Cooley Game-Worn Drops By More Than Half

[Mark The Homer]

The link I provided you above from the Reebok website clearly states that:

Reebok is the exclusive on-field apparel provider for the National Football League. All 1,800 players in the NFL are outfitted in NFL Equipment apparel, designed and engineered by Reebok.

http://corporate.reebok.com/en/news/...2006/vince.asp

Also google Reeboks deal with the NFL, a 250 Million dollar deal over 10 years. Thats where I got the 25 mill per year.

I wouldn't think the NFL would want Reebok false advertising on their website.

Come on.

Is it not as plain as day that the deal the league has with Ripon is confidential, and that most NFL fans, say 99% or more, have never heard of Ripon, and assume that Reebok manufactures the game jerseys? And the league would like to keep it that way?

That's the reason for the language on the Reebok site.

Surely, you have to know that.

[chipwhich]

Come on.

Is it not as plain as day that the deal the league has with Ripon is confidential, and that most NFL fans, say 99% or more, have never heard of Ripon, and assume that Reebok manufactures the game jerseys? And the league would like to keep it that way?

That's the reason for the language on the Reebok site.

Surely, you have to know that.

Why would the deal with Ripon be confidential?

When I dealt with JH Designs and Jeff Hamilton jackets with Nascar, they were licensed apparel. Neither company actually manufactured the jackets as far as I know. At some point JH Design changed their manufacturer of some jackets from a US Based company to one out of Mexico. The price in jackets dropped about $40 per.

I would bet Ripon is in the same boat. It's cheaper to pay some other country to manufacture the jerseys to their specs.

In the NFL's case, they don't have to worry who manufactures the jerseys. They get 250 mill over ten years to allow Reebok to worry about that problem. If the jerseys are manufactured in sweat shops....who cares? The NFL gets them from Reebok...plus the pretty stipend. :laugh:

[Mark The Homer]

Why would the deal with Ripon be confidential?

I don't understand why you would ask this. It's so obvious.

The reason the deal is confidential is because the whole point is to market Reebok products. Shall I go on?

When I dealt with JH Designs and Jeff Hamilton jackets with Nascar, they were licensed apparel. Neither company actually manufactured the jackets as far as I know. At some point JH Design changed their manufacturer of some jackets from a US Based company to one out of Mexico. The price in jackets dropped about $40 per.

I would bet Ripon is in the same boat. It's cheaper to pay some other country to manufacture the jerseys to their specs.

In the NFL's case, they don't have to worry who manufactures the jerseys. They get 250 mill over ten years to allow Reebok to worry about that problem. If the jerseys are manufactured in sweat shops....who cares? The NFL gets them from Reebok...plus the pretty stipend. :laugh:

?

You're comparing companies I've never heard of to Reebok, an international corporation who are marketing products world-wide.

In the NFL's case, they do have to worry about who manufactures the jerseys, because they want a quality product. The league cares. The teams care.

The retail jerseys are a completely different story.

I don't know - seems to me you're arguing just to argue.

[chipwhich]

The reason the deal is confidential is because the whole point is to market Reebok products. Shall I go on?

You're comparing companies I've never heard of to Reebok, an international corporation who are marketing products world-wide.

In the NFL's case, they do have to worry about who manufactures the jerseys, because they want a quality product. The league cares. The teams care.

The retail jerseys are a completely different story.

I don't know - seems to me you're arguing just to argue.

I didn't know I was arguing.

Maybe we are on the same page.

Reebok is the official provider of players jerseys on the field according to press releases and their website and the NFL.

Based on your experience the jerseys are made by Ripon.

Reebok resells Ripon jerseys and pays 25 million per year for the rights.

Neither of us know how Ripon provides the jerseys, either they manufacture them or someone does for them.

Not sure what the argument is, maybe you are misreading my posts.

[Yeen80]

:munchout:

Mark, why don't you just try contacting Ripon and ask them directly?

[xavmit]

It seems to me there are several sources that can be tapped:

1. The people at JO Sportsco might know something

2. The guy that signs the Redskins Certs. MTH you have his contact info.

3. Ripon itself...they have a factory store so they may also have factory tours as well. Maybe a good summertime vacation.

[Mark The Homer]

Chip - it just seems like you're asking questions with answers so obvious, you're just asking the questions for the sake of arguing.

