Ghost of

Pittman4Two?

There was a time when everyone opened a Pittman4Two thread (he was also known to frequent CPND, and apparently other NFC East teams boards.) Alas, that era is over I think.

6 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

From another forum:

 

"As a bitter Ravens fan, I'll offer this: he did slightly give me Brandon Staley 2.0 vibes. He has a meek, bland personality that I never thought would be a great leader of men.

 

He's definitely good at mixing coverages. I'm not sure how much credit he should get for the front 7 and the pass rush because Anthony Weaver and Chuck Smith are doing great work there. MacDonald basically dials up pass defenses and allows space to run the ball because Roquan cleans up any mess between the tackles. MacDonald's defenses got much better after the Roquan trade, but Roquan is an All Pro and Seattle doesn't have that kind of off-ball LB. He will have to focus much more controlling running lanes on 1st and 2nd down with Seattle than with Baltimore.

 

Lastly, the Ravens have built up an infrastructure that has given them good to great defense for the past 25 years (only below average defenses in regular season came during injury decimated years (such as 2015, 2021). This includes draft, development, talent eval, and coaching. I guess it remains to be seen how much MacDonald benefited from that or if he is capable of creating that infrastructure in Seattle."

It's like people who watch the NFL don't realize that MacDonald went to Michigan, turned an absolute choking nightmare of a defense (in terms of predictability, leaving guys exposed, etc. with Don Brown) to an elite unit that beat teams with NFL QBs and wideouts. Minter deserves the credit for the title for sure, but I don't know that I'd dismiss MacDonald's work because he transplanted that system to a non-Ravens organization and it excelled and eventually became historically good.

What justifies that insane lazy reach on the Detroit TD?

The only thing I can think is that Chase is trying not to get hurt for his next contract.  But if people see that film, you know that he's going to dog it (which isn't good for any reason). Like, if this were a meaningless TD in a romp in the regular season, maybe you get a talking to and you move on.  But this was in the NFC Championship game. If you're going to lack effort here, when are you not going to decide to be lazy (or scared)?

You're better off with almost any other player at the DE spot right now. Like even the last guy in the depth chart will give you more effort than this.

Good to see Roman showing out. Dude was a hero multiple times this year. Not huge but just seems to get open or make plays.  

MacDonald (who I was behind from the beginning, better culture, proved it on huge stage at Michigan, was part of organizational transformation at Michigan, had historic success this year):

3 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Lamar, like Manning, is an exceptional regular season QB who has had the misfortune of playing in the same era and conference as a top 3 QB of all time.

 

The Titans team Manning lost to was qb'd by Steve McNair and came a yard from tying the Greatest Show on Turf Rams in the SB.  

I'm not sure I buy the comparison or attempt to put these playoffs records on being in the same conference as Brady/Mahomes.

5 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Goff who’s not particularly mobile had the Lions routinely converting on 3rd and long before his receivers started dropping balls that hit them in the hands.

 

Goff was way better than Lamar yesterday, even though Lamar pulled a Houdini a few times escape-wise and was running effectively.

Yes, I find the "hey most QBs don't get to the SB" argument disingenuous. We're talking about who does have sustained success and gives their team good chances to get there and what happens when they face defenses that excel at confusing you or making you do things you're less comfortable with. That's why the ability to throw from the pocket, manipulate it and improvise but still pass are more important than just running alone (no matter what kind of runner you are.) There are statues at QB who had magnificent game-changing runs (including Brady) in the playoffs.

26 minutes ago, wit33 said:

This is a similar fate most great QBs face year in and year out. It’s not only reserved for the elite dual threat guys. 

But Purdy and Mahomes can both run and move. Arguably, if Purdy wasn't hurt last year, this is the same matchup we'd have.  Also, the difference is that some Qbs come up short but have great games while doing so and the difference is just the defenses, special teams, bad coaching.  Although Lamar wasn't awful yesterday the lesson I'd take is:

1) You need to be really good from the pocket and have ability to make drive-sustaining/back-breaking runs. 

2) You also need to use your mobility to look downfield.

I don't think you need to be "elite" in Lamar's particular ability to run, shift, and mostly avoid mega-hits.

All of the QBs we're looking at can move, that's not the issue. What we want is someone who can do #1 really well when the times call for it because that's what will set them apart from the guy who is more "average" at dissecting defenses or as a passer but is "great" at running.

