Dirk Diggler Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 I'm just breakin your stones, Art. :laugh: Glad we're on the same team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted March 21, 2003 Author Share Posted March 21, 2003 Two things, Flow. 1) Humor: it's so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking some up. 2) I've watched a QB or two in my time, as well. I've watched the league. I've watched the ebb and flow (ahem) of offense vs. defense in the NFL, and how they play off each other and evolve, and I have come to believe that, based on what I see, arm strength has become a far more important factor than it was even 5 or 10 years ago. I can't quantify it, but based on watching way, WAY too much football (or so I'm told), I'm gonna stand by it. The last few years as a Redskins fan have served to bring the whole arm-strength question into very sharp focus for me. Very sharp. And, having watched a QB or two in my time ... what I see from Chad gives me pause. If his head and accruing experience are enough to overcome any perceived arm strength problems, my guess is you've found a gem there. But the truth is I still see Chad as a smart guy with good leadership skills and great hair (or so I'm told) with one really good season of accuracy under his belt ... with a bit of a suspect arm. Maybe if I come sit with you in the stands for a few weeks and watch him throw those seam passes under duress for a while I'll change my mind ... but until then, I'm not prepared to simply discount the impressions I have gotten based on my own observations, as well as the comments along those lines I've been hearing since before he was drafted on your say so, no matter how earnestly you tell me otherwise. Although feel free to keep trying. Certainly another year of experience will help Chad in terms of game management. We're counting on the same thing for our own young QB (you know, the one with the cannon hanging from his right shoulder ). It won't help a suspect arm, though, and all that I've really said is that I have my doubts Chad's arm will stand up to the test better defenses are going to subject him to now that he's no longer an unknown quantity. I've also suggested (if obliquely) that he may not have the tools to work with that he did last year in his break-out season. Throw all that together, and I'm not quite as sanguine about his immediate OR long-term future as you are. So you know, if Chad Pennington comes out and reprises or improves on last year, I'll actually be rather pleased, because the fact is I happen to be a bit of a closet Jets fan (there's a story there, but we'll save that for another post). I'd genuinely like to see the team, and the young QB, do well. Starting in Week Two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowtrain Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Well it's been a tough couple weeks for Jets fans so you'll have to excuse a lack of humor when I'm posting on the team's board that just raided our roster. However, I did find your last post pretty amusing. You're free to doubt Chad as a QB, but it's certainly amusing to watch you reach. Grasp away. You're essentially claiming that the Raiders stumbled upon a road map to completely neutralize Chad, while the Fins and Belichick's Pats (2x each), and all other teams were completely oblivious to this magical pixie dust. And Moss, in the traditional 3rd year breakout, Chrebet, Conway, an early WR draft pick, a strong running game, and Chad's natural development are essential non-factors. That's quite a prognostication - I'd hate to hear what you think of the future of some of the rest of the NFL's rising stars. It's funny how Chad's proven success casts doubt on next year, but Ramsey's incomplete grade means he'll succeed. Since your QB ranks close to last in completion % and near the bottom in INT %- I'd say it's safe to say concerns surrounding Ramsey are slightly better founded than those surrounding the QB that led the NFL in accuracy and rating in just his first year starting. If all else fails, at least Ramsey will be able to throw it hard - which is the most important thing, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yomar Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Personally I'd take accuracy over arm strength, the SuperBowl has seen a parade of QBs whose greatest asset is their accuracy, not their arm strength in the last few years. Both of course are important, but Warner, Brady, Brad Johnson, Rich Gannon have me thinking accuracy is where its at. Of course Kerry Collins, Trent Dilfer and Steve McNair all made the big game with less than pinpoint precision, so take it for what its worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baralufficus Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Hey , I guess i was wrong ....I can still post on that site .....check out my latest thread i started over there .....lol] HTTR!