monk should go BUT

[ShoreSkins]

Art Monk was the leader of 3 SB champs. He was the rock. He was the ultimate class act. He has amazing numbers. He was #1 in career receptions and #1 in receptions in one year. He just didn't help the media sell its papers or magazines or commercials. He didn't speak with the press and they will show him now. Couple that with Snyder's expansion into the press which affects their livelyhoods and there's the rationale for not voting for Monk. Grimm is affected by the same situation, but he is now with the Steelers and the media loves the Steelers, so his path may get easier.

[BigDFan5]

aikaman also had that all-pro line protecting him,oh and dont 4get that 15 pick trade with minny that help win those 3 sb's.

There was no 15 pick trade, and do you even know who Dallas got with those picks? At least know what you are talking about before you say things.

[BigDFan5]

The are NO "buts" for discussing Monk's HOF qualifications. As has been discussed before, no other player retired with the trifecta of 1) most catches in a single season 2) most career receptions 3) most consecutive games catching a pass.

Today's receivers have it easier. Take a look at the highlights of Super Bowl XVIII and watch how Monk was mugged on almost EVERY play. By today's rules, Mike Haynes and Lester Hayes would have been called for over 20 holding or illegal contact penalties.

When you add a "but" when discussing Monk's HOF worthiness, you are only showing yours.

Monk did not retire with the most career catches, He also did not retire holding the record for most catches in a single season.

[mookie0720]

i guess T.O gets in b/c he's a "gamechanger"to you?

FWIW T.O is a HOF'er statistically.

[skinz1972]

There was no 15 pick trade, and do you even know who Dallas got with those picks? At least know what you are talking about before you say things.

.http://vikings.scout.com/2/11653.html bigD read this link,6 players and 8(my mistake) draft picks,now say aikman didnt benefit.

[BigDFan5]

bigD,dallas traded hershel walker to minnesota for 15 draft pick,u must werent old enough to remeber.

No I remember the trade clearly and it was not for 15 draft picks, again I ask do you even know who we got with the picks we did aquire?

[BigDFan5]

Just to help you out Skinz1972, We aquired 8 picks in the trade not 15, and by the time trading picks, and draft/cutting players was finished this is what the Cowboys had to show for the Walker trade. A great amount of talent for sure, but not the majority of our team.

After all was said and done Cowboys had:

RB Emmitt Smith

DT Russell Maryland

CB Kevin Smith

S Darren Woodson

CB Clayton Holmes

[skinz1972]

Just to help you out Skinz1972, We aquired 8 picks in the trade not 15, and by the time trading picks, and draft/cutting players was finished this is what the Cowboys had to show for the Walker trade. A great amount of talent for sure, but not the majority of our team.

After all was said and done Cowboys had:

RB Emmitt Smith

DT Russell Maryland

CB Kevin Smith

S Darren Woodson

CB Clayton Holmes

D,it doesnt matter,dallas raped minnesota,and the NFL let it happen,so aikman benefitted.

[ukskinsfan]

From a "football point of view" the Art Monk to the HOF comes done to how important longevity is when weighing up a players career (Does Vinny Testaverde #6 in completions & passing yds belong in the HOF ?). Art Monk was a very good WR for the length of his career but was only really a "dominant" player for 3 or 4 of those seasons.

I'm listing below the stats of WRs who played the majority of their careers at the same time as Art Monk (so the different era arguement can be ignored). These are the WRs I remember from this period. The per season line is the average per game * 16. There are only 2 Hall of Famers in this list (Lofton & Largent) and none of the other players on this list are even HOF semi-finallists but all are eligible. Art Monk's average is near the top of the list for receptions but near the bottom for yds, TDs & yds per catch. Monk's average is about 2yds per catch below most of the people on this list. This lack of yds & TDs is the only "footballing" reason for Monk's absence from the HOF.

Art Monk 80-95

Games 224 Receptions 940 yds 12721 Ave Per catch 13.5 TDs 68

per season 67 909 4.8

Gary Clark 85-95

167 699 10856 15.5 65

per season 67 1040 6.2

James Lofton 78-93

233 764 14004 18.3 75

per season 53 962 5.2

Steve Largent 76-89

200 819 13089 16 100

per season 66 1047 8

Mark Clayton 83-93

158 582 8974 15.4 84

per season 59 909 8.5

Mark Duper 82-92

146 511 8869 17.4 59

per season 56 972 6.5

Sterling Sharpe 88-94

112 595 8134 13.7 65

per season 85 1162 9.3

Anthony Carter 85-95

140 486 7733 15.9 55

per season 56 883 6.3

Cris Collinsworth 81-88

107 417 6698 16.1 36

per season 62 1002 5.4

(All stats are taken from www.pro-football-reference.com )

For reference here are Michael Irvin & Jerry Rice's numbers. I haven't included them in the above portion as they didn't met my era criteria as both played a large part of their careers after Monk's retirement.

