Guest W&M Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 A few of the lower threads mention our developing guard situation, so lets make it an independent topic. Recently Mookie was moved to left guard and Fletcher moved to right guard. Both of these moves were made after the coach gave major praise to each for their off-season conditioning and strength work. In the past (with Turner), left guard was the pulling position. Though with two quick book-end tackles, I don't see why left is any more important then right when it comes to pulling. Plus, I don't know if Marty uses such a system ... though Matt Campbell appeared to be earmarked for the "pulling guard" position. Anyway, I guess there are three things we can take from this ... and two of them would be great news. 1) We already know that Mookie is exceptionally strong (strongest lineman at the 2000 combine), and he supposedly has a very quick first step. Hopefully he's improved his speed in the 2nd & 3rd step so that he can pull and trap. That may merit the switch to left guard. 2) Fletcher seems like he's finally putting some conditioning and work-ethic into that massive frame. Perhaps the coaches are thinking he's ready for playing time. He did after all, start for a season when he was a fat slob. 3) Finally, these moves could be nothing more than an indication that M.Campbell is really behind in his shoulder rehab. Though if that were the case, I would think that Fischer would be the back-up for M.Campbell, since Fischer has the similar body type (light and quick). But imagine for a second what are line will look like if Fletcher and Mookie turn out to be as skilled as they are big and strong. We already have two awesome tackles that are 315lbs and 23 years of age or younger. Raymer and Fischer (when healthy) are both young, able, and good-sized centers. Add to all that a pair of young guards that run between 340-350lbs. This could be a very good ... and yong line. I think Davis will be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaudry Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 If Fischer proved anything last season it was that he wasn't very good. If he or Leuwenburg are in for more than a few plays, we will have a hard time running the ball. I must admit, I know nothing about Campbell. I'll have to take Art's word for it when he says that Campbell isn't good. 2 years ago I remember hearing from training camp, "Keith Simms is looking awsome." I thought it was just camp talk, but he really did play well. Lets hope we can get the same from Mookie and Fletcher. In my mind, they are still "The Weakest Link" on this team. ------------------ ShonyX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lil mic Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 Id go with #2, In the Washington times today it said that, when offseason practices began Derrick Fletcher struggled through wind sprints, and was unable to finish . Now it seems that he has made remarkable improvment over the past few weeks. It even said that yesterday he stayed after practice with Samuels to run voluntary sprints. This is good news, if he becomes a player we will be dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All In Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 I think these hungrier non-injured O linemen will be better than last year's line. Let's just say that Fletch and Mookie start with Rayhmer, who was hurt last year, Jansen, and Big Sam. I think that's a better line. No Russ Grimm as coach but we have a real vetern, Jim Hanifan type O line coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GURU Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 I'd like to see Moore and Fletcher outright win the starting jobs, but things aren't particularly dire. Mookie and Fletch are more physcially imposing than Fischer and Leeuwenberg, but they both did a good job in the running game when they were healthy. Both were nicked up as the season rolled along, but don't forget the jobs they both did against Tampa Bay and Baltimore. Those were impressive performances. Although probably not the most desirable starters, both could go long stretches if neccessary. In my opinion, injury probably had much more to do with the interior line play last season than the level of talent. All three starters suffered season-ending injuries, and the backups had to endure some nagging injuries that kept them from playing at 100%. The level of play was disappointing towards the end of the year, but those guys sucked it up. You have to credit them for being gamers, at least. Health is the key, but the depth might not be nearly as bad as many of us were opining about earlier this offseason. [ by GURU on June 08, 2001.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braves On Warpath Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 The reality of the situation is that our Guards are a MASSIVE (literally) question mark right now. That said, there is a lot of positive information out there. If Fletcher can put it together he has the size to be a force. Of course he has yet to "put it together" but Marty is known for getting the most out of players like Fletcher. There is reason for hope. If things do pan out we could be in for a real treat. A young dominate o-line is the type of thing that wins Super Bowls down the line. ------------------ Fight for Old D.C.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucs92 Posted June 8, 2001 Share Posted June 8, 2001 Warpath, The only things that Fletcher "puts together" are his knife and his fork. ------------------ Hey, didn't you used to be the Boston Redskins (shaddup!