Sports talk time in The Chat House!

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The Chat House

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon

Washington Post Sports Columnists

Monday, December 08, 2003; 1:30 p.m ET

Sports talk time in The Chat House!

http://discuss.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/zforum/03/r_sports_tkwilbon120803.htm

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon joined you to talk sports. It all happened right here in The Chat House.

The transcript follows.

Editor's Note: washingtonpost.com moderators retain editorial control over Live Online discussions and choose the most relevant questions for guests and hosts; guests and hosts can decline to answer questions.

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Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: Good afternoon everyone. Sorr we are late. I take the red line to get over here and there were delays. Mike is here ready to go. --Mary

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Falls Church, Va.: Hey guys. Quick question: I know that the BCS was formed in 1998, the year after the Michigan/Nebraska co-championship. Was it the 1997 tie that broke the camel's back and allowed the BCS system to be put in place, or was it just a final confirmation after the system was already set to be implemented?

I ask because I think it would be cool if Michigan played a role in both the birth and death of the BCS system. Thanks!

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: It's hard for me to separate those years. But, yes, it was a final straw situation from what happened in the mid 90's. I'm ready to celebrate anybody and anything that can be involved in the death of the BCS. --Mike

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Washington, D.C.: Hello there! Happy Holidays!

I keep hearing that it's highly improbable, but mathematically probable, that the Redskins can fill a wildcard slot for the playoffs. At this point, what would need to happen for this to happen?

Thanx. CPayne

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: The moon would have to be in the 7th house, and Jupiter would have to be aligned w/Mars. Seriously, the Redskins have to win their final 3 games and the Cowboys would have to lose their final 3 and maybe New Orleans... seriously, don't start this conversation. --Mike

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Springfield, Va.: What are your thoughts about the New York Giant fans? I think that the NFL owners had better stand up and take notice -- The average fan can hit them right where it hurts most -- The Wallet! What would Dan Snyder do if there were 50 thousand no shows at Fedex Field?

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: You know what, you raise a GREAT issue. I don't think most fans are as sophisticated as Giants fans or have controlled their season tickets as long as Giants fans. Boy, what they have done the last 2 weeks, almost in unison, is remarkable and sends an unmistakable message to Wellington and the Giants' other owners. --Mike

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Buffalo, N.Y.: Okay, so Bruce Smith got the lifetime sack record. What is he, now, maybe 100 behind Deacon Jones?

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: At least 50. Deacon Jones was SOO much better a pass rusher than Bruce or Reggie White or Richard Dent or Kevin Green. It's not even funny. But, I think ultimately you have to compare guys against their peers, and maybe one generation before and one generation after. But, Deacon Jones... we should bow our heads when we say his name. --Mike

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Madison, Miss.: Michael, have you made a public acknowledgement of the erroneous information you disseminated regarding the Miss. State University 1963 NCAA appearance against Loyola yet? You stated that the university tried to stop our team's participation, whereas it was actually the governor and government of Mississippi that was trying to stop us from competing. To our credit, the MSU team participated after a clandestine trip to avoid arrest and prosecution. Your article intentionaly portrayed our school in a poor and undeserved light.

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: I'm going to have to look into this further b/c I'm told that there are those w/in the university, all the way to the top, who also tried to stop it. There are a couple of really good stories that have been written about this and I'm going to re-read at least one of them in the next few days and will re-visit it in next week's Chat House. --Mike

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Tysons Corner, Va.: Bruce Smith embodies everything wrong with the Redskins. His mediocre play has not kept him from publicly complaining about his lack of playing time. If only we had a coaching staff willing to implement some discipline by sitting down players like Smith who shoot their mouths off to the team's detriment. Do you think Parcells would put up with that sort of selfishness?

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: In a word, no. Bruce Smith has not been a great player in a Redskins' uniform, but he was indeed a great player for 15 yrs w/Buffalo. I really don't think you want to argue that. But, this whole pursuit of individual goal while the team has been losing is sort of unsavory. And I have known Bruce Smith all his career and 3/4ths of mine and I like him a lot... but not what has happened over the last couple of weeks. --Mike

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Somewhere, USA: Mike's column was too sympathetic to Bruce Smith. I know any silver lining looks bright this season, but this single-minded pursuit of a meaningless individual record was bad for the team. You stated all the reasons why but still let him (and the team) off the hook. Reminds me of Rickey H and his "I am the greatest of all time" after breaking Lou Brock's record. Rickey and Bruce were both great, but that's not what sports should be about.

