Talking smack: Who will be better in 5 years, Gardner or McCants

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Originally posted by GURU

This is an absurd debate.

Why is the debate about Gardner and McCants? What about Derrius Thompson? .... And Chris Doering?

GURU, I agree with you on both Thompson and Doering, and I was also very impressed by Lockett.

I expect Doering and Lockett to be extremely productive for the team. I do sense an "upper limit" to their talents, but I think both are worthy of consideration as starters, and if they start for us, I'm sure they'll post great numbers. (Doering has the higher potential, in my view.)

And you are very correct about the potential for Thompson -- he's got huge potential, maybe even higher than Doering, though I expect Doering to be more productive immediately.

I picked McCants partly because of what I saw, partly because he's the biggest underdog of the four, partly because of Spurrier's comments, and also because I put big stock on his college TD ratio. As a reminder, McCants caught 36 passes with 18 TDs as a senior. By comparison, Thompson caught 78 passes and 2 TDs over four years at Baylor.

McCants TDs: 50.0%

Thompson TDs: 2.6%

The McCants TD ratio is nothing short of shocking. You can make up explanations for it, but I think the true explanation is what we saw in Osaka: this guy simply dominates secondaries during runs after catches.

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Originally posted by SonnyJ

ASF, I think it's cool that you demonstrate the courage of your convictions with your bold opinions. Forgive me, though, for stating that you seem a little flighty with your instant proclamations of greatness and mediocrity. I hope for two things: 1) that the coaches aren't nearly as hasty as you, and, 2) you keep up your hasty proclamations. They make for a lively forum.

Hey, thanks for that! Right back at ya.

Hopefully everybody here understands my m.o., which is partly to state my opinions as clearly and as forcefully as I can -- which sometimes involves taking risks -- and partly to stir up trouble through unpopular opinions and jokes. Oh, and also because I'm right all the time.

(For the humor challenged, that was a joke.)

If you can't have fun in a forum, why bother?

You guys are lots of fun, whether you agree with me or not.

[Charlie Murphaaay]

McCants has had ONE game. ONE game. Gardner is better, he's played 16 games against PRO CALIBER CB's. Gardner is faster. McCants needs 20 yards to gain speed, he's slower out of the block than Gardner.

Wait until McCants goes through an entire season first. Jumping to conclusions after one game in which McCants didn't even start. He was on the practice team for two years...give it some time Atlanta Skins Fan...he still has pine in his *** from sitting on the practice squad bench for two years.

We all hope these recievers will emerge as greats, if not capable starters in this league, but only time will tell.

[skins_fan_in_TX]

Originally posted by rellim

McCants has had ONE game. ONE game. Gardner is better, he's played 16 games against PRO CALIBER CB's. Gardner is faster. McCants needs 20 yards to gain speed, he's slower out of the block than Gardner.

Wait until McCants goes through an entire season first. Jumping to conclusions after one game in which McCants didn't even start. He was on the practice team for two years...give it some time Atlanta Skins Fan...he still has pine in his *** from sitting on the practice squad bench for two years.

We all hope these recievers will emerge as greats, if not capable starters in this league, but only time will tell.

Actually, McCants had several incredible catches during last year's preseason as well, so he is not a one-game fluke. I don't think that he got much of a chance then in part because Marty stressed the running game and in part because some of the other WRs on the team were faster. However, SS's offensive schemes rely more on accurate route-running than pure speed, so he could be a great fit for this offense.

[Blade]

Welcome aboard skins_fan_in_TX!

McCants was drafted last year by Marty, so he only sat on the bench for one year. If I remember right, he was a 5th round pick.

He is a big strong guy much in the same mold as Gardner... just without the speed

[BlitzFiftySix]

ASF,

What do you have against Rod? I know from personal experience that his isn't the most fan friendly player on the team. But damn, when he brings in a TD this year I get the impression that you will sigh with disgust rather than cheer with joy. Whats up with that?

[chiefhogskin48]

This is the most ridiculous poll I've ever seen. McCants is not even a lock to make the team much less become a good player.

:shootinth :shootinth :shootinth

:gus: :gus: :gus:

[OrangeSkin]

ASF, this is absurd. Do you formulate ridiculous opinions assuming that someday one of them will turn out to be right? McCants had a decent game against people who will be working in Jiffy Lube in a couple of weeks, and he is nowhere near Gardner. For some reason, I can't see him having 211 receiving yards in a regular season game.

You said that you dislike the "hype" that Gardner receives, but last time I checked, he wasn't getting any. Gardner is almost an afterthought in our receiving corps because he has such a stranglehold on the #1 wideout position.

You have no reason to believe that McCants is anywhere near Gardner, but the "RG fanclub" as you like to call sensible people, have loads of proof as to why Gardner will be a standout for us. Your best argument is that McCants made some nice catches against S-C-R-U-B-S.

Like I said, your argument holds no water at all and is completely absurd. It seems like you're pulling things out of your as$ just so you can stoke your ego if any of this $hit comes true.

[Joey T]

No one has mentioned the injury factor.:hammer:

Which player is more injury prone:rofl:

If I may quote:

McCants was drafted last year by Marty, so he only sat on the bench for one year. If I remember right, he was a 5th round pick. He is a big strong guy much in the same mold as Gardner... just without the speed

- Blade

Speed kills:cool:

End of debate:hammer: :laugh:

[indyskinsfan]

I picked McCants, because I was paid to do so

just kiddin'. McCants is special. Gardner's now in control and he will go as far as his desire takes him. It's up to him.

