Art Posted January 19, 2003 Author Share Posted January 19, 2003 Guru, To be honest, I'd flood the draft with linemen. I'd take six of them if I was in charge. You guarantee you lose a couple of guys. But, this is the draft philosophy Jimmy Johnson utilized to find real players. He'd bring in so much competition you were able to find the real football players from those who just look good on paper. I realize we're not going to employ this stategy. I'm just saying I would . Die Hard, I'd take Hilliard and let the offense play itself out at receiver. With Ramsey in over the final four weeks we were a Top 5 offense with the offensive line and receivers we did have. If you can improve the offensive line a bit and add a guy like Hilliard to improve the receivers a bit, if Ramsey is actually able to complete 56 percent of his passes instead of 52 percent or so, we'll be a competent to very good offense at the very least. So much though revolves around Ramsey. How he grows as a player and all. He could regress and we could suck no matter who we have. But, I'd love to see us spend big free agent dollars on Randy Thomas and little dollars on Hilliard and go play. The most important thing we can add to this team in this offseason is a year together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRMADD Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Art: I just don't understand how the Mad brothers don't see the clear lack of resources we've spent filling the defensive line on this team. Two things: (1) don't lump me in with little Mikey. If you have trouble telling us apart, here's the key: if the post is coherent and rational, it's mine. If the post is a thinly veiled diatribe against me and the forces that have confined him to a world of minimum wage labor, it's Mikey's. Just kidding, Mikey -- you know I kid ya 'cause I love ya. (2) You seem to equate "lack of resources" with draft picks. The facts don't bear you out. I read you the history already, but the facts are simple: we used free agency and the draft to pick up very highly regarded talent along the DL. We drafted Lang in the first, and we traded a first-rounder for Big Daddy and for, sorry to bring this up, Sean Gilbert. So we did use the draft. We also added Stubby, Coleman, Wynn, and Smith, among others, through free agency. For three years running (I think) all of our starters were former first round picks. We had plenty of "resources". Here's where your argument falls down on it's face: say we apply it to another position. At LB, we have exactly one starter that we drafted. But who cares? If we fill the positions adequately through free agency or even undrafted rookies, does it matter that we're not drafting them? Of course, we need to find some players to develop behind our starters, because they're cheaper than signing vets. We haven't done that well. I still think we should find a DE or DE in the first round, assuming a good one is still on the board, but we certainly haven't ignored the DL, either in the draft (and I include trading a first-rounder, twice, for a DT) or in free agency. In '96 (trade for Sean Gilbert), '97 (draft Kenard Lang) and '98 (trade for Dan Wilkinson), we used our top pick on the DL. In '98 we also signed the NFL POY (Stubby). In '99, we signed Marco Coleman. In '00, we signed Bruce Smith. In '02, we signed Wynn and Gardener. So in 3 of the last 7 years we used our first round pick on the DL. We also spent enormous dollars on free agents. I just don't understand how you can equate that with "neglecting the DL for years." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 19, 2003 Author Share Posted January 19, 2003 Madd, Sorry there brother, but a week or two ago you were railing against the luck we had in having Gardener fall into our laps. Now you are making it out to be some highly crafted, well-planned use of resources. The linebacker position is a fair analogy, but you miss the point. There is a difference between signing a 25-year-old two-time Pro Bowl player to fill a spot than to sign a 37-year-old guy who's on the tail end of his career. Stubby is a good example of filling the defensive line with a comparable talent to what Trotter is. You can build through free agency when you bother signing players who are considered among the best at their position and are young enough to maintain that play over a period of years. Stubby failed to live up to his contract. Trotter probably will work out. And, of course, we DID spend an early first rounder to fill our linebacker spot with Arrington. Until we have at least one of our own players starting for us on the defensive line, you can't equate it with any other position. The defensive line is the only spot where we have no players we've found who are starting. We're one of two teams in the same boat in the whole of football. Until we actually identify and find players in the draft who can start, it doesn't matter how often we sign former first-rounders of other teams. You develop talent from within. You fill from outside, unless a 25-year-old two-time Pro Bowler falls into your lap and then you just smile and say, "Wow." We're not talking about the same thing with Wilky, Wynn, Smith when we got him and Gardener, since all were attained with various levels of stain against them. Trotter, like Stubby, really had no taint. I thought the Stubby move at the time was excellent and it, by itself was perfectly acceptable instead of having to draft a defensive lineman. Now there are no guys in free agency who fill that same role and you have ignored defensive line for about 12 years, spending just three first day picks on the area. You need to build from the draft now while you still have the free agents you signed around to bring the new group along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins57 Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 In 1998 The Bungals drafted with our 17th pick and took Brian Simmons. The thing is we also gave up a 3rd rounder for Big Daddy and here is some of the players we could have had in that 3rd round Jamie Duncan Brian Griese Hines Ward... Man that would have been a sweet pick in hte 3rd round In 1997 we took Lang at 17 and we could have had Trevor Pryce at 28. 1996 we trade away our number 6 and i don't rememebr if any other picks Here is some of the guys we passed on for Gilbert 19-Marvin Harrison 20 Daryl Gardener 24 Eric Moulds 26 Ray Lewis but we traded up for Andre Johnson T from Penn State. Man we screwed everything up that year I know hindsight is 20/20 but I thought it was interesting to see our mistakes again :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Horse Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 Player - Season to Break 1000 yards - Round drafted Marvin Harrsion - Fourth season. Round 1. Hines Ward - Fourth season. Round 3. Burress - Second season. Round 1. Moulds - Third season. Round 1. Coles - Third season. Round 3. Moss - First season. Round 1. Toomer - Fourth season. Round 2. Horn - Fifth season. FA, CFL. Holt - Second season. Round 1. Owens - Third season. Round 3. Price - Fourth season. Round 2. ' Jimmy Smith - Fourth season. Round 2. Chad Johnson - Second season. Round 1. Rod Smith - Third season. Undrafted free agent. Torry Holt - Second Season. Round 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins57 Posted January 19, 2003 Share Posted January 19, 2003 wow. now add Gardner second season. first round. ANd some people wanted to trade him:doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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