal vs Progressive....

[JMS]

I guess it is pointless to argue with JMS, since he sees no difference between "liberal" and "progressive".

Again, The dictionary sees no difference between the words. The thesaurus sees no difference between the words. The folks using the words in national politics like Obama, Clinton, LBJ, Kennedy, Truman, and FDR saw no difference in the terms...

The folks trying to say their is a difference are the idiots on the extreme right. They're trying to deamonize the word progressive as they've deamonized the word liberal. Only they're inventing their own meaning for the words.

Then again, in the public sphere such labels have been rendered meaningless since they no longer are used by the proper definition (same goes for Socialist, which has been misused by the right for a long time.)

I would aruge misusing the word progressive is what's going on today.. It's starting now. I would also argue the only people who misuse the word socialist are again Americans. The rest of the world recognizes the word socialist is the moderate left political position, the mirror opposite of the word conservative with is the moderate right political position.

[JMS]

Clinton was Liberal until the GOP took over congress (Congressional post office scandal, HillaryCare,raising taxes retroactively, initially trying to force openly gays in the military) then after that, he began to Triangulate and learned how to take credit for some of the GOP's Contract of America Successes

Clinton was never a liberal. Clinton was a moderate who put his finger to the wind on most issues before deciding which way to go. He pushed to the center and stole issues away from the Republicans and upset the liberal wing of his own party.

Clinton's philosophy was if you weren't upsetting the fringe in your own party you weren't doing your job.

Clinton held spending down, balanced the budget, supported NAFTA, supported free trade, declared the era of big government was over, and reformed social security...

Those were all conservative republican issues which Clinton took from them and ran with because they had popular support.

Clinton wasn't an idealog. Johnson was the last Liberal American President.

[JMS]

Someone else mentioned it, but the 60's left were most certainly not progressives. In fact, they hated the early progressive movement and many of its leaders..

I get it, you liked Truman and Kennedy, so you don't consider them Progressives, maybe not even Liberal. A totally arbitrary thought structure on your part.

The Fair Deal of President Truman was a comprehensive collection of domestic liberal policies that strengthened some New Deal programs and attempted to go even further than FDR did on others.

LBJ was a progressive who's philosophies were right in line with both FDR and Truman..

• Social Security under Truman was amended to include domestic and household employees, non-profit workers, and the self-employed, adding 10 million new beneficiaries and increasing benefits by an average of 77.5%.
  
• The Fair Labor Standards Act under Truman was also amended, increasing the minimum wage from $.40 to $.75 an hour.
  
• The Tennessee Valley Authority again under Truman received a higher appropriation, along with the Rural Electrification Administration.
  
• Truman gave more funding for the Reclamation Bureau's hydroelectric, water control, and irrigation projects were put in for the west.
  
• the Housing Act of 1949 provided for slum clearance programs associated with urban renewal, allowed the Federal Housing Administration to insure mortgages, appropriated federal funds to construct more than 800,000 low-income housing units, and provided FHA financing to rural homeowners.
  

Kennedy too had a progressive agenda, he just didn't have the know how to implement it effectively. Johnson who had served in both the house and senate for decades ( about a decade each), and was the former Senate majority leader just understood how the bodies worked better than did Kennedy.

But both Kennedy and Johnson were reformers as were Truman and FDR. In fact LBJ's most famous legislative achivement Civil Rights Act, was introduced by Kennedy LBJ sheperded it through the house and senate after Kennedies death.

Likewise Johnson gave the first two Medicare cards to former President Harry S. Truman and his wife Bess after signing the medicare bill into law at the Truman Library.

[TheLongshot]

Again, The dictionary sees no difference between the words.

Really?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/liberal

6 a : of, favoring, or based upon the principles of liberalism b capitalized : of or constituting a political party advocating or associated with the principles of political liberalism; especially : of or constituting a political party in the United Kingdom associated with ideals of individual especially economic freedom, greater individual participation in government, and constitutional, political, and administrative reforms designed to secure these objectives

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/liberalism

2 a often capitalized : a movement in modern Protestantism emphasizing intellectual liberty and the spiritual and ethical content of Christianity b : a theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition, the self-regulating market, and the gold standard c : a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties; specifically : such a philosophy that considers government as a crucial instrument for amelioration of social inequities (as those involving race, gender, or class) d capitalized : the principles and policies of a Liberal party

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/progressives

1 a : one that is progressive b : one believing in moderate political change and especially social improvement by governmental action

2 capitalized : a member of any of various United States political parties: as a : a member of a predominantly agrarian minor party that around 1912 split off from the Republicans; specifically : bull moose b : a follower of Robert M. La Follette in the presidential campaign of 1924 c : a follower of Henry A. Wallace in the presidential campaign of 1948

I have no clue what source ask.com gets their definition, but I know that at least Merriam-Webster is a respectable source.

The folks trying to say their is a difference are the idiots on the extreme right. They're trying to deamonize the word progressive as they've deamonized the word liberal. Only they're inventing their own meaning for the words.

Just as you are and probably most of America. The words have been misused so often that they don't truly understand what they mean anymore, just like "decimate".

I would aruge misusing the word progressive is what's going on today.. It's starting now. I would also argue the only people who misuse the word socialist are again Americans. The rest of the world recognizes the word socialist is the moderate left political position, the mirror opposite of the word conservative with is the moderate right political position.

Well, it is the moderate left position in the rest of the world because the political spectrum in this country is so far skewed to the right. While opponents like to call Obama a far left Socialist, he'd probably be a mild conservative in Europe.

[luckydevil]

?? So now you are saying Alexander Hamilton was a liberal? Cause the federal reserve or central bank of the United States was originally his idea.

Likewise every Republican President in the 20's and 21st century has supported both the federal reserve and the income tax...

Alexander Hamilton was not a liberal, because there wasn't a liberal movement in his time ( the modern kind). But he sure did have an influence on the modern liberal movement.

Well yes. But the point is that the federal reserve and the income tax are policy ideas that have roots in the progressive movement. A economic conservative of Wilson's time would have argued against them.

I get it, you liked Truman and Kennedy, so you don't consider them Progressives, maybe not even Liberal. A totally arbitrary thought structure on your part.

I am not sure how you arrived to that conclusion. I in fact have a strong disdain for Truman and don't really have a strong opinion on JFK.

When I am talking about the 60's left, I am not talking about JFK liberalism. I am talking about the New Left.