Let Al Do It, Joe

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I watched '05 carefully.

For four games in the first half of the year...Seattle, Denver, Kansas City, San Francisco...the passing game averaged over 300 yards per game mostly due to a single-covered Santana Moss running wild. After that, the Tampa Bay game was the only one where the entire offense performed well.

The passing game dropped off to a 150 yard per-game average. Gibbs was forced to run over the last five games because we couldn't pass effectively. Luckily, we had opponents scheduled like the Rams, Cards and the Giants who had all three starting LBs on IR.

I don't know what team you were watching, but that's what I saw. If the defense hadn't stepped up its game with sacks and turnovers providing shot fields, we would not have sniffed the playoffs.

extremely well put. remember the last 3 of the last 5 teams we beat were bottom feeders. and we barely beat arizona, we can thank antonio brown for that one (remember that guy? i think that was his name)

[JoeGibbsThickandthin]

I watched '05 carefully.

For four games in the first half of the year...Seattle, Denver, Kansas City, San Francisco...the passing game averaged over 300 yards per game mostly due to a single-covered Santana Moss running wild. After that, the Tampa Bay game was the only one where the entire offense performed well.

The passing game dropped off to a 150 yard per-game average. Gibbs was forced to run over the last five games because we couldn't pass effectively. Luckily, we had opponents scheduled like the Rams, Cards and the Giants who had all three starting LBs on IR.

I don't know what team you were watching, but that's what I saw. If the defense hadn't stepped up its game with sacks and turnovers providing shot fields, we would not have sniffed the playoffs.

LOL. You see it the way you want to see it.

They were forced to run because Patten and Thrash got hurt. They were stuck to using Jacobs as second WR.

But you can see it the way you want to see it.

All i know is Saunders offense was pathetic. NOT 1 TOUCDOWN on the road vs the NFC east.

Portis does not like Saunders. Does not talk to him. The offensive line finally started to play when Gibbs went back to the power running. Not the side to side pitch nonsense.

You forget the at Tampa game in the regular season. The home game vs Philly when Brunell hit 7 different WRS.

The home games vs NY and Dallas.

The only time the passing game really dropped is when Brunell hurt his knee in the Giants game at home.

Then next week all of sudden he could not throw.

[JoeGibbsThickandthin]

Course, all of those road games were with Brunell starting, and he was hurt in the Philly game.

Jason

Saunders offense does not work with the Redskins talent. Portis does not like Saunders. The offensive line did not start playing until Gibbs woke up and took control of the offfense before the Tampa game.

If they bring in new offensive linemen and trade Portis then we can talk about letting AL do it.

And i still do not see what Saunders has done in this league .The Cheifs had great offenses for 5 years. But he could never call plays to keep his defense on the sidelines. And they never went anywhere once.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

give saunders offense another season, with brunell in there it was worthless. hopefully everyone gets on the same page and this thing gets rolling.

oh and brunell didnt top 194 yards passing after the tampa game for the rest of the season in 05.

[JoeGibbsThickandthin]

give saunders offense another season, with brunell in there it was worthless. hopefully everyone gets on the same page and this thing gets rolling.

oh and brunell didnt top 194 yards passing after the tampa game for the rest of the season in 05.

If Saunders has anything more than limited control the offense will be terrible.

Portis does not even like the man. He knows if it AINT BROKE. What they tell you about fixing it.

The Redskins are a power running team. They will never be the Rams of 2000 or the Cheifs.

Gibbs should of learned this his first time coaching in 81.

And check out the WRs Brunell was throwing to. And think when Patten got hurt.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

If Saunders has anything more than limited control the offense will be terrible.

Portis does not even like the man. He knows if it AINT BROKE. What they tell you about fixing it.

The Redskins are a power running team. They will never be the Rams of 2000 or the Cheifs.

Gibbs should of learned this his first time coaching in 81.

but i think they can work together and come up with some sort of hybrid. cmon, you cant tell me larry johnson was a finesse runner the past two season with saunders scheme (yes i know he left the cheifs but it was a similar offense). larry johnson ran up the middle all the time, and that line was brutally awesome. hopefully they get on the same page and figure something out. they have the weapons, just not the right scheme at the moment. we definitely have the talent on offense to make something work now that brunell is gone.

