Posse81 Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Originally posted by rellim Guys like you want to talk about how great Davis is and use his stats as verification, but then you want to say how bad his line has been. He's had very good run blocking lines over the past few years, but he doesn't have the talent or physical ability to take us anywhere. I'm not exactly sure what you mean "to take us anywhere". Besides one year of Brad Johnson, SD has never had a competent QB to compliment the running game. He can't do much more when the talent around him is lacking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 12 backs I'd rather have 1. LD Tomlinson 2. Priest Holmes 3. Marshall Faulk 4. Deuce McCallister 5. Ricky Williams 6. Clinton Portis 7. Charlie Garner 8. Garrison Hearst 9. Tiki Barber 10. Corey Dilon 11. Ahman Green 12. Anthony Thomas I'd say that puts him around 13th in the league in my book. Add to that the fact that he's a poor fit for the offense and is on the decline (not dead mind you) and I can see getting rid of him