TheKurp Posted May 22, 2003 Author Share Posted May 22, 2003 Originally posted by tommy-the-greek Does the dog have all of it's shots and does the dog suffer from any diseases that have been ignored and not treated. Tommy, I'll begin by saying you are a model dog caretaker. You and Redman have chosen a breed with the full knowledge of the commitment GSDs require, and you walk the walk in providing the time and energy needed to ensure a well-trained and socialized dog. I'm a bit lazier than you and Redman. That's why I chose golden retrievers. I can't envision having any other dog for the remainder of my life. They're easy to train, they aim to please, and if well-bred, almost never display aggressive behavior. From your post I'm not sure if you propose that all dogs be able to qualify for a CDX title, or just the ones that have been identified as having a propensity for aggressive behavior. I think my 10-year-old could get her CDX, but my two-year-old would have trouble heeling at the different speeds required to get even a CD. I just haven't spent as much time with her on heeling. Using the cat example, if the cat were stationary or walking by, both dogs would stay in a sit position as long as I were no more than 10 feet away. If the cat were to run and I was not directly in front of the dogs, well, game on. If we're talking armadillos or deer, again, game on. However I have no doubt in my mind that my dogs would never attack any animal or person. Never have. Don't know how. It's not in their nature. They chase not to harm, but for the love of the chase. I am however acutely aware that not all people like dogs so I try my best to never allow my dogs to simply run up to people unless they give me the okay. This is not to say that goldens should get a pass on aggressive behavior. There are two in my neighborhood that are quite aggressive whenever I pass on a walk with my two. I attribute this to bad, irresponsible breeding or owner conditioning. Well-bred goldens do not have an aggressive bone in their bodies. Now, I'll address your statement that I've quoted above. You use the plural of "shot", making it "shots". The only vaccination required by law is rabies. Even then, there are sometimes varying legal requirements across county lines within the same state. Did you know that there is no difference between a 3-year and a 1-year rabies vaccination? The difference is simply a time span chosen by local governments. So I guess at a minimum you could say that to own a dog, one must adhere to their local rabies laws. Which by the way, I don't. But don't mistake that for my dogs not being protected from acquiring the disease. Then there's parvo, corona virus, leptospirosis, lymes, parainfluenza, adenovirus, distemper, and bordatella. What would be the requirement for these vaccinations in order to qualify for homeowner insurance? Would there be different standards if one administered live-modified verses killed vaccines? For the record, my 10-year-old hasn't had any vaccines other than rabies for the last 6 years. My two-year-old may never get another vaccine other than rabies for the rest of her life. I chose to have her vaccinated with modified-live for distemper and parvo at six months. Riskier, but confers longer immunity. She's had no other vaccinations. In your opinion, should I qualify for homeowner insurance? Now, for the other part of your statement, yes, a vet would immediately be able to recognize if an animal has been mis-treated or neglected. So perhaps the only requirement for homeowner's insurance would be yearly vet visits and a certificate of good health? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJWatson3 Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Originally posted by Skin-N-NY It's not a magical change, it's called experience, but on the other hand, as a person gets older, they seem to loose that. i.e. people over 70. I watched an old woman the other day on the road, she almost caused to accidents and she didn't even make it a 1/10 of a mile. i am terrified of old people driving... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy-the-Greek Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Kurp, I am well versed on what Shots a dog must have in my state. I used the plural form since no dog over 1 years old should have less then 1 shot no matter what state they are in. My vet and I are good friends. I built his new deck and I remodeled his kitchen both at cost mind you and I get atleast a 25% discount on everything I buy thru my trade partners. In return I get free vet service for my dogs and my wifes cats. This summer when I am feelin better I am going to finish his garage for him. I can't imagine anyone having a better relationship with there vet unless they were actually banging them. I think it is noble of you to choose a breed that best fits your lifestyle and ability to dedicate time to them. Most dog owners don't even think about this before they buy a dog. The poor dogs just sit in a corner waiting for the love, attention and dedication they deserve. It makes me sad and mad at the same time when I see this. I won't pretend to have all the answers. What I do know is that there are ways to make it better. Real simple there should be 3 things at the minimum. 1) A dog owner should have to pass a test breed specific. 2) The dog must pass a yearly exam by a vet. 3) Owner and pet should pass some basic test breed specific. Now we can debate the outlines for 1 and 3. This should be interesting to get imput from all kinds of dog owners on this one. I have to go help another buddy finish his bathroom right now. I'll be back in a few hours to check up on what transpires here when I leave. All I have to do is install his new shower enclosure with a 4' buttress panel and caulk it all up. His wife is dieing to get it finished all up since we gutted it. Note to everyone reading this. recaulk your bathroom every 6-12 months. My buddy let it go so long he almost fell thru the floor. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASMTrainer Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Originally posted by AJWatson3 i am terrified of old people driving... Dude, Don't even get me started Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurp Posted May 22, 2003 Author Share Posted May 22, 2003 Tommy, I have no problems with 1 and 3. Number 2 however is pretty ambiguous, so I need some minimum standards. Your statement that "no dog over 1-year-old should have less than 1 shot no matter what state they live in" underscores my point. Unless of course you don't mean "per year", in which case I'll drop that objection. But going on the assumption that you do mean no less than 1 shot per year, what shot would that be in a state where a rabies vaccination is required once every 3 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 I'm fairly well versed in general insurance issues, but tommy's better versed in the dog issues than I am, and he's obviously given this issue more thought. I'd bet that if insurance companies demanded minimum standards - to