Michael Irvin 88-99

159 750 11904 15.9 65

per season 76 1197 6.5

Jerry Rice 85-04

303 1549 22895 14.8 197

per season 82 1209 10.4

My view is that Monk's body of work is worthy of a HOF place but I don't think that arguement is as overwhelming as most people on this site would make out.

[BigDFan5]

D,it doesnt matter,dallas raped minnesota,and the NFL let it happen,so aikman benefitted.

LOL so now that you were proven wrong it doesn't matter? Aikman was a great QB a 1st ballot hall of famer there is no question about that. He bennifitted by getting Emmitt sure, name a HOF QB that didnt have a great player with him.

[skinz1972]

LOL so now that you were proven wrong it doesn't matter? Aikman was a great QB a 1st ballot hall of famer there is no question about that. He bennifitted by getting Emmitt sure, name a HOF QB that didnt have a great player with him.

no i wasnt proven wrong,the fact is had it not been for that lopsided trade,dallas WOULDNOT have won SB's in 90's

[skinz1972]

LOL so now that you were proven wrong it doesn't matter? Aikman was a great QB a 1st ballot hall of famer there is no question about that. He bennifitted by getting Emmitt sure, name a HOF QB that didnt have a great player with him.

marino didnt have a stud RB

[DCMONEY]

It kills me how a player can be gone for awhile and people disrespect. I guarantee you right now, if Monk in his prime were to play right now especially with CB's not being able to get too physical with WR's now he'd eat this league up. If what Monk did was so easy, why didn't everyone back then do it. The only reason today's WR's get more cathches is because CB's can't touch them.

[DCMONEY]

marino didnt have a stud RB

:notworthy Amen

[BigDFan5]

no i wasnt proven wrong,the fact is had it not been for that lopsided trade,dallas WOULDNOT have won SB's in 90's

You werent proven wrong?? ok then name the 15 draft picks we got from Minny remember the ones you said I was "to young" to remember. Where are they at?

As for not winning SBs in the 90s thats ridiculous nobody has any idea what would have happened. As you seen a majority of our team came from our own draft picks not that trade.

[skinz1972]

You werent proven wrong?? ok then name the 15 draft picks we got from Minny remember the ones you said I was "to young" to remember. Where are they at?

As for not winning SBs in the 90s thats ridiculous nobody has any idea what would have happened. As you seen a majority of our team came from our own draft picks not that trade.

u cowboy troll,buffalo were better than cowpokes.

[BigDFan5]

u cowboy troll,buffalo were better than cowpokes.

Oh I see, now that you have been proven wrong its time for the name calling. For a minute there i thought I was going to get an intelligent conversation out of you. I guess I was wrong. Yes Buffalo was sooo good they lost 4 SBs in a row I know I know it was all luck Dallas won 3 out of 4 LOL

[skinz1972]

Oh I see, now that you have been proven wrong its time for the name calling. For a minute there i thought I was going to get an intelligent conversation out of you. I guess I was wrong. Yes Buffalo was sooo good they lost 4 SBs in a row I know I know it was all luck Dallas won 3 out of 4 LOL

u are a troll,ur not a skinz fan ur a cowpoke fan,3 out of 4? try getting 3 with 3 different QB's,RB's as joe gibbs has done is more impressive than winning 3 out of 4

[BigDFan5]

u are a troll,ur not a skinz fan ur a cowpoke fan,3 out of 4? try getting 3 with 3 different QB's,RB's as joe gibbs has done is more impressive than winning 3 out of 4

No see a troll is someone looking for a fight, I was looking for intelligent discussion, you just were not able to hold up your end of the bargain and had to result to name calling ect.

As for which is more impressive only 2 teams have ever won 3 out of 4, but it doesnt matter winning 3 SBs is impressive no matter what so neither is more impressive than the other. Whats next you gonna say your trophies are shinier? lol

[Brianbien83]

You can't really compare a quarterback to a WR in HOF balloting. Quarterbacks are really put on a pedestal by virtue of their "field general" persona. That fact is illustrated by this year's class...Aikman gets in, the guy he threw all those passes to does not. That being said, if Irvin gets in before Monk, it will be a travesty, as Monk's numbers are better than Irvin's.

