Cheney Pushes Senate for CIA Exemption on Torture

[Thiebear]

yes Bear, and right inside the manual is exactly what I describe.

You are the king of picking and choosing what you want without admitting anything ever. I show you we used it always and it has been used for 2000 years and you say we didnt... I show you where its worked and you point out where it hasnt..

But if you show where it hasnt: You admit without admitting that we've done it. And by picking and chosing sentences throughout pages of text you try to say it doesnt work.

Nice try, please play again.

[Thiebear]

I cited the Geneva Conventions themselves. If you will re-read your own definition and definitions within the definition you will see that insurgents with weapons on display and command structures qualify as lawful combatants if they obey the conventions themselves. If you wish to prove an insurgent is not a lawful combatant you have to give him a trial and prove he is a spy or disobeys the conventions. Insurgents and members of Al Qaeda carry weapons, belong to command structures, have been invaded, and very few have been given trials. They are lawful combatants. They do not have to wear traditional uniforms or be a party of a country that is a treaty signator--only present themselves as combatants (so they are not taken as spies) and themselves obey the conventions. It does not matter what wikipenia says>the conventions themselves are the operative authority (try reading them) and define their own terms. Further, all torture of civilians is prohibited. Why not put the Bush and Fox BS aside and take a look at the Conventions themselves rather than the spin.

As to my sources. There are multiple sources for every bit of information I've referenced above. If you don't like one of them, just go to google and pick another on the same subject. None of the items are secret. All have had their day on major media. I'm not breaking any new ground with this post. I could have posted 20 times as much with multiple references for each item.

Actually Insurgents don't normally count, but I believe Bush gave them an Umbrella justification a year or 2 ago... So your are wrong, but right.

[Crazyhorse1]

To get back on point, Cheney and Bush must be lunatic to go against their own party on the torture issue, especially against McCain, a legitimate war hero who knows of what he speaks, and Frist, who can at least count votes. This is W's biggest blunder since the Miers nomination. He and Cheney already look like a couple of wingnuts-- I can't even see the Christian right being snookered into going for this one.

And the secret prisons in the Eastern block! Good Lord! Did Reagan tear down that wall so Bush could build it up again? Is this the correct spelling of totalitarian?

[Sarge]

I cited the Geneva Conventions themselves. If you will re-read your own definition and definitions within the definition you will see that insurgents with weapons on display and command structures qualify as lawful combatants if they obey the conventions themselves.

You've got it wrong again, but that's not surprising

IN order to be a lawful combatant, you have to be fighting for a country or sovergn government which is a signatory to the conventions

[chomerics]

You are the king of picking and choosing what you want without admitting anything ever. I show you we used it always and it has been used for 2000 years and you say we didnt... I show you where its worked and you point out where it hasnt..

Bear, I said in the other thread that I was shocked and astonished that this was going on. I also said why is THAT leak not being investegated? It was the first I ever heard about it, and found it hard to believe. . . you really should go there and read the responses.