On the Republican debate last night

[JMS]

I'm going to ignore the rest because I have addressed the issues multiple times, and much of it is beyond your original claim that McCain caved on his torture stand.

Oh boy, With Regard to Habeas Corpus, you denied the Washington Post. You denied the New York Times articles. You denied Amnesty International. You denied the American Civil Liberties Article. You even denied the Harvard legal review.

Now you are denying what the McCain bill itself says..... No matter, I know you heard me. Give you a few weeks to think about it, you'll be on my side of this discussion.

I'm sorry, but I missed where he said "civilian court". What is a civilian court? Is the Supreme Court a civilian court?

:doh:

The fact of the matter is that despite claims by the Bush administration that the McCain ammendement prevented them from hearing the Hamdan case, the Supreme Court said that the McCain ammendment did not affect their ability to hear the case. The same precedent will stand w/ respect to torture. If his clients are being tortured, AT LEAST, he can bring the case to the Supreme Court. Is the Supreme Court not a court than that will enforce the torture rules presented in the McCain ammendment?

No he can't pete, as we have both agree'd several times now the Hamden vs Rumsfeld case wasn't on the merrits of Hamdens incarsoration, nor on the merrits of his treatement. The case dealt exclusively with the fact that Hamden had been given a military tribunal "hearing" and that did not satisfy the US Law and internatinal agreement which the Supreme court said super ceeded what had been written in McCain. The supreme court did not throw out McCain bill. It didn't even rule on it.

The McCain bill has not yet been successfully challenged in court with that challenge being upheald on apeal to the supreme court.

Hamden didn't bring a case saying he had been tourtured. He couldn't do that. Hamden case said he hadn't gotten a fair hearing. Something which was outside of the scope of what the McCain bill asserted.

His statement is false.

NOW, I'm done here.

Yes you are done. I stuck a fork in your argument several pages back and since then it's just been running around like a headless chicken. I'm glad it's done. It was painful to watch.

[SkinzFan007]

ron paul owns. ill vote for guili or huck though since itll probably be one of them but id LOVE paul.

[GibbsFactor]

ron paul owns. ill vote for guili or huck though since itll probably be one of them but id LOVE paul.

Don't do that. If you have a candidate (who WILL be on the ballot) why not vote with your heart? Ron Paul has just as good of a chance as anyone. If you would LOVE Paul, vote for him. He's already got like 70% of the GOP delegates from Maryland as it is.

[JMS]

I'm sorry, but I missed where he said "civilian court". What is a civilian court? Is the Supreme Court a civilian court?

The McCain bill stated specifically that no court civilian or other could hear the cases in guantanamo.. Remember Bush was using Tribunals which he invented and were not courts.

no court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear or consider--

'(1) an application for a writ of habeas corpus filed by or on behalf of an alien detained by the Department of Defense at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba; or

http://www.pegc.us/detainee_act_2005.html

And yes the supreme court is not just a civilian court. It's the highest court in the land over civilian courts, over military courts, and at times over congress and the executive. The supreme court did not rule or interpret the McCain law. It didn't for example throw the cases back to civilian courts. It ruled narrowly saying only that the McCain bill wasn't specific enough on who would hear the cases if the courts could not. It said and AGAIN i repeat. Military courts are ok but they have to confirm to military regulations for courts. Also tribunals are OK, but congress has to re-affirm the use of those tribunals; which congress did in 2006.

John McCain's law certainly denied the detainee's the right of Habeas Corpus, and denied them the right to independent oversite by the courts. It did legalize torture by leaving it up to the President alone to interpret what that word means. And remember this President has always contended that water boarding, restricted movement, and exposure to extreme temporatures are not torture; even though more than 100 people have died in US custody while these techniques are being employed.

And counter what was conventional wisdom at the time. John McCain's bill not only legalized Bush's torture, The torture actually would have been stopped had John McCain's bill not passed due to a previous supreme court ruling in 2004; Raul vs Bush which ruled the President alone didn't have the authority to eliminate judicial oversite of these prisoners. Thank You John McCain Torture advocate, for giving congressional authority for the torture camps..!

[Koolblue13]

Don't do that. If you have a candidate (who WILL be on the ballot) why not vote with your heart? Ron Paul has just as good of a chance as anyone. If you would LOVE Paul, vote for him. He's already got like 70% of the GOP delegates from Maryland as it is.

I finally got my dad t start checking him out. He has never voted outside of Dem, but is finally listening.

[Koolblue13]

Talk about an isolationist policy.

Care to explain how so?

[GibbsFactor]

Care to explain how so?

Putting restrictions and sanctions on another country does not promote anything but making that country turn and trade with others, certainly not with us. In turn, this type of policy promotes the US as an isolationist republic. Our way or the high way.

[Koolblue13]

Putting restrictions and sanctions on another country does not promote anything but making that country turn and trade with others, certainly not with us. In turn, this type of policy promotes the US as an isolationist republic. Our way or the high way.

This is only one country out of many, why allow anybdy to deal with one that might be wanting to throw nukes at us? I don't think that is "isolationist", I think it's smart.