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted March 21, 2003 Author Share Posted March 21, 2003 Flow, Well it's been a tough couple weeks for Jets fans so you'll have to excuse a lack of humor when I'm posting on the team's board that just raided our roster. I think I'm starting to like this guy. However, I did find your last post pretty amusing. You're free to doubt Chad as a QB, but it's certainly amusing to watch you reach. Grasp away. You're essentially claiming that the Raiders stumbled upon a road map to completely neutralize Chad, while the Fins and Belichick's Pats (2x each), and all other teams were completely oblivious to this magical pixie dust. And Moss, in the traditional 3rd year breakout, Chrebet, Conway, an early WR draft pick, a strong running game, and Chad's natural development are essential non-factors. That's quite a prognostication - I'd hate to hear what you think of the future of some of the rest of the NFL's rising stars. Nah, I'm not JUST claiming that the Raiders "stumbled" upon the way to defend Chad, I'm suggesting that there are 30 other professional defensive coordinators -- who all own videotape machines and advanced degrees in controlled mayhem -- who will TAKE said roadmap, not to mention a season's worth of game films, and improve upon it, and tailor it to fit their own personnel, and that they WILL proceed to lob their nefarious creations in young Mr. Pennington's general direction, and that we as fans of this exceedingly cool game will thereby see if the Raiders did in fact "stumble" upon something that said young Mr. Pennington finds problematic. And never let it be said there's no place for run-on sentences. I'm also suggesting that many young quarterbacks, in their first year as starters -- before said NFL Defensive Deviants In Headphones develop "A Book" on them -- find some rather dramatic success ... then fall dramatically back to Earth when said Book circulates and becomes dog-earred. We've had our share in DC. So have you. So has every other NFL team. It happens, man, more often than not. It could well happen to you, and I'm not with you in apparently deciding that the season just ended is enough evidence to assume Chad is the rare bird you seem to feel he is about to become. You stand firm behind your guy, and that's admirable (unless you're in Philly of SF or course, in which case it may be something else entirely. Sorry – bad Om. Very bad Om) But I also know that somewhere in the back of your mind there's more than a little doubt. And if there isn't, there probably oughta be, because you sound like a smart guy. If you're truly as confident in Chad as you're sounding on this thread ... power to ya, and I hope you're right. I happen to think the Jets are way overdue to climb the mountain again and this guy may yet turn out to be The One. But I'd not bet the mortgage. It's funny how Chad's proven success casts doubt on next year, but Ramsey's incomplete grade means he'll succeed. Since your QB ranks close to last in completion % and near the bottom in INT %- I'd say it's safe to say concerns surrounding Ramsey are slightly better founded than those surrounding the QB that led the NFL in accuracy and rating in just his first year starting. Please don't straw man me, Flow. We were talking about Chad, not Patrick. And I know that you know I've not said anything about Patrick other than that he has a stronger arm than your guy. Are we going to argue that? Read back, if you're so inclined, and you'll see I've gone so far as to intimate doubts about my own guy's development. I've not even hinted that he's quite the wunderkind you seem to be arguing Penny is. Feel free to knock Ramsey's completion percentage if you wish, but it won't make Chad Pennington's learning curve any steeper, his ascension in the league any quicker ... or either his arm or your argument any stronger. If all else fails, at least Ramsey will be able to throw it hard - which is the most important thing, right? "Grasping," to use your terminology ... but clever nonetheless. A qualified touche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowtrain Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Well nobody will know for sure if Chad is the real deal until next season - but I can tell you this: Jets fans have suffered for years watching our team find new and excruciating methods of breaking our collective hearts. The trauma is so extreme that most fans had adopted the "Same 'Ol Jets" sinking feeling upon any sniff of adversity. I've been to 48 consecutive home games and witnessed past tragedies like the Marino fake spike and countless others too painful to list. But Chad's improbable orchestration of a 7-2 division winning finish and his emergence as our franchise QB has literally done the impossible. It has lifted the dark "Same 'Ol" cloud from our franchise. It's given us all a solid footing for hope that the Jets will finally reach the elusive ring. In a sport where 31 of 32 teams end their season in disappointment - what else does a fan have but hope? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 Further evidence of overpaying: surprisingly, we learned today that the contract Coles received was actually higher than his initial asking price from the Jets - has it ever happened in the history of contract negotiations that a player gets over and above ask? Why is it surprising? Did you honestly expect Bradway to suggest some kind of failure on his part or not have a little dig which on further inspection amounts to little. Of course, it happens. When Agents lay out parameters of contracts before the beginning of free agency they are trying to show what their RFA player is worth against the tender offer to the one club they can negotiate with. Why pitch too high then? Get the Club to set the ball park figure and then try to negotiate them up / threaten to sign the tender and play out the year till UFA. Its a typical RFA scenario. What Bradway is doing is not comparing like with like? I am not sure of my Jets history but did they not sign C Martin a RFA away from the Pats. It would not surprise me if the Pats could have said the same thing after the event Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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