[radagast5]

brunell is bad. hes old and slow. and thats ok, youre not supposed to be lighting up the league at age 36.

Brunell's problem is not his mobility. Right now, Ben Roethlisberger, Byron Leftwich, Brad Johnson, Tom Brady, Mark Bulger, Peyton and Eli Manning, Trent Green, and Chad Pennington all have mobility equal to or worse than Brunell's. And that's just today's QBs; plenty of QBs in days of yore succeeded with less mobility, Rypien, Jurgensen, and Kilmer from our own Redskins come to mind.

Brunell's problem was a diminished long-ball and a strict mandate to avoid INTs like the plague. Hence, he almost never looked to throw the medium or long stuff. That made opposing defenses' jobs a lot easier and the Skins' offense a lot more difficult.

[JoeGibbsThickandthin]

but i think they can work together and come up with some sort of hybrid. cmon, you cant tell me larry johnson was a finesse runner the past two season with saunders scheme (yes i know he left the cheifs but it was a similar offense). larry johnson ran up the middle all the time, and that line was brutally awesome. hopefully they get on the same page and figure something out. they have the weapons, just not the right scheme at the moment. we definitely have the talent on offense to make something work now that brunell is gone.

They ran Johnson on different plays.

If Gibbs can get Brunell 3000 yards and Saunders can not even devise a plan to make him look normal. I think Gibbs knows how to use his players better.

I would like to see Gibbs calling the plays with Campbell. And cut Brunell.

Plus Gibbs had no WRS.

Saunders does not fit the scheme around his talent.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

dont be so quick to judge JGTAT. give it another year and if it still sucks, im with you.

and brunell sucked down the stretch last year, even you have to admit that. and yes i know he got hurt, but that carried into this year, and saunders had to game plan around how bad brunell was. brunell did nothing under joe gibbs past the tampa game last year so you cant say gibbs got brunell all these stats because they were pretty much two separate players. lets see 5 or 6 games into the season next year what campbell/gibbs/saunders/portis/moss can cook up for us, im excited about it.

[JoeGibbsThickandthin]

dont be so quick to judge JGTAT. give it another year and if it still sucks, im with you.

I just think Gibbs lost respect from his team when he gave up playcalling.

I think team maybe started to say, this is our hall of fame coach?

Brian Billick turned around the Ravens when he said THIS IS ALL ON ME. This is my baby. I will run it.

And the offense was still the same. But the whole team started to play after that.

Gibbs needs to regain the team back. Just my opinion.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I just think Gibbs lost respect from his team when he gave up playcalling.

I think team maybe started to say, this is our hall of fame coach?

Brian Billick turned around the Ravens when he said THIS IS ALL ON ME. This is my baby. I will run it.

And the offense was still the same. But the whole team started to play after that.

Gibbs needs to regain the team back. Just my opinion.

you cant compare them though. the ravens defense is that entire team and billick is the "offensive genius". the only reason that team scores points is cause the defense gives them the shortest field position known to man or the defense scores for them.

but i do agree with you, i bet some of the players probably said to themselves "whats wrong with this old man, why did he hire this guy when hes supposed to be the offensive guru?"

[JC girl]

If Gibbs can get Brunell 3000 yards and Saunders can not even devise a plan to make him look normal. I think Gibbs knows how to use his players better.

QUOTE]

Are you kidding me...Brunell couldn't or wouldn't throw the ball long. Do you seriously think Saunders call a short pass to Betts all the time?? Saunders can't do anything if Brunell refuses to look at his receivers past Moss and checks down every freaking play! :doh:

[JoeGibbsThickandthin]

you cant compare them though. the ravens defense is that entire team and billick is the "offensive genius". the only reason that team scores points is cause the defense gives them the shortest field position known to man or the defense scores for them.

but i do agree with you, i bet some of the players probably said to themselves "whats wrong with this old man, why did he hire this guy when hes supposed to be the offensive guru?"

YES. And it makes us fans and people question him. Has he lost a step?

When his offense was ranked a 11th with freaking Mark Brunell.

And we all know the change effected Portis. He hates Saunders. Does not talk to him.