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: I'm not emotionally invested in the Redskins' season. I'm guessing you are? I don't like what Bruce did the last couple of weeks. But I was writing about his career, which is not a close-up of 4 years w/the Redskins. The sack record shouldn't even be associated w/the Redskins. The man played 15 years before he even arrived in DC. And that has to be put in perspective when talking about a CAREER record. And, if the Redskins coaching staff thought he was being unbearably selfish, they should have done something about it. Also, don't tell me for one second you follow sports closely and think that even the greatest team sport athletes aren't aware of individual records and their own pursuit to those records. Players as great as Pete Rose and Cal Ripken knew every single number as it related to EVERYTHING in baseball, including their own at-bats, hits, runs... all of it. There is a self absorption that goes along w/everything in sports. It's almost a requirement to be that great.

The most unselfish basketball player I've ever come across is John Stockton. But I'll bet he knew how many assists he had in a game. --Mike

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Arlington, Va.: What does "National Champion" mean? Does it mean the best team over the course of the season or the best team right now? I think you could make plenty of arguments regarding all three of the top teams, which points out yet again how flawed the system is. And pretty much any system will have its flaws. Why not have them play in a 3 game round robin? If you want to make sure game 3 is not anticlimactic then make sure the loser of game 1 plays in game 2.

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: It means who is ranked #1 at the end of the season by whatever poll is in question, whether we are talking about AP, USA Today/CNN, or the BCS. --Mike

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Las Cruces, New Mexico: The Ravens defense has not missed a beat since Marvin Lewis left last year, yet we never hear about the good job former Redskins defensive coordinator Mike Nolan has has done in keeping this unit at the top. I mean , Baltimore doesn't evben run Lewis' defense anymore. Does Nolan deserve more credit, or did he just inherit a good defense. I say that he deserves more attention.

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: Not missed a beat? What have you been watching? Marvin Lewis' 2000 Ravens defense set a record for fewest points allowed in a 16 game season. These Ravens are nowhere near that. I know Mike Nolan and I'm glad he has had a chance to not only stay employed as an assistant, but to go someplace and do a good job where he is valued. And, he's clearly done a nice job this year. But, seriously, be a little more sophisticated than to suggest that THIS Ravens defense, which allowed 40 points in a game 3 weeks ago, and 251 this season, is in ANY way as good as Marvin Lewis' defense 3 years ago. When the Ravens allowed 40 pts to Seattle a few weeks ago, that number represented nearly 1/4th of the ENTIRE total allowed by Lewis' defense in 2000. --Mike

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Washington, D.C.: I'd be interesting in hearing your thoughts on the potential ARod to Boston deal. Is there any way the Sox could keep both Nomar and ARod? Is it true that there's no interest in Nomar on the trade market?

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: At this point, after 6 months of trade rumors involving ARod, it has become a "wake-me-when-it's-over" sort of story. ARod is a fabulous player and I would have voted for him for the MVP a couple of times already. But, he's not Babe Ruth. ARod hasn't won anything. He's not Koufax or Gibson. He's a great player who hasn't been able to win in 2 previous stops. Would Boston be happy to get him? Damn right they would. Any team would. But he wouldn't guarantee you anything. It's baseball, which is STILL 75 percent pitching. ARod ain't Jordan or eve Shaq. You can't dominate every game. So, I'm not sitting by the phone on this one. --Mike

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Philly, PA: Heh, ...Eagles, Baby!

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: I'm not from Philly and normally I wouldn't care about the Eagles. But a kid who grew up where I grew up and is a product of a Chicago Catholic high school education just as I am, named Donovan McNabb, quarterbacks your Eagles and so I root like hell for your Eagles. I wonder where all those people are who wanted him benched, many of them in your town who booed him at every opportunity the first 5 weeks of this season. I think the Eagles are the best team in the NFC and there appears to be a showdown coming between my boy Donovan and Tony's boy, who isn't even from Long Island, Brady and the Patriots. I would LOVE to see the Super Bowl. Maybe, they'll let Rush Limbaugh meet the captains at the 50 yd line for the coin toss. --Mike

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Tysons Corner, Va.: Well, I wouldn't have thunk it, but I agree with Kornheiser. The number two team in a conference should not be playing for the national title. It was true in 2001 when Nebraska did it and it's true now. Hopefully, Oklahoma will lose just like Nebraska did. Do either of you think LSU can beat the Sooners?

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: Well, you should have agreed w/me earlier. --Tony

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Bethesda, Md.: Submitting early as I have a meeting today during the chat. Tony, thanks for the article today on the BCS. I guess my problem with the whole thing is: Who the heck really understands how this thing works? It looks like it was formulated as a PhD dissertation for someone studying statistics. I'm sure at some point in the future someone from the BCS will say this is a statistical anomaly. Regardless, you're right...it should be scrapped.

