Is it really a religion of peace?

[Mass_SkinsFan]

And what you are failing to assess is that Islam has become the dominant force in the regions it is allowed THROUGH force, and wants to continue to do so. Any sane observer of the last 20 years can see that this is the case.

Iranian revolution, Hizbollah's growth in Lebanon, Al- Queda success around the world, Thailand Muslims in revolt, Chechnya, burning cars in France, attempted plots in England, attacks on the United States, Shia versus Sunni fratricide.

Regardless of a bunch of white guys sitting around and typing on their computers, in reality there are millions of Muslims who interpret their religion in world wide dominant themes- and are willing to fight to make that happen.

You're totally correct that Islam has risen to power largely behind the force of violent action. Nobody is going to deny that. I think where we differ is that you apparantly want to wipe the entire religion off the face of the planet whereas I'd like to simply eradicate those elements of Islam who present an immediate danger to the United States and leave the rest of the Islamic people to deal with their own problems.

[DCsportsfan53]

All three major religions are violent. They are designed to brainwash and control large masses. Whether to keep them under control, advance political agendas, collect money or use it as a motivation for war/terrorism. But most arguments about religion start from one brainwashed member of a sect claiming they are less brainwashed than another religion, when in the end all believers are idiots to varying degrees.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I think you guys are approaching this the wrong way. The question isn't whether Muslims are peaceful, it's whether or not Islam is peaceful.

As an example, there's no doubt that Christians are violent. A strong case can be made, however, that Christianity is peaceful, and that violent Christians are violating the tenets of their own faith. The same goes for Buddhism.

The question is, is Islam violent, or is it truly a religion of peace, as many claim? Are the extremists correct that the Koran and Hadiths support their behavior, and the moderates peaceful in spite of what their faith teaches?

Or, are the moderates correct, and the extremists are simply twisting passages to their liking, while ignoring an overall peaceful context? I'll admit that I'm sympathetic to this, having dealt with this kind of thing when addressing complaints about Christianity. On the surface, the one line quotes earlier in this thread are pretty awful, but I know all too well the dangers of out of context proof-texting.

I'm not familiar enough with all the subtleties and nuances of Islam to say for sure, myself, but I do think that humans are fallible, and to judge a religion by the worst of its adherents is the wrong approach. Who is truly able to live up to the tenets of any of them?

Very well said and I think it's an excellent point and to reiterate something MSF said earlier, I don't believe religions are inherently violent. Every religion has nearly infinte ways of being interpreted and people do so in a way that best suits their needs and desires. I believe that, in many aspects, a religion and the people that represent it are separate entities. It just so happens that, at this point in time, a sect of Muslims has chosen to interpret aspects of their book into a lifestyle of hatred and violence, just as members of other religions have done before. It's almost a moot point though, trying to establish if a religion itself is violent and in most cases, to me, boils to one trying to establish or feel spirtual superiority in their religion. In the end, we don't have to fight or contend with religions, it's people we deal with, people that act out these things and people who are violent. :2cents:

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Very well said and I think it's an excellent point and to reiterate something MSF said earlier, I don't believe religions are inherently violent. Every religion has nearly infinte ways of being interpreted and people do so in a way that best suits their needs and desires. I believe that, in many aspects, a religion and the people that represent it are separate entities. It just so happens that, at this point in time, a sect of Muslims has chosen to interpret aspects of their book into a lifestyle of hatred and violence, just as members of other religions have done before. It's almost a moot point though, trying to establish if a religion itself is violent and in most cases, to me, boils to one trying to establish or feel spirtual superiority in their religion. In the end, we don't have to fight or contend with religions, it's people we deal with, people that act out these things and people who are violent. :2cents:

:applause: :applause: Very well put, DC. Very well put indeed. :applause: :applause:

[skinfan133]

I hope that the theory that they are going through typically violent growing pains is true. If you look at the age of the religion - on a timeline it would be about the same point as Christianity going through the inquisition. I'm not saying it is true - I just hope it is and that the religion can pull through this phase (quickly) and truely become a religion of peace.

sorry rince, but proportionatly on the timeline id say thats islam is a little past the inquisition. islam has always been spread by the sword from today on down to mohamed himself. its taught in our schools as fact, therefore i will state it as fact. its not growing pains, its the nature of their religion, "if you're not with us, then you die" (if not always that extreme, but the same kind of priciple, people of other religions in islamic countries are regularly alienated, back in the day you had to pay a tax to worship anyone but allah in the dar al islam. extremists islamics want to bring this tax back too...)

[skinfan133]

#1. Its a civil war over there now. Lets accept it.

#2. How many Muslims are there in the world? What % of the total makes up the "radical" side?

muslims are just under 1 billion right now (as opposed to an estimated 2-2.3 billion christians), its the fastest growing religion too (due to high birthrate and conversion in the greater middle east (northern africa and parts of former soviet union included). ive heard estimates from between 0.5%-20% are radical extremists. no one really knows for sure how many crazies there are, mostly because there isnt really a definate criteria to be considered am extremist...

dont quote me on the billion muslims, could be higher than that, but not by more than 200,000...

[rincewind]

sorry rince, but proportionatly on the timeline id say thats islam is a little past the inquisition. islam has always been spread by the sword from today on down to mohamed himself. its taught in our schools as fact, therefore i will state it as fact. its not growing pains, its the nature of their religion, "if you're not with us, then you die" (if not always that extreme, but the same kind of priciple, people of other religions in islamic countries are regularly alienated, back in the day you had to pay a tax to worship anyone but allah in the dar al islam. extremists islamics want to bring this tax back too...)

On the timeline they would be within 100 years of the Inquistion - which on a timeline of 2,000 years isn't all that far off. Plus, the Inquistion isn't necessarily the end of Christian violence.