McCants can't help it - he is blessed, period. Unlike Thompson, who shows much promise, but still needs to keep working at it, McCants has that something that seperates an average player from a great one. He is fun to watch and fits this offense like a hand in glove. He is a God-given, once in a lifetime, natural, as he is ahead of every receiver over the past two months, to include the exhibition game and practice.

Remember, these type of guys aren't made, like Thompson, they're born!

[OrangeSkin]

Indy - If that's the case, then how come he didn't go to Miami and get drafted in the top 5?

[Joey T]

I agree Indy. He is one big, fast dude. With good hands to boot:cool:

He's from Delaware State and I hope he is as good or better than John Taylor (9ers).

[indyskinsfan]

It could be because he needed to find that in himself. Could have been HE was the one holding back, as to not step on favorite's toes. We often forget the personalty issues that shape a person's personable thinking, even when called upon to perform. Just like soldiers. I can name myself and others who were in shells coming up, because that's the way things were, keep the low profile, then after AIT we rose up. Recruiters overlooked the guy and he in turn probably sought the best school that was likely to really give him a chance.

When he matured as a man, his boldness showed more and he also grabbed the concept of the "technical" aspects better upon his maturity. He always had it, but when the college rankings and whoever else rated him, keep in mind he was rated against the NATIONAL best, they used 'disqualifying' data, not the kind for upside. Even though they mentioned his upside, let's just say they skimmed some off. That's the way some things are. Like Jerry Rice not going in the top 15????

Jon Jansen going in the second round is another example. 10's more have had these "big" profile circumtances coming out of college, but it's what they do, when they leave college and the "favored" atmosphere of the alumni, supporters and the well- wishers for the known stars. So his natural abilities were always there, just not used as often or properly.

Could this same case of being "misued" be made for Doehring, Wuerffel?

[fish]

I'm voting for McCants. I have been intrigued by the pick ever since we made it and this year we have a "system" and a coach that can utilize and exploit his talents. It's gonna be VERY fun and interesting to see how he develops. This weekend's game should show us something. If he produces again, LOOK OUT! We might actually have something here.

According to the Post:

The smack of ball against flesh could be heard from the sideline when wide receiver Darnerien McCants made a leaping catch of a pass by Ramsey for a 10-yard touchdown during one drill. Ramsey also hit McCants for a touchdown on the next play, then had a would-be touchdown throw slip through the hands of wideout Reidel Anthony on the following snap.

This was put in to describe how hard Ramsey was throwing the ball. Apparently, he's one of a few that can handle the "heat"!

I have absolutely NO idea how he will match up with Gardner and in this system - one where the most open reciever gets the ball rather than having a "go to" guy - sheer numbeers might not be the most accurate method of measurement. Of course that is what we're stuck with so it'll have to do.

All you knuckleheads saying that this is a "stupid" topic, SHEESH! Chill out will ya? As seen by the number of posts and hits, some of us found it an interesting topic, so get off your horse!

[CBMGreatOne]

First off, make no mistake, McCants had an exceptional game in Japan. This, however was one preseason game that was almost entirely meaningless. I'm excited about McCants, as well as Doering and Thompson based on their performances in Osaka, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. That game told us that we have a lot of talent at receiver, but there's no reason to compare this guys to what Gardner did in REAL games last year.

It's great that we're stacked at receiver, but people are jumping on the McCants bandwagon far too early IMO. The important thing is that the more productive wideouts there are on a team, the more each produces. Case in point 99 Skins vs 00 Skins

99: Westy 60+ catches 1100+ yards 6+ TDs

Connell 60+catches 1100+ yards 6+TDs

2000: Westy out

Connell 40- catches 800- yards 3 TDs

[indyskinsfan]

Ouch :laugh: Point taken.

Thompson, I always liked and always thought if give a fare shot for "what" he does best, could make it.

McCants I never really paid enough attention to, but when I went to TC, I did notice his flow and feetwork, body english, vision. I knew he was a natural by that, but just didn't know how good of a natural.

No, I am not basing that on the game shown just on t. v., and yes 99% of all preseason games are meaningless, when it comes to fire in the belly,gut checking, smash mouth, let it all hang out football! Not a bandwagoneer at all.

Just more than a "casual" observer.

[Tommy-the-Greek]

ASF, You really don't like Gardner. For awhile I thought you were just being a harsh critic of his first season, but you really don't like the kid. What did he do? DId he date your sister?

[NavyDave]

I like what I saw of D Mac in camp last year.

He is also faster than Gardner as is Skaggs.

I'm saying push but lets see what happens tomorrow.

[Carlito Sway]

The one thing I'll give Marty S is that he was correct that Gardner always seems to be in the position to make the grab. Body control, muscles, fight - he's got all the intangibles to make the big third-down grab with two guys draped all over him. S-dub's system will keep him more open than a Jimmy Raye scheme, so hopefully he'll be able to give 5% more concentration and look the ball in. Last year, as a rook, he felt the heat since every pass play was a vector and his space to work with could be measured in inches. This year, a little older, more seasoned and integrated, I expect big things.

The one edge I'll give McCants is that Rod is so jacked that it seems he can't really run away from defenders - I think he got tracked down from behind twice last year. I think McCants has the jets to preclude that possibility.

But all in all, odds or no odds, I'm with Rod for being a bigger factor over the same period. Plus, y'all may have neglected to take into account the difference in CB talent each will face.