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 Bucs92, I don't think any team that started Hegamin and Pierson at tackle last year should be doing any piping up about another team's line. Walker was a good draft pick, but you could throw Wunsch, Christy and 38 year old Randall McDaniel into a barrel for 2001 and come up with some better linemen. Hard for me to imagine the now loaded up Bucs winning the SB with that line. As far as the Redskins go, the team has 3 solid starters in Samuels, Jansen and Raymer. Everything else is a wait and see, because none of the others has done it on a consistent basis before in the NFL. Moore and Fletcher have size and strength, but are very raw. Fischer is coming off a year where he started for the first time in the NFL and had a pretty bad foot injury for most of the second half. Based on that, some of you guys think Fischer is a waste of a roster spot? You are a difficult audience. Raymer and Tre Johnson were god awful their first seasons as starters with the Redskins, remember? The one veteran the team has, Campbell, is hurt and it is questionable when he will be ready to contribute. Campbell is 6'4 and 300 and has good speed and athletic ability for a lineman. He is not in the classic Redskins mold, he is more a 49ers-type guy, quick off the ball and adept at blocking short for ball control passing attack of the WCO. Redskins fans are used to road grader guards and tackles that are 320 pounds and bench like Michael Moore and Tre. If you are looking for that type of player, I guess Art is right that Campbell is not a good guy to have. Campbell in my mind is good insurance if he is certain to be healthy. He can play all five line spots and provides experienced depth behind Samuels and Jansen at a reasonable cost. Think he won't be more effective than Andy Heck and Ed Ellis were last year? Let's tell the truth here. In 2000 our backup tackles were among the worst in the NFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucs92 Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 Bullfrog, Were you dissing our line? That would be the line that allowed the Bucs to rush for over 2000 yds last year at 4.2 yds per carry? Compare that to your great tackles cupcake. True, we had pass blocking problems at left tackle. But Christy is one of the top centers in the league, and only a moron or a babe in the woods would prefer Raymer. The Bucs line will be solid this year, and I wish the same for your Skins, but I'd take Coleman and McDaniel over your pair of guards in a NY minute. In fact I'd take a lottery pick of any other teams guards in the league over yours....starting Patriots cast offs is not a winning formula. ------------------ Hey, didn't you used to be the Boston Redskins (shaddup!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 flamebait92 is at it again. Speaking of castoffs, let's not forget that our guards didn't get voted off Viking island on the basis of their age. Let's also not forget that the Redskins actually had the option of doing something other than running, so your boasts of 2000 yards of Buccaneer rushing is like an impotent man boasting about his celibacy. The Bucs can keep their year 2000 3rd-and-long draw plays to Dunn, thank you. ------------------ "Loosen up, Sandy baby. You're just too damn tight!" - John Riggins to Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucs92 Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 Redgirl, Ah, the jealousy of a man who roots for a team that can't run....you had passing options last year? Pray, tell me how great the Skins passing attack was....I can't seem to find any stats or facts (not that that bothers you) to support you..... Face it sport, the hogs are dead and buried and you are left with 2 good young tackles and a gang of misfits. I can't tell you who the weakest link is, but I can't wait to see George running for his life....goodbye. ------------------ Hey, didn't you used to be the Boston Redskins (shaddup!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted June 9, 2001 Share Posted June 9, 2001 aww buscs, come on, i expect better from you! You are right to say that our guards are not anywhere near the top of the league. One of them has played what 4 downs in the league? and the other as you say is a pats reject. No one here is confident about these guys but there is good reason to beleive that they will fall flat on their face, but there's also good reason to beleive they'll work out too. If you're gonna knock our recent lines though, could you at least be fair and look at our '99 season? That way when you say what passing game? we can say the one that had westbrook, you know the one with 20 ypc for our two top receicers. and when you say offensive line we can say oh yeah the one where we had at least a couple of starters in every game? And uh bucs, if you're gonna start knocking our running game between the tackles, you've got another thing coming. Our line may be torn up, but stephen davis is a beast, and even you must admit that. Even under Norv Turner, we have managed to have some of the best running in the league Consistantly. So knock our QB all you want, you can have him next year when Brad doesn't work out and you need a good backup, but don't start dissing our running game. -DB [ by DrunkenBoxer on June 09, 2001.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 What RuBucs92 has overlooked in his weakass attempt to defend his team is: 1. the number of sacks allowed by his 'powerful run-blocking O-line' 2. the Time of Possesion 3. the total number of yards gained by the offense. Compare: Skins VS Bucs: TOP = 31:27 vs. 29:38 Skins VS Bucs: Sacks = 32 vs. 38 Skins VS Bucs: Total yds = 5640 vs. 4890 Obviously, the Skins had a better balanced attack AND more production AND better protection of 2 much less mobile QBs than Shaun King. And NO Skins fan on this board would say our O-line was solid last year. So, go ahead and take your same-old line again. We'll all just keep pointing at you and laughing. And good luck with that pass protection thing... better hope BJ gets over that problem he had last year of choking once he gets a little bit of pressure on him. [ by Blade on June 10, 2001.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stricknine Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 That's it Bucs92, Work it girl! Sashay, Shante'! Oh and by the way, for a team that can't run...we sure ran all over your a$$es...Stephen had 141 yards against the vaunted Bucs D-line!!! He ran for over 1300 yards on the year, too...neither one of your backs did that. ------------------ Randy Redskin Fan for Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade Posted June 10, 2001 Share Posted June 10, 2001 Great point Randy. I did not spell it out in that last post, but the Skins had about 1800 yards rushing compared to the 2000 of the Bucs... and the Skins had 950yds MORE in passing. Pretty stupid for a fan of the Bucs to state that the Skins have no running game OR passing game. Not that we should expect much more from ol' Ru... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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