Thanks,

John

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: John, here's the thing. The BCS system doesn't allow for when and how you lose a game. It simply goes by a computer formula. Oklahoma lost 2 days ago by 28 points. That is a last impression. If a team can't win it's own conference, it shouldn't be allowed to play for the national title. --Tony

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Gaithersburg, Md.: When are sports writers (That Includes You Tony) going to come up with a way to evaluate a football game based on a coach being outcoached. This is a dimension of the game that is often overlooked. I mean this on a regular basis not just at the end of the year.

Eric

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: Eric, it's very rare that you can say w/authority that a football coach is outcoached. When it is obvious columnists say so. But after YEARS of being told "we won't know until we look at the film" most sportswriters accept that. --Tony

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Washington, DC: Mr Kornheiser,

You write that "it does matter when you lose, and how" in reference to USC and OU. Well, Boise St lost by 2 a week before USC lost by 3. Why shouldn't Boise State be in the National Championship Game? Tony, any scale (BCS or otherwise) that you use to place USC ahead of Boise St based on strength of schedule will, by extension, place OU ahead of USC. Right?

Ken Archer

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: Ken, Boise State should not be in the national championship game b/c nobody, not even people from Boise State, believe that Boise State is the best team in the country. You can get hung up on strength of schedule all you want, but you can not wish away the fact that Oklahoma lost by 28 pts in its conference championship game 2 days ago. --Tony

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Ashburn, VA: Please make me feel better and tell me that there is NO QUARTERBACK CONTROVERSY IN D.C! I like Hasselbeck, and he will be a solid BACKUP. But there is no question that Patrick Ramsey is the better of the two and should be the starter without any question. Also, could it be possible that Ramsey was not as mobile because of his foot being injured?

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: Ok. Feel better. There is no controversy. Sleep well tonight, pal. --Tony

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Bethesda, Md. : Great columns this AM guys.

Now, do the presidents of USC, OU, Michigan and LSU have a secret conference call and agree that the winners of the "semifinals" will meet in an unannounced location on Saturday January 10 ? No TV, no money, no fans-- just play a game to find out who really is the national champion.

I know this sounds like the plot line for Lupica's next book, but how cool would that be? Sorta like Rocky and Apollo Creed at the end of the movie.

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: That's a very cool idea. It's right out of sports fiction writing. And it would make a cool movie. It's not going to happen, but it's a cool idea. --Tony

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Alexandria, Va.: You're both right, there needs to be a playoff in College Football. But the question (as TK points out) is how to set it up. I'd like to hear your suggestion on how to set it up. Here's mine: Limit the regular season to 11 games and have the season end the week before Thanksgiving. The Conference Championships can be held Thanksgiving Weekend. A 16 team tournament over the first 3 weekends of December would be played and it is set up like basketball. The 11 conference champions get in automatically, and the NCAA picks 5 wild cards. A school that is in independent (Notre Dame) would be elgible for the 5 wild cards. The Championship Game could then be played on New Years Day. The "traditional" bowl system could then be used like the NIT is in basketball, consolation.

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: Yeah, fine. But there will be still be a controversy over who is left out b/c if you have 16 teams you spread the talent pool out so wide that surely a 3 loss team or 4 loss team will argue why them and not us. --Tony

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Virginia: I don't know about you two but I'll certainly miss Ray Hudson, former DC United coach and I don't really like soccer. His quotes were excellent! I always liked hearing him on your show Tony.

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: Me too. I liked having him on and hearing him argue w/Tommy Smyth. I'll miss him. --Tony

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Washington, D.C.: Just to let you know Tony, that the powerhouse of University of Delaware could play your Colgate at the I-AA Championships (yes, a REAL Championship!). I'm a Fightin' Blue Hen graduate. If you've never seen them, they are really good this year. Just a note that their uniforms were taken from Michigan's (which was taken from Princeton).

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: I'm rooting for Colgate to make it for my friend Howard Fineman of Newsweek, a proud Colgate alum and now I'll root for Delaware for you. --Tony

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Herndon, Va.: Mr. Tony and Mr. Mike: I enjoyed Tony's bashing of the BCS, following many of Mike's rants on the same subject. If the powers that be decide to actually set up a real playoff, when could it start? Doesn't the current deal go for three or four more years?