How can there possibly be any doubt that Ripon makes the jerseys when the jersey says "Made in Berlin, WI" on the label, and pants in the past have included a tag that read "made by Ripon Athletic" inside with the Starter logo on the outside? We know the jerseys and pants are made at Ripon. That's a fact and it has been a fact for many years, soon to be many decades.

Of course the Reebok website says "Reebok is the official provider of players jersey..." or words to that effect. It has to. It's all marketing. Before that, the Adidas site said the same thing. Before that, the Starter site said the same thing. It doesn't mean anything.

Papa Johns is the official pizza. Bank of America is the official bank. So what? It doesn't mean anything.

[chipwhich]

Chip - it just seems like you're asking questions with answers so obvious, you're just asking the questions for the sake of arguing.

How can there possibly be any doubt that Ripon makes the jerseys when the jersey says "Made in Berlin, WI" on the label, and pants in the past have included a tag that read "made by Ripon Athletic" inside with the Starter logo on the outside? We know the jerseys and pants are made at Ripon. That's a fact and it has been a fact for many years, soon to be many decades.

Of course the Reebok website says "Reebok is the official provider of players jersey..." or words to that effect. It has to. It's all marketing. Before that, the Adidas site said the same thing. Before that, the Starter site said the same thing. It doesn't mean anything.

Papa Johns is the official pizza. Bank of America is the official bank. So what? It doesn't mean anything.

As I said in all of my posts which you seem not to have read.

Reebok supplies the jerseys, Ripon manufactures them. I was simply answering your questions, you kept saying prove it. The only one argumentative was you.

It is obvious that Reebok has the licensing agreement with the NFL and Ripon manufactures the jerseys. My only point from post one is that the NFL most likely gets these jerseys *FOR FREE or for next to nothing* as part of the Reebok marketing deal. That was the original question.

[Mark The Homer]

My only point from post one is that the NFL most likely gets these jerseys *FOR FREE or for next to nothing* as part of the Reebok marketing deal.

It's the "most likely" part of the above sentence I don't understand. And I've already explained why I don't understand it in various posts above. In my mind, it's "most likely" the marketing deal has nothing to do with game jerseys except that game jerseys include Reebok logos. And there is a knowledgable member at www.nextleveltalk.com that agrees with me.

It seems this discussion has reached a stalemate.

[xavmit]

Wouldn't Reebok and/or Ripon be upset that teams such as the Redskins are making huge money off of these items they get for free? Would it be akin to a friend of yours giving you tickets in section 101, row 20 to the Cowboys game and you take them and sell them on ebay for $800?

It may be that the teams get a certain number of uniform sets for free but if they want 16 Portis sets, for example, they would have to pay for all sets over the certain number of free sets.

[corrupt3d]

Mark, I think you're reading too much into this. Ripon makes jerseys - that's what they specialize in. We've established this. High school teams can purchase through them (mine did) or other people can as well.

Reebok makes shoes, coats, socks, everything you can list that deals with sports. Maybe some higher up at Reebok deemed it cheaper to buy bulk jerseys from Ripon - who already had the established factories, etc to build bulk jerseys - then to go build their own.

And frankly, you've been taking an "if not this than that" attitude, you came up with a hypothesis (that Ripon has a secretive deal with the NFL) and are adamant its right unless someone proves you wrong, whereas no one else can come up with their own hypothesis and be right unless they give you proof.

Frankly, if Reebok has an exclusive deal with the NFL and word got out that Ripon was giving the NFL jerseys, someone would be angry.

[Mark The Homer]

You may be right, Chip, but it just seems silly to me. And stupid. There's no reason for it to be so complicated and inefficient.

The truth is, we're all speculating, because none of us have any knowledge at all in this area. I agree with Xav and Yeen re customization. Still, I'd love to get some actual facts from somebody some day regarding price.

...And frankly, you've been taking an "if not this than that" attitude, you came up with a hypothesis (that Ripon has a secretive deal with the NFL) and are adamant its right unless someone proves you wrong, whereas no one else can come up with their own hypothesis and be right unless they give you proof. ...

I've already acknowledged in the discussion that I may be mistaken. So I don't understand where this comes from.

