Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile

[Sarge]

Look what's in the Compost this morning. Still wondering who is next on the sh!t list? Iran has been the real problem in the region for a long time. There is zero chance we will allow them the opportunity to have nuclear weapons.

U.S. Eyes Pressing Uprising In Iran

Officials Cite Al Qaeda Links, Nuclear Program

By Glenn Kessler

Washington Post Staff Writer

Sunday, May 25, 2003; Page A01

The Bush administration, alarm-ed by intelligence suggesting that al Qaeda operatives in Iran had a role in the May 12 suicide bombings in Saudi Arabia, has suspended once-promising contacts with Iran and appears ready to embrace an aggressive policy of trying to destabilize the Iranian government, administration officials said.

Senior Bush administration officials will meet Tuesday at the White House to discuss the evolving strategy toward the Islamic republic, with Pentagon officials pressing hard for public and private actions that they believe could lead to the toppling of the government through a popular uprising, officials said.

The State Department, which had encouraged some form of engagement with the Iranians, appears inclined to accept such a policy, especially if Iran does not take any visible steps to deal with the suspected al Qaeda operatives before Tuesday, officials said. But State Department officials are concerned that the level of popular discontent there is much lower than Pentagon officials believe, leading to the possibility that U.S. efforts could ultimately discredit reformers in Iran.

In any case, the Saudi Arabia bombings have ended the tentative signs of engagement between Iran and the United States that had emerged during the wars against Afghanistan and Iraq.

U.S. and Iranian officials had met periodically to discuss issues of mutual concern, including search-and-rescue missions and the tracking down of al Qaeda operatives. But, after the suicide bombings at three residential compounds in Riyadh, the Bush administration canceled the next planned meeting.

"We're headed down the same path of the last 20 years," one State Department official said. "An inflexible, unimaginative policy of just say no."

U.S. officials have also been deeply concerned about Iran's nuclear weapons program, which has the support of both elected reformers and conservative clerics. The Bush administration has pressed the International Atomic Energy Agency, the U.N. nuclear watchdog, to issue a critical report next month on Iran's nuclear activities. Officials have sought to convince Russia and China -- two major suppliers of Iran's nuclear power program -- that Iran is determined to possess nuclear weapons, a campaign that one U.S. official said is winning support.

But a major factor in the new stance toward Iran consists of what have been called "very troubling intercepts" before and after the Riyadh attacks, which killed 34 people, including nine suicide bombers. The intercepts suggested that al Qaeda operatives in Iran were involved in the planning of the bombings.

Earlier this week, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld accused Iran of harboring al Qaeda members. "There's no question but that there have been and are today senior al Qaeda leaders in Iran, and they are busy," Rumsfeld said. Iranian officials, however, have vehemently denied that they have granted al Qaeda leaders safe haven in the country.

Until the Saudi bombings, some officials said, Iran had been relatively cooperative on al Qaeda. Since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, Iran has turned over al Qaeda officials to Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan. In talks, U.S. officials had repeatedly warned Iranian officials that if any al Qaeda operatives in Iran are implicated in attacks against Americans, it would have serious consequences for relations between the two countries.

Those talks, however, were held with representatives of Iran's foreign ministry. Other parts of the Iranian government are controlled not by elected reformers, but by conservative mullahs.

A senior administration official who is skeptical of the Pentagon's arguments said most of the al Qaeda members -- fewer than a dozen -- appear to be located in an isolated area of northeastern Iran, near the border with Afghanistan. He described the area as a drug-smuggling terrorist haven that is tolerated by key members of the Revolutionary Guards in part because they skim money off some of the activities there. It is not clear how much control the central Iranian government has over this area, he said.

"I don't think the elected government knows much about it," he said. "Why should you punish the rest of Iran," he asked, just because the government cannot act in this area?

Flynt Leverett, who recently left the White House to join the Brookings Institution's Saban Center for Middle East Policy, said the administration may be taking a gamble. "It is imprudent to assume that the Islamic Republic will collapse like a house of cards in a time frame that is going to be meaningful to us," he said. "What it means is we will end up with an Iran that has nuclear weapons and no dialogue with the United States with regard to our terrorist concerns."

Ever since President Bush labeled Iran last year as part of an "axis of evil" -- along with North Korea and Iraq -- the administration has struggled to define its policy toward the Islamic republic, which terminated relations with the United States after Iran's 1979 revolution. The administration never formally adopted a policy of "regime change," but it also never seriously tried to establish a dialogue.