be enforced by local governments or the SPCA - be met before they insured dogs in a certain area, you'd see an awful lot of activity spring up to put the enforcement in place. In the alternative, the insurance company could work with the AKC or even local breed clubs to ensure certification, particularly of some breeds. Most of the "problem dogs" on that list are popular breeds, which means that they're more likely to have organized breed clubs all over the place. That seems to be the best way to go. And it seems like good business for the first insurance company to use this approach and advertises that approach to people so that they buy policies. In case you haven't noticed, Americans love their dogs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy-the-Greek Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 Kurp, I don't mean every year. A minimum of two multivalent vaccinations (including distemper and parvo) given three to four weeks apart are required for every dog or puppy over three months old. An additional vaccination against rabies is also necessary. Vaccinations against coronavirus, Bordatella, or Lyme disease are based on owner's needs and vets advice and your geographical location. For young puppies, vaccinations usually start at six-to-eight weeks of age and are given every three-to-four weeks until the puppy is 16 weeks of age. Recent information regarding parvovirus may extend this recommendation to 18 or even 20 weeks, especially for Dobes and Rottweilers. Immunizing dogs against disease seems to be a simple process; pet owners may even take vaccinations for granted. It is both the most routine procedure performed by a vet and also the one most prone to confusion and misconception. In the first year of your pups life he may recieve 4-5 shots plural. Healthy adult dogs do not require annual vaccinations they only need the "core" vaccines of rabies, parvovirus, distemper and adenovirus-2 to be given every three years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurp Posted May 23, 2003 Author Share Posted May 23, 2003 Tommy, The protocol you describe appears to be a combination of conventional wisdom mixed with newer vaccination recommendations. I applaud this. It sounds like you've got yourself a top-notch vet. My youngest dog came from a breeder who breeds Goldens for conformation. Actually both my goldens are conformation-bred dogs. However my higher priority for the second golden was it had to be at least a 2nd-generation BARF-bred dog. What I got was a 3rd-generation. :thumbsup: Although I was disappointed to discover that a multivalent vaccine was administered prior to taking possession of my dog. Don't think that I'm against vaccinations, I'm not. But I am concerned about the effect multivalent vaccines have on the immune system, especially in a young puppy whose immune system is anything but developed. Once I acquired my puppy I decided to go a different route, under the supervision of my vet of course. I decided to have only single modified-live vaccines administered for just parvo and distemper; each given three weeks apart starting at 14 weeks. Instead of automatically having boosters given later, I had titers run at 6 months and again at 8 months to ensure that the maternal antibodies didn't interfere with the efficacy of the vaccines. I also waited until 6 months to have the first rabies vaccine adminisered. Then another rabies booster at 1 year of age. That was it. One modified-live parvo, one modified-live distemper, and two killed rabies vaccines. I am lucky to have found a vet who is a recognized specialist in the field of animal immunization. It's very difficult to find a vet who will administer anything but multivalent vaccines. I did the research, discussed with my vet the protocol I wanted to follow, and she worked with me. It's been my experience that vets usually won't diverge from their allopathic schooling. Believe me, I've tried to get a number of vets to work with me because as it stands now, I have to drive across two county lines to get to my current vet. I'd love to find one closer. I do have one vet close by who's now convinced that BARF isn't all evil. He was my older dog's original vet and was unsuccessful at treating her chronic skin and ear infections with anything but prednisone. I do on occasion still visit him for routine things (like the time an armadillo clawed the eye of my older golden) and he performed the spay of my younger golden. He's amazed at the transformation of my older golden. Everytime I visit, which has been about 4 times in the last six years, he calls his assistants in, gives them the history of my older dog, and then has me go into detail about the BARF diet. The point of my long-winded story here is that I want to have the freedom to choose how my dogs are cared for. I would hate to see my homeowner insurance hinge on following a standard that in effect, removes that freedom. For what it's worth, I think you're on to something here and the bottom-line is making people responsible for their dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy-the-Greek Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 Originally posted by TheKurp Tommy, The point of my long-winded story here is that I want to have the freedom to choose how my dogs are cared for. I would hate to see my homeowner insurance hinge on following a standard that in effect, removes that freedom. Kurp, I am not suggesting that your freedom be taking away. If your vet approves your shot regiment that is all that should be required. The bottom line is you took the time to find a process that was good for your dogs needs and your vet rubber stamped it. Number 2 in my previous post is based on a vet seeing a dog a minimum of one time a year. This would let the Ins. companies know that you are a responsible pet owner and that your pet is a healthy dog. I would even go along with every 2-3 years after the dog reaches 3 years old. I personally take my dogs at least 2x a year, but it doesn't cost me anything so I take full advantage of it. For what it's worth, I think you're on to something here and the bottom-line is making people responsible for their dogs. If I had my way only responsible people could own a dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soliloquy Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Originally posted by tommy-the-greek If I had my way only responsible people could own a dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soliloquy Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Originally posted by TheKurp The Centers for Disease Control study dog bite incidents, including the types of dogs most likely to bite. The breeds that the CDC considers highest risk are pit bulls, Rottweilers, German shepherds, huskies, Alaskan malamutes, Doberman pinschers, chows, Great Danes, St. Bernards and Akitas. My mutt's a GSD/Chow/Husky mix (we think). A triple threat! Seriously, obedience training a must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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