Redskins jerseys were made by Ripon in 1998 with the Starter logo, and Redskins jerseys were made by Ripon in 1999 through 2001 with the Adidas logo, and Redskins jerseys were made by Ripon in 2002-2008 with the Reebok logo. Ripon Athetic is the one jersey manufacturer that has been consistent over the years. Even has corporate sponsors have come and gone, the manufacturer has remained the same. And before sponsorship even existed, who made the jerseys? The same company in the same town using the same employees in the same factories using the same equipment that was acquired by Ripon: MacGregor Sand-Knit.

So it just doesn't make sense to me to believe that the league has no direct business relationship with Ripon Athletic.

[redskinsgamers]

Let's see the pics of the jersey itself. Should be a easy photomatch or video match.

[brianm23]

I don't know how true this is, but when I went to the CSA show out at Dulles expo, there was a game worn Justin Tuck jersey there and the guy owned the jersey told me that the giants pay like 900 for these game cut jerseys which are of course different from the game authentic jerseys that the fans get in the stores. I don't for one minute believe that those jerseys cost 900 bucks. The reason that I don't is that the secondary market for some of these jerseys is far too low. I can't imagine that players or teams would be willing to part for these jerseys below what they paid for them and then secondary seller like a JOsports would turn around and sell them below the price that is paid. This is just an observation. I am sure that Mark the Homer would possibly know what teams pay for a game cut jersey for their respective teams.

They get them free. Reebok signs the Redskins (or the NFL) to a contract and pays THEM to wear their uniforms, not the other way around. Like most colleges that sign contracts with shoe companies and such, their merchandise is free to the staff and players. It's the price they pay for having their logo on the uniforms and shoes they wear.

Think about it.

[Mark The Homer]

They get them free. Reebok signs the Redskins (or the NFL) to a contract and pays THEM to wear their uniforms, not the other way around. Like most colleges that sign contracts with shoe companies and such, their merchandise is free to the staff and players. It's the price they pay for having their logo on the uniforms and shoes they wear.

Think about it.

I'm thinking you haven't bothered to read the thread.

[chipwhich]

I'm thinking you haven't bothered to read the thread.

I'm thinking the best statement in the thread is:

DRUMROLL

Stalemate

[xavmit]

They get them free. Reebok signs the Redskins (or the NFL) to a contract and pays THEM to wear their uniforms, not the other way around. Like most colleges that sign contracts with shoe companies and such, their merchandise is free to the staff and players. It's the price they pay for having their logo on the uniforms and shoes they wear.

Think about it.

Wouldn't Reebok and/or Ripon be upset that teams such as the Redskins are making huge money off of these items they get for free? Would it be akin to a friend of yours giving you tickets in section 101, row 20 to the Cowboys game and you take them and sell them on ebay for $800?

It may be that the teams get a certain number of uniform sets for free but if they want 16 Portis sets, for example, they would have to pay for all sets over the certain number of free sets.

[chipwhich]

Wouldn't Reebok and/or Ripon be upset that teams such as the Redskins are making huge money off of these items they get for free?

[DOG CHASES TAIL]

Why would Reebok care about the relatively little money teams collect off of jerseys when Reebok paid *250 MILLION DOLLARS* for the right to play in the jersey game with the NFL. They don't care what the team does with their used jerseys. The *250 MILLION DOLLARS* Reebok paid gets them much more lucrative benefits than game worn jersey sales.

[/DOG CHASES TAIL]

[Mark The Homer]

lol

This thread is full of fail.

Every second or third post is a statement full of holes begging to be filled.

..and bottomless holes at that (ref: dog chasing tail).

I will eventually find the answer to this. It might take me some time, maybe years, but some day, I will find out the facts.

[brianm23]

So it just doesn't make sense to me to believe that the league has no direct business relationship with Ripon Athletic.

Do you deal with the foreign countries when you buy your clothes? Chances are the brands you wear are being made by other companies overseas. No, you go through the reseller and promoter. (in this case...Reebok) Hell, some of the same companies overseas make clothes for different brand labels. Go figure.

I'm thinking you haven't bothered to read the thread.

I'm thinking you hate being wrong.

Wouldn't Reebok and/or Ripon be upset that teams such as the Redskins are making huge money off of these items they get for free? Would it be akin to a friend of yours giving you tickets in section 101, row 20 to the Cowboys game and you take them and sell them on ebay for $800?

It may be that the teams get a certain number of uniform sets for free but if they want 16 Portis sets, for example, they would have to pay for all sets over the certain number of free sets.