I just wish Saunders would find another job this offseason. He can not be happy only running part of the offense and the playcalling while the star of the team does not like him.

Thats another thing. Why was Portis not in the passing game this year? He was deadly on those go routes in 05.

[JoeGibbsThickandthin]

If Gibbs can get Brunell 3000 yards and Saunders can not even devise a plan to make him look normal. I think Gibbs knows how to use his players better.

QUOTE]

Are you kidding me...Brunell couldn't or wouldn't throw the ball long. Do you seriously think Saunders call a short pass to Betts all the time?? Saunders can't do anything if Brunell refuses to look at his receivers past Moss and checks down every freaking play! :doh:

We all know this. But Gibbs created a scheme that made those short passes go long.:applause: :applause: :applause:

Saunders scheme seem to be nothing. I had no idea what he was doing. Almost like he was proving a point. But you do not prove a point and waste a whole season.

We could of gone 8-8 and been in the playoffs at least.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

YES. And it makes us fans and people question him. Has he lost a step?

When his offense was ranked a 11th with freaking Mark Brunell.

And we all know the change effected Portis. He hates Saunders. Does not talk to him.

I just wish Saunders would find another job this offseason. He can not be happy only running part of the offense and the playcalling while the star of the team does not like him.

Thats another thing. Why was Portis not in the passing game this year? He was deadly on those go routes in 05.

im sure theyre gonna fix all this stuff in the off season. and i know portis is not a fan of saunders, he bashes him all the time, and he should because portis is great out of the backfield as well. he could easily be a LT or a westbrook on the pass plays. i just wish we got a straight answer to some of these questions instead of the smoke and mirrors we get from ashburn.

[JoeGibbsThickandthin]

im sure theyre gonna fix all this stuff in the off season. and i know portis is not a fan of saunders, he bashes him all the time, and he should because portis is great out of the backfield as well. he could easily be a LT or a westbrook on the pass plays. i just wish we got a straight answer to some of these questions instead of the smoke and mirrors we get from ashburn.

The way they used Betts in the passing game was a joke. Portis is 100 times more explosive than Betts. Betts is a good running back between the tackles.

Not in the passing game. Betts did not break 1 for a TD all year on those screens.

[DOOG]

Park City Skins]Minor correction. Joe Gibbs 1 was good at looking at what other teams did and borrowing from them as well. I could be a scheme or a way to call a game, (such as Implementing the No huddle offense that the Bills were using almost excusively at the time). He took a little from the Run and shoot as well at times, then did what he did and may do best, and adapted it for the Redskins, ( see his 3 receiver set with a tightend going out as well). I read about some of this some time ago and will try to dig up where I did. Suffice to say, it does make sense to a certain degree. That's what teams do. See what works, and pick and choose a little and adapt it to your team.

jimster]I agree that I think Saunders was a good idea. - He just needs to find a way to fit with Joe's philosophies. For example, it seems like at the end of the year we were seeing Joe Gibbs running and Al Saunders passing.

If they could collaborate during the off-season this year and start off like that, I'd think we'd be pretty good on offense.

These two guys summed it up pretty well. We do not need anymore changes, let them work it out in the offseason and we will be fine.

This offense was built on the run first principal and they should keep it that way. Al Saunders offense has not impressed me.

Wow, have you watched KC the past 3 or 4 years?:doh:

:logo:

[JoeGibbsThickandthin]

These two guys summed it up pretty well. We do not need anymore changes, let them work it out in the offseason and we will be fine.

Wow, have you watched KC the past 3 or 4 years?:doh:

:logo:

Al Saunder runs a different scheme. They have fast offensive linemen. They can run pitches to the side.

The Redskins do not have that. So Saunders running offense was awful with the talent the Redskins had.

That is why Portis was so pissed off. As soon as he went on IR Gibbs took control of the team and went back to the power running.

[DOOG]

Al Saunder runs a different scheme. They have fast offensive linemen. They can run pitches to the side.

The Redskins do not have that. So Saunders running offense was awful with the talent the Redskins had.

That is why Portis was so pissed off. As soon as he went on IR Gibbs took control of the team and went back to the power running.