In July, Bush signaled a harder line when he issued a strongly worded presidential statement in which he praised large pro-democracy street demonstrations in Iran. Administration officials said at the time that they had abandoned any hope of working with President Mohammad Khatami and his reformist allies in the Iranian government, and would turn their attention toward democracy supporters among the Iranian people.

But the prospect of war with Iraq reopened some discreet contacts, which took place under U.N. supervision in Europe. The contacts encouraged some in the State Department to believe that there was an opening for greater cooperation.

In an interview in February with the Los Angeles Times, Deputy Secretary of State Richard L. Armitage drew a distinction between the confrontational approach the administration had taken with Iraq and North Korea and the approach it had adopted with Iran. "The axis of evil was a valid comment, [but] I would note there's one dramatic difference between Iran and the other two axes of evil, and that would be its democracy. [And] you approach a democracy differently," Armitage said.

At one of the meetings, in early January, the United States signaled that it would target the Iraq-based camps of the Mujaheddin-e Khalq (MEK), or People's Mujaheddin, a major group opposing the Iranian government.

The MEK soon became caught up in the policy struggle between the State Department and the Pentagon.

After the camps were bombed, the U.S. military arranged a cease-fire with the group, infuriating the Iranians. Some Pentagon officials, impressed by the military discipline and equipment of the thousands of MEK troops, began to envision them as a potential military force for use against Tehran, much like the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan.

But the MEK is also listed as a terrorist organization by the State Department. Under pressure from State, the White House earlier this month ordered the Pentagon to disarm the MEK troops -- a decision that was secretly conveyed by U.S. officials to Iranian representatives at a meeting in Geneva on May 3.

Nine days later, the suicide bombers struck in Saudi Arabia.

[Larry]

I would think that comparing an administration which you appear to support to "a blind squirrel" would not support your cause.

[stratoman]

I say what ever it takes. We have known for a long time that the Ilamic fundamentalists(and many moderates) are our enemy, be it because of our long time support of Israel and it's right to exist as a sovereign state or the blatant jealousy of the wealth and success of our great nation. 9/11 was just a wake up call. Lets call a spade a spade. They have said time and time again that this is a "holly war" a "jihad". This is a war about religion and intolerance brought on by them and not by us. Certainly a diplomatic approach is preferred but they are hell bent with their cause and there seems to be no reasoning with them, so it seems to boil down to a "kill or be killed" solution. Hopefully in the end we can some day live in peace were tolerance is a global ideology.:soapbox:

of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong

[Sarge]

I would think that comparing an administration which you appear to support to "a blind squirrel" would not support your cause.

I was referring to the Post

[tex]

Just saw on Drudge Report that the U.S. is building up troop strength in the Middle East. 20,000 additional troops are being sent to "stabilize" Iraq.

[JackC]

Let's expand the empire! Let the tanks roll to Tehran! Love live King George!

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

This is absolute lunacy.

I understand that the U.S. still smarts from the 1979 hostage crisis in Iran, and I understand that Iran was linked to further hostage-takings in the 1980s. But Iran seems to have moderated since the death of Khomeini and the end of the Iran-Iraq war in the late 1980s. That's not to say that Iran is in any way a western society, but that's not a crime -- it's their privilege.

Iran's "theocratic republic" puts a religious leader as nominal head of state, but has genuine democratic elections for president and legislature -- this according to our own CIA. In fact, surveying the Muslim world in the Middle East, arguably only Turkey has a more democratic government than Iran.

The last time the U.S. intervened in Iran was to create the 1953 coup that threw out Iran's democratic government and installed the brutal dictatorship of the Shah. That action arguably had its appropriate reaction, finally, with the 1979 Islamic Revolution in Iran.

If we do this crap again, or even are shown to be trying, we deserve all the Islamic terrorists that the world of 1.2 billion Muslims can throw at us.

[redman]

For now I think this is simply saber rattling on our part. Iran's too big of a nut to crack militarily for us right now, and they are indeed moderate enough at least hope (and encourage) a popular secular movement that further moderates them and steers them away from WMD development and radical Islam.

Moreover, there was a report my father emailed to me today of a C-130 landing in the Sudan full of military "consultants". I have a feeling that we'll be "consulting" in earnest in Sudan before we take any overt, active role in Iran.

[JackC]

Be careful it was the Bush administration's "sabre rattling" that backed us into war in Iraq. "Rebuilding" Iraq is going to be a very costly thing, god knows what Iran will cost!

[Guest SkinsHokie Fan]

Let rebuilding Iraq be costly. The world will be better off when the new Iraq emerges.