My guess it costs a grand total of $10 or less to make those jerseys. Nike charges $150 for a shoe that costs less than $7 to make. Ripon doesn't care because it's deal is with Reebok, and Reebok's deal is with the NFL. They go to Reebok when they need ****, and I'm quite sure they give it to them.(within reason) Reebok is making a killing buying jerseys from Ripon for cheap (ex: $30) and selling them to the fans for $199. They do the same thing with the shoes. Every clothing company does it.

Michael Jordan wore a new pair of Air Jordans every night. You think Nike or the company that made them charged him for every pair that he gave away or auctioned off?

lol

This thread is full of fail.

Every second or third post is a statement full of holes begging to be filled.

..and bottomless holes at that (ref: dog chasing tail).

I will eventually find the answer to this. It might take me some time, maybe years, but some day, I will find out the facts.

Why is it full of fail? Because you are on the brink of proven wrong? Dude, I work for a division 1 college and have friends in the athletic department so I know how the stuff works. Hell, I get FREE stuff from them so I know they aren't charged for it. Our sponsor happens to be Nike so I get Nike T-shirts and the players have to wear Nike shoes and football jerseys. Two guesses where those uniforms are made at as well? NOT BY NIKE!!

It's really simple Mark and I don't see why you can't understand how simple it is. Name me ONE company (aididas, nike, reebok) that make their own shoes. They are contracted out to people overseas and slapped with their label on it. It's good ole American business at work. Make with cheap labor, and sell high!

Ripon has the contrat with Reebok, and Reebok has the contract with the NFL. Reebok has to eat the costs of the uniforms, but it's very minimum in the grand scheme of things. If this works any different than the college level, then I'll be shock to say the least.

[Mark The Homer]

brianm23 - I think at this point we all have a fairly good idea of how sponsorship works in college. Thanks.

You've conveniently ignored my posts above regarding MacGregor Sandknit, Starter, Adidas, Reebok, and Ripon - and their relationship with the league over the past 20 years.

....My guess ...

This is the most accurate part of your post. You know nothing. You guess. That's the sum of your knowledge in this area. And everybody else's, because nobody has any hard factual info, including me.

[brianm23]

brianm23 - I think at this point we all have a fairly good idea of how sponsorship works in college. Thanks.

You've conveniently ignored my posts above regarding MacGregor Sandknit, Starter, Adidas, Reebok, and Ripon - and their relationship with the league over the past 20 years.

If you have a good idea about how sponsorship works in college, then you know firsthand how it works in the pros. Nothing different except the money and level of play.

Recap:

Sponsor outbids other companies for exclusive rights to said sports market.

Sponsor furnishes teams with free gear and equipment that brand their logo.

Sponsor is allowed to promote their brand and attach it to said market.

Sponsor sells products through said market.

Sponsor profits.

edit: big statement saying "i know nothing". You have no idea who or what I know so to make such a half ass statement is absurd. Even if I did give you proof, you wouldn't be man enough to eat crow.

[Mark The Homer]

If you have a good idea about how sponsorship works in college, then you know firsthand how it works in the pros. Nothing different except the money and level of play.

[/qUOTE]It's easy to type stuff out. Anybody can do that. What's more difficult is to type stuff out, and then provide a source or a link or some kind of reference which proves that what you are typing out is a fact and not an assumption.

Edit:

edit: big statement saying "i know nothing". You have no idea who or what I know so to make such a half ass statement is absurd. Even if I did give you proof, you wouldn't be man enough to eat crow

Funny - there's a thread on this kind of thing right now in the tailgate (started by Jumbo) regarding discussions in ES, and how members will sometimes resort to personal attacks rather than focus on the subject at hand - and that that person is generally regarded as weak and the loser of the discussion.

I win.

[brianm23]

Funny - there's a thread on this kind of thing right now in the tailgate (started by Jumbo) regarding discussions in ES, and how members will sometimes resort to personal attacks rather than focus on the subject at hand - and that that person is generally regarded as weak and the loser of the discussion.

I win.

I haven't personally attacked you at all. If anything, you have been pretty abrasive and condescending.

ps. congrats on winning on the internet.

[Ned Flanders]

Let's see the pics of the jersey itself. Should be a easy photomatch or video match.

I think it might be, but it seems like the Jersey may have been washed. Just my initial thought. I'll take some good close ups of it tonight, and post them. It's definitely, without a doubt, the real deal. An awesome jersey

Topic=back on track!