The point was that he wasnt "impressed" with Saunders, I think the guy is a capable NFL caliber coach and to go into a blanket statement like that and not look at the guys history would be a bit silly dont you think? And I also would think as a head coach it would be Gibbs' job to talk to his coaches and make adjustments. How about we not pass judgement on a guy over one bad year by a team that lacked its best player and made a switch at the most valuable postion on the field.

:logo:

[rwn]

If Saunders has anything more than limited control the offense will be terrible.

Portis does not even like the man. He knows if it AINT BROKE. What they tell you about fixing it.

The Redskins are a power running team. They will never be the Rams of 2000 or the Cheifs.

Gibbs should of learned this his first time coaching in 81.

And check out the WRs Brunell was throwing to. And think when Patten got hurt.

Let us REVIEW LOL

Portis does not even like the man. He knows if it AINT BROKE. What they tell you about fixing it. Portis had no say in the offense this year because he was hurt !!! So how do you know how Als offense would of done with a healthy portis enolved in the offense.

And check out the WRs Brunell was throwing to. And think when Patten got hurt. OK so now how do you know how the passing game would of been if they had benched brunell and play Campbell from the beginining !!!! Heck how many times did the reciever have to adjust to brunells poorly thrown deep ball!! Every team we play knew we had no consistnt deep passing game so they play a cover 2 and there was nothing we could do about it

[jimster]

Al Saunder runs a different scheme. They have fast offensive linemen. They can run pitches to the side.

The Redskins do not have that. So Saunders running offense was awful with the talent the Redskins had.

That is why Portis was so pissed off. As soon as he went on IR Gibbs took control of the team and went back to the power running.

actually pitches and sweeps have always been a staple of Gibbs' running game - Saunders offense included the same type of plays. - Go back and look at games in 2005. - We ran those toss sweeps all the time. While Betts ran them effectively in 2006, Portis scored several times on them because he has that "start and stop" speed and better acceleration when he turns the corner.

...I also noticed that it seemed like the offensive line improved greatly right around the time Ray Brown was added to the staff. May be coincidence, but will be interesting to watch.

[Oldfan]

If Gibbs can get Brunell 3000 yards and Saunders can not even devise a plan to make him look normal. I think Gibbs knows how to use his players better.

I checked it for you. If Brunell had attempted as many passes for Saunders as he did for Gibbs, he would have surpassed his 2005 yardage. 3123 - 3050 = +73

And let's remember that much of the 2005 yardage was with a healthy Santana who was single covered until after the San Francisco game. Six of Brunell's TD passes were thrown behind the LOS.

[Uno Boss]

only in Washington can a new guy come in and put up Better numbers than the old glorified guy and still be called a failure....

If i could stand another season of loosing with poor O i would pray that suanders leaves just so the fans can see that Gibbs Offense stinks in his second tim around...

I have said it before...

You cant compare Gibbs second year to Als first year...its not fair.

You have to compare their first years to each other and the defenses they had to lean on...

You give Saunders 2006 offense the D that we had in 2004 and we still have a game coming up this weekend.....

You give Gibbs 30th ranked offense in 2004 the D we had this year and we have the number #1 pick in the draft.

[jimster]

You give Saunders 2006 offense the D that we had in 2004 and we still have a game coming up this weekend.....

You give Gibbs 30th ranked offense in 2004 the D we had this year and we have the number #1 pick in the draft.

:notworthy

[Stuckinphilly1]

I have said it before...

You cant compare Gibbs second year to Als first year...its not fair.

You have to compare their first years to each other and the defenses they had to lean on...

You give Saunders 2006 offense the D that we had in 2004 and we still have a game coming up this weekend.....

You give Gibbs 30th ranked offense in 2004 the D we had this year and we have the number #1 pick in the draft.

Best post in the tread, thanks!!!

Here's what I think you'll hear against you're point...the offense didn't give the Defense enought rest, and/or the D was hurt this year.

Neither points matter, it was what it was #1 as far as injuries. #2, Gibbs had plenty of 3 and outs or quick scoring drives that kept the D on the field as well.....The Tampa Playoff game??? He relied on his Defense to win that game and the Seattle game, :doh: ROGERS PLEASE LEARN TO CATCH!!!