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

Missing Ben Roethlisberger but yeah the AFC was just dominated by only a select few guys

Looking at the NFL though, I see a league of mediocre QB play with inflated numbers. Not back in 2009-10 necessarily but definitely now.  No one can beat Mahomes, even when they shut him down partially because no one has a QB who can elevate his play enough in the big moments. Brady, Mahomes all performed in higher pressure moments and could elevate their teams (or do just enough to not kill the team when they were struggling.  Allen has the talent but something seems off about them and he does make some big mistakes at times.  Maybe Herbert will be that guy to dethrone now that Harbaugh is there and they have a real defensive coordinator. Or Stroud with another year under his belt. 

6 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I don't think it's wrong to want a QB who can actually deliver in January.  

Brock Purdy had better stats and higher QBR than Lamar Jackson this year and it seems fairly clear that his defense is not as good (still very good) as Baltimore's this year. Yet Purdy gets ___ on, again and again. Is it because he's Mr. Irrelevant? or? I know when I hear pundits talk about the two, I notice some strange patterns.

Did you know that Lamar is 0-4 in postseason play when his defense surrenders more than 13/14 points? Yesterday, Mahomes and KC were shut out in the second half and Ravens could still not overcome...at home...as the #1 seed.  This isn't the first time Lamar's lost as #1 seed either.

It's a joke that he'll have as many MVPs as Joe Montana and more than other great QBs (Brees). 

He wasn't the best defensive lineman here. Arguably his rookie season, but that's it.

45 minutes ago, Bantu said:

It's the "buying a car" type of not letting out of the building lol

"Ben, don't give them your driver's license, NO BEN!"

Yeah Mahomes is a baseball talent because of his arm (and presumably hitting, I don't know much about his baseball career). He's not the eyepopping athlete that a lot of QB prospects have been. You know who Mahomes is?

He's Fran Tarkenton.

5 minutes ago, dunfer said:

220 At 6’1 is borderline fat though unless you’re all thighs

I've been about that most of my adult life and when I was younger I was definitely not fat. 

4 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

Hilarious to see people in this thread do exactly what every league expert and all the GMs said teams did with Mahomes and Herbert and Stroud which was a mistake.

 

SkinsInParadise even posted a whole article about it. 

Stroud was a hell of a college QB and great from the pocket, what is you talking about?

38 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

I think the one with colt Mccoy also showed him layering the ball over the middle really well. 

 

Look at the top of his head. 

Narrow shoulders. Pencil neck. Gets hit like Sonic with gold rings popping out.  No sixth sense of the great QBs. Also his name is Jayden instead of Jalen, the cultural phenomenon started by famous Michigan Man, Jalen Rose (his mom, really). Following in the illustrious footsteps of Will Smith's no talent offspring. Nothing but red flags for this guy. 

Pass, and unfortunately I'll be passing into a tighter window than he's seen 

2 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

Are the same people who said "Daniels is nothing like Lamar" now using Lamar's play as an excuse not to draft Daniels? It would be hilarious if it wasn't so predictable. 

No it's a reflection on people wanting quarterbacks not two great dual threat players who aren't surgical from the pocket when needed. What's worse is that Daniels has no sixth sense about getting rocked and he's not built to take that abuse. Notice how Mahomes just knows where to step in and out of the pocket? He doesn't even have to run that much. 

Yeah highest qbr means not as much if you take hits and don't look downfield enough to throw. And throw to big open windows.  

1 minute ago, mac8887 said:

Jayden had less than half the interceptions maye had this year.

Easier to throw to huge windows or decide to run without looking downfield and limit picks. 

I want a QB not a weapon who plays at QB.

1 minute ago, klwilkins1977 said:

Yea... I don't want the next Lamar either.  Who wants a guy who wins MVPs... breaks off highlight reel plays with his feet and arm constantly... who obviously works on his craft to become better?  

 

Yea... keep that ishbisln Bmore...

He's a great player. Mahomes is a great Quarterback. 

13 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Keeps looking good from metrics and mental makeup test for McCarthy. And keep in mind while Michigan's receivers are "good" they aren't Washington's or Malik Nabers. Loveland will play on Sundays at TE. Roman Wilson can make it but he's not Odunze. 