As far as Iran is concerned I hope that we pour millions into the uprising that is ready to occur. My generation (20 somethings and younger) are sick and tired of the hypocritcal Shiite clerics that run Iran. There is a revolution festering amongst young people and amongst those that crave freedom in Iran. I hope to God that the United States gives this revolution all the resources it needs to topple this evil government in Tehran

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Originally posted by SkinsHokie Fan

There is a revolution festering amongst young people and amongst those that crave freedom in Iran. I hope to God that the United States gives this revolution all the resources it needs to topple this evil government in Tehran

OK, Hokie, let's hear about this revolution festering amongst young people who crave freedom in Iran. Please don't project western standards on Iran. I want to hear about all the young Iranians who are just waiting to overthrow their evil democratic government.

Please provide credible sources for this movement from within Iran, and not just opinions about what we think Iranians should be thinking and wanting.

Now, I've read debates ongoing in Iran about exactly how open their society should be. I've not seen anything to indicate broad revolutionary movements or an urge to overthrow their "evil" government.

So, please, improve my education about Iran. I'm ready to learn.

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

If you want see where this dangerous game is going -- this incredible Bush administration plan to destabilize the legitimate, democratic Iranian government -- all you need to know is that the U.S. is allowing northern Iraqi Kurds (alone among Iraqis) to remain armed.

Kurds compose 7% of Iran's population. It's highly possible that the Bush administration's plan is to arm and advise Iraqi Kurds to infiltrate Iran, destabilize the country and attempt a revolution. The same could happen in Turkey, which opposed the U.S. invasion of Iraq, and where 20% of the population are Kurds.

Keep in mind that Turkey and Iran are the two most democratic Muslim countries in the Middle East.

It ain't about democracy. It's about power, and it always has been.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/24/international/worldspecial/24IRAQ.html

The New York Times

May 24, 2003

U.S. May Let Kurds Keep Arms, Angering Shiites

By PATRICK E. TYLER

BAGHDAD, Iraq, May 23 — The American occupation authority in Iraq, apparently preserving the prewar distinction between Kurdish-controlled northern areas and the rest of the country, will allow Kurdish fighters to keep their assault rifles and heavy weapons, but require Shiite Muslim and other militias to surrender theirs, according to a draft directive.

The plan has engendered intense criticism by Shiite leaders involved in negotiations with American and British officials who have met privately with the heavily armed political groups that have moved into the power vacuum here.

"Maybe we didn't fight with the coalition, but we didn't fight against them," said Adel Abdul Mahdi, an official of the largest Shiite group, which is headed by Ayatollah Muhammad Bakr al-Hakim. "We want conditions where all militias are dissolved and we will not accept that other militias will be allowed to stay there with their weapons while we will not be there with ours."

Under the draft order, obtained by The New York Times, "militias that assisted coalition forces who remain under the supervision of coalition forces" will be authorized "to possess automatic or heavy weapons."

In a press conference today, Lt. Gen. David D. McKiernan, commander of allied land forces in Iraq, said that under the directive there "will be no militias inside of Iraq," but then added that the Kurdish forces, known as pesh merga, "are a different story."

"The pesh mergas fought with coalition forces and we look to leave them with some of their forces north of the green line," he said, referring to the line that once divided the Kurds into two self-governing enclaves in the north from the parts of Iraq under the control of Saddam Hussein.

The directive would allow ordinary Iraqis to retain some arms, including pistols, rifles and shotguns, but would ban AK-47 automatic assault rifles, machine guns, mortars, grenades and heavier weapons such as artillery, antitank weapons and armored vehicles.

The top civilian administrator in Iraq, L. Paul Bremer III, issued a separate directive today formally dissolving Iraq's armed forces as they existed under Mr. Hussein. Mr. Bremer abolished the Ministry of Defense, the Ministry of Information, the Republican Guard and other security institutions "which constituted and supported the most repressive activities of Saddam Hussein's regime."

A spokesman for Mr. Bremer said in a statement that the coalition planned to create "in the near future, a New Iraqi Corps."

"Under civilian control, that Corps will be professional, nonpolitical, militarily effective, and representative of all Iraqis," the statement said.

Besides the armed Shiite groups, the main militia in Iraq are the Kurds and the Free Iraqi Forces of the Iraqi National Congress under Ahmad Chalabi.

General McKiernan said today that Mr. Chalabi's militia was being "demilitarized."

When Mr. Chalabi's militia first surfaced in Iraq last month, it received training from under the supervision of an American Special Forces officer.

On Thursday night, armed fighters from the Iraqi National Congress engaged in a running gun battle with unknown foes during what was described as a search by Mr. Chalabi's forces for senior Baath Party members in a Baghdad suburb.

After the firefight, American troops raided Mr. Chalabi's headquarters at Baghdad's Hunting Club, arrested 35 of his militiamen and seized their weapons. They were released, Mr. Chalabi's group said in a statement, after an American military officer assigned as a liaison to the group intervened.

Kurdish and Shiite Muslim leaders confirmed in interviews this week that senior military commanders, including Lt. Gen. John Abizaid, the deputy commander of American forces in the region, and General McKiernan had briefed them on the disarmament directive and issued some pointed warnings that they would be disarmed by force if they did not comply.

In one meeting this week, General Abizaid implied that that one militia, the Badr Brigade, was controlled by a "foreign government," meaning Iran, according to several Iraqis who attended that meeting. The Badr Brigade is under the command of Ayatollah Hakim, who arrived in Iraq from exile in Iran earlier this month.

The directive comes at a time when the strength of each group's militia has become a symbol of power and potential leverage for the Iraqis seeking to establish a provisional government. Some of these Iraqis are complaining that American and British leaders are pursuing a policy that will alienate the Shiites, who make up 60 percent of Iraq's roughly 24 million people.

American civilian and military leaders insist they are trying to bring order out of chaos here and to begin a process of disarmament that will pave the way for building a professional Iraqi military force.

The muscular posture against the Iranian-backed militia of Ayatollah Hakim is in accordance with recent sharp pronouncements by the Bush administration, which has accused Iran of giving support to leaders of Al Qaeda.

Mr. Abdul-Mahdi of Ayatollah Hakim's Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq said the Badr Brigade had more than 10,000 soldiers under arms in Iraq. American officials are deeply suspicious of this force because it was financed and trained in Iran, where Ayatollah Hakim maintained his base of operations during Mr. Hussein's rule.

The conflict over arms policy in Iraq was evident this week when allied forces clashed with militiamen whose ranks have been growing in strength and weaponry since the end of the war.

In Baquba last Sunday, American forces ejected a Shiite militia force from a municipal building the group had seized about 50 miles northeast of Baghdad. American troops killed one militiaman and arrested dozens of others, a military official in the city said today.

Kurdish forces also have had their arms confiscated by coalition troops in numerous incidents. But Jalal Talabani, the Kurdish leader whose forces have cooperated closely with the Americans in northern Iraq, said in an interview today that he had been assured that Kurdish forces would retain their heavy weapons, including tanks, armored personnel carriers, antiaircraft weapons, artillery and heavy machine guns. He estimated the size of those forces to be about 100,000, but other estimates are around 70,000.

Saying he was loath to criticize his "friends and allies" in Washington, Mr. Talabani said that if the Americans "want to reduce the influence of others" like Iran, on the Shiites, "they must request that Hakim and his group" be integrated into the new Iraqi armed forces.

It was not clear what the reaction of neighboring Turkey to the new directive would be. Turkey, a NATO ally, angered the Bush administration by refusing to allow American troops to move through Turkey to open a full-fledged northern front in the Iraq war. The Turks are suspicious of Kurdish nationalism in Iraq, fearing that will stimulate separatism among the sizable Kurdish minority in Turkey.

Mr. Abdul-Mahdi challenged American suggestions that Kurdish forces were more trustworthy than other militia forces.

"All Shiites are accused of being Iranians," he said. "I defy any person to find any Iranians" in the Badr Brigade, he added. He said that Kurdish militiamen had a long history of cooperating with Iran, and asserted that the Badr Brigade suffered as much or more from Mr. Hussein's repression as the Kurds.

"Most of the mass graves they are finding are full of Badr Brigades and their families," he said.

The new directive will be signed by Mr. Bremer and General McKiernan, according to the draft, which is dated May 18 and has been the basis for this week's private negotiations with Iraqi opposition figures.

Under the draft policy, which is expected to be issued before June 1, "small arms may be possessed in homes." Such arms include rifles, shotguns, and pistols, but no automatic weapons. In order to carry such weapons outside homes, individuals or groups must have a "weapons authorization card."

The directive also says that public arms markets will be prohibited.

[JackC]

Originally posted by SkinsHokie Fan

Let rebuilding Iraq be costly. The world will be better off when the new Iraq emerges.

As far as Iran is concerned I hope that we pour millions into the uprising that is ready to occur. My generation (20 somethings and younger) are sick and tired of the hypocritcal Shiite clerics that run Iran. There is a revolution festering amongst young people and amongst those that crave freedom in Iran. I hope to God that the United States gives this revolution all the resources it needs to topple this evil government in Tehran

Yeah if the 20 somethings are sick and tired of those stupid ****es than let's by all means overthrow the Iranian government too!