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: I assume they have to wait until the end of this contract, whenever that is. --Tony

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Towson, Md.: I guess I'm just an old goober, but what I hate about the BCS is that it's taken most of the fun out of New Year's Day. Jan 1 used to be the greatest football day of the year, but now it's kind of pointless. Either have a tournament of the major bowl winners or go back to the Good Old Days. The BCS is the worst of both worlds.

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: That's how I used to feel. I used to feel that the Bowl Games were great b/c there wasn't an automatic national champion, so you could watch them all and argue. Now, the only argument is about which teams were left out. I don't like this system. So, like you I am just an old goober. --Tony

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Largo, Md.: Hey Tony, really enjoyed your BCS column, but the polls are just as flawed as the computers, as they are so subjective and invariably penalize the team that lost last. Any artificial system that selects two teams out of a relatively equal group is bound to fail. The only way to find out who's better is to let them play each other. Until they do, this is pretty much an exhibition like figure skating. What a waste.

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: Ok. --Tony

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Boston, Mass.: Tony,

Great column today about the BCS. Aside from the issues at the top of the BCS, how about Northern Illinois getting shut out of any bowl with a 10-2 record. Mike, no offense, but NIU deserves a bowl game more than Norhtwestern does.

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: Stop w/these BCS things. I think Northern Illinois should definitely be in a bowl. How is NU at 6-6 in a Bowl.

Don't get on my boys. --Mike

Miami of Ohio beat Northwestern by 33 pts at Northwestern. This is a JOKE. Northern Illinois should be in a bowl. --Tony

They should be. --Mike

It's prepposterous that any 6-6 team is ahead of N Illinois for a bowl game. But if there is a 6-6 team in a Bowl game, it should be a team playing in a MAC bowl. --Mike

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Washington, D.C.: Some people say Kwame Brown is the biggest bust ever in D.C. I'd think Chamique Holdsclaw (the female "Michael Jordan") has got to be DC's biggest bust. Drafted 1st, got #23, won three national titles, has been hurt these past few years, team near the bottom every year, coming into the season fat, whining that she can't carry the team, etc.

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: Chamique Holdsclaw is a TOTAL stiff. She is hurt ALL the time and when she is not hurt, she can't carry her team to a victory. Kwame Brown appears to be a total stiff, as well. But Wilbon didn't want Kwame Brown and he did say Chamique would own this town. --Tony

No, I didn't. --Mike

And so I want to concentrate on Chamique b/c it exposes Wilbon's vulnerability. --Tony

Good night and God bless. --Tony

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St. Petersburg, Fla.: Rise of the Machines!!!

AP Poll (Human)

1. USC

2. LSU

3. Oklahoma

Coaches Poll(Human)

1. USC

2. LSU

3. Oklahoma

BCS Poll (Computers)

1. LSU

2. Oklahoma

3. USC

Championship Game

LSU vs. Oklahoma

We're Doomed!!!!

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: Ok. Thanks for sharing. --The Chat House

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Austin, Tex.: Mr. K. loved your column on how bad the BCS is. I read it right after I talked to my Dad in San Diego (where UT is headed -- again). He agrees with you. However, gotta check you on your history. Two years ago, the Big 12 Championship was between UT and Colorado, Nebraska did not even make it to its conference championship game but got to play for the National Championship anyway. Reason -- it was believed that Nebraska alumni by more tickets than Colorado ones. It's all about the money -- not the integrity of the Championship.

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: Thank you. --Tony

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Philly, PA: And don't forget, we booed Donovan when he was drafted. Not one of our finer moments...

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: Yeah, pretty bad. --Mike

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Gambrills, Md.: Don't expect an answer, however, hope springs eternal...

I was listening to Mr. Tony this morning for a little while but did not hear if Lupica was actually on the Food Network?

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: He was. --Tony

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Germantown, MD: Is it true that Patrick Ramsey just went on IR?

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: Yes. The AP reports Ramsey is out and he'll have surgery on his foot w/in the next 2 weeks. --Mary

Ok, we have to go...see you next week. --The Chat House

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Washington, DC.: To Austin, TX: Correct, Nebraska did not even MAKE IT to the Big 12 Championship game. Nebraska was #2 in the BCS. That is the only reason they went to the Rose Bowl, not ticket sales.

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: Thanks Washington. --The Chat House

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Waldorf, MD: Re the question about Giants fans and low attendance: I've got friends who've had season tickets to the 'Skins for years. They're going to forfeit their deposit and give up their season tickets next year "It's too expensive and just no fun to go to the game anymore."

Tony Kornheiser and Michael Wilbon: Yeah, it is pricey. My family has season tickets and it's expensive. --Mary

Ok, we are really going now. Have a good week. Stay warm if you're on the East coast. --The Chat House

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