52 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Metrics and numbers are difficult when it comes to college QBs. There is such a wide discrepancy in supporting cast, opposing talent, age etc.

 

Remember, you're drafting a guy based on how his traits and potential will develop and eventually translate in the pros, not for what he did strictly in college. Otherwise, Stetson Bennett would have been a 1st rounder.

A lot of those metrics suggest McCarthy is underrated in a number of ways, liking at least some of those numbers under pressure.  

Speaking of the difference between knowing where the other guys are vs. getting rocked like a Looney Tunes character, you don't see those hits much on McCarthy. He seems to know how to get down and even get an extra yard without taking big hits. He also is pretty good in the pocket.

And if you recall that trick play where he leaped up, made a one handed grab and threw a pretty on target pass while getting rocked (to Roman Wilson) vs. Alabama, that's the kind of 5 star athlete you're getting with him.

If I had my druthers, we'd skip Maye. I think Caleb probably will be special but I don't think the Bears are passing on him. The people who put Bo Nix there with McCarthy are huffing paint.

10 hours ago, mistertim said:

I do like some things about McCarthy but I also think it's a bit tough to evaluate a guy in his situation because he wasn't really asked to do all that much, as he was part of a team with a fearsome defense and extremely effective rushing attack.

 

Though I'm a bit dubious about his arm talent. He seems to be able to make all the throws for the most part, but I've also definitely noticed that on intermediate and out routes where he needs to get the ball there on time he tends to really have to put everything into the throw for it to get there with enough zip. He's not Colt McCoy level, but I'd say he's probably got an average to slightly below average NFL arm.

Looking at the offense under McNamara and under McCarthy, he is asked to do a lot, it's just within certain bounds, of course. This year he was hurt during Penn State and couldn't drive into his throwing base well (especially in the pocket) the rest of the year.  I would need to review throws from earlier in the year on those routes/areas of the field that you mentioned to see if you're right.

He made a great throw to Roman Wilson vs. OSU that was an NFL read and throw.  I note that I've said (perhaps in this thread) that I thought Tom Brady was great (for different, pocket passing reasons) but that I was not sure about his deep outs. I don't think McCarthy joins the Marinos, Elways and whoever else people put at S-tier.  But he's at B-tier at worst. He's not Chad Pennington out there. 

I do think McCarthy would benefit from a year of patience to fill in the gaps and get practice and mental reps without any pressure, similar to how at Michigan he was there during the COVID year, had some reps in 2021 with McNamara but was the backup, and then blossomed in 2022 through this year.

Ultimately, some of the same reason I liked Brady is why I like McCarthy. Any nitwit with a cannon can make throws that make your jaws drop on occasion.  And smarter/more intuitive guys can occasionally put together a surgical drive.  What matters in winning championships is how you respond under pressure. I know LKB likes to make fun of the idea of clutch play/players (or that's who I remember being an opponent of it) but it seemed pretty clear that Brady was a tier above everyone else, including Manning when it came to those types of moments.  I like that McCarthy has specifically called out his reads of coverage and recalling from film study that the LB or S from OSU didn't turn his head on a certain route and it ended up a touchdown.  

24 minutes ago, mojo said:

That's worrisome.  The last thing I want to see is another RG3 who was willing to get pounded to the turf in an effort to gain an extra yard.  I remember Gruden saying that was one of worst traits, thinking he could score a TD on every play.

Jayden Daniels also doesn't look downfield when he scrambles. It's just a straight up run.  That's also worrisome. And by the metrics I saw (in this thread?) Daniels had the most wide open receivers of any of the top prospects.

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

John Shoop. Uh oh lol

2 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Why are you using extreme examples? How about Jeremy Allen White? Who looked totally different just before he started working out and training for IronClaw

I'm using two huge guys. Let me be more clear, they don't test actors for use of PEDs, therefore you can be assured that most of the significant transformations (mostly mass, I don't think anyone is taking much to perform longer as an actor) are due to that. It's an open secret.  That said, if you're fat or skinny-fat you can certainly do better.  Oh here's one that is absolutely not natural, Kumail Nanjani.

The key part is that I don't care, they're just actors. You can put weight on in college, you're still growing. You can, of course, get in better shape as an NFLer, I just don't think it makes sense to expect a guy like Daniels to put on weight now, at age 23+, at least not enough weight (and naturally) to improve his game and agility.