BigD, you're right that Monk didn't retire with either most receptions in a season or most career receptions. He was second to Jerry Rice. Second to the greatest receiver in the history of the game is no reason to be shut out of the Hall. Monk is still, even now with the ridiculous rules that make it tough for CB's to play D, 5th in receptions through a career, and 9th in yards. Largent is in, and it was Largent's record that Monk broke for career catches. Granted, Largent has more yards and touchdowns.

There is just no logical reason to keep Monk out, especially when Swann and Stallworth are in. Lofton and Largent both have more yards and more touchdowns, but Monk has more catches. You can argue that a receivers job is to score touchdowns and eat up yards, but what about third down? I don't know stats on this, but I'd be interested to see third down reception and reception for first down numbers. I don't know that anyone can make a valid argument for keeping Monk out, but it seems that the writers are hell bent on doing just that.

[MikeB]

LOL mike,u must be a cowpoke fan.and we didnt need 15 drafts picks for 1 player either.

Busted. You got me. I'm a Cowboys fan.

First off, who is we? You didn't play on any NFL team my friend.

Second, what is with the bold? What does that mean?

Third, if you just want to be a blinded homer who can't respect that there are others, who are Skins fans, that have differing views then you then perhaps a message board is not really for you.

Welcome to America. Welcome to the fact that I have a different opinion then you and am a Skins fan. And while you are trying to comprehend what I am saying, show a little respect and try to argue your point without all the sniping.

[DeaconBlue]

Mike how about this. I respect the fact that you have an opinion.I do not however respect the opinion you have chosen to take. I beleive that it is in error. Just because you have a right to your opinion does NOT mean that that opinion has to be respected.

[cphil006]

i agree with a lot of the voters

when one thinks of a true hof player they are game changing players--they are players a defense or offense cord must game plan for always on every play

monk doesnt fit the category--he was a good player--a great team player but not dominant game changing player

the teams were more fearful of clark and the running game then monk

i think monk will get in but it will be like a swann type--10-11 tries

What?? He burned Deion up and down the field. He was QUIET...He didn't go on "Cribs" and show his house. Didn't do commentary...all he did was retire as the all0time leading receiver...not a game changer...? He won 3 Super Bowls....!!!

[philal0102]

i agree with a lot of the voters

when one thinks of a true hof player they are game changing players--they are players a defense or offense cord must game plan for always on every play

monk doesnt fit the category--he was a good player--a great team player but not dominant game changing player

the teams were more fearful of clark and the running game then monk

i think monk will get in but it will be like a swann type--10-11 tries

:doh:You my friend are insane.

[Coach Gibbz Rulez!!!]

He definitely deserves to be in the HOF. He was a game-changer. If you look at the career stats for someone like Mark Clayton, I'm sure he retired with more prolific stats. I didn't actually go look at them, but I'm just making the assumption that he did. However, one can't just look at stats to see who is HOF material. Monk was part of Redskins teams that went 4 SB games, and won 3 of them. He was a big part of all those wins. The guy made clutch catch, after clutch catch, throughout his career. When Gary Clark came on board, it lightened his load a little. He was getting a bit older, and so Clark was more explosive, becoming the #1 guy for us, but Monk was still his usual, business-like self, making the big plays, doing his job. I'll say it again, stats aren't everything, but let's face it, even if they were, his stats aren't shabby, not by any means. I am a diehard Redskins fan, so I know I'm biased, but I can also say that because I'm such a hardcore fan, I was watching almost every single one of those games, so I saw what he did. I don't have to consult the stats in order to know how great a player, and a game-changer, he was. I remember it vividly. I hope he gets in, someday, but I wonder if he will. I've read what Peter King thinks, and I don't think he'll ever vote for him. It will always come down to who else is eligible in a given year. Monk's best shot will be in a year with no real stand-outs being eligible along with him. I think he is a stand-out, but it's clear that some influential HOF voters do not. It's sad, but it's reality. Here's to the hope that he eventually gets in. We all know how great he was, and not just for us. I would have kept him, even if given the chance to acquire most of his peers. Would I have traded him for Jerry Rice? Yes. It would have broken my heart to do so, though. Monk was easily one of the best in the league, and he was consistently that way for a lot of years, and that's saying something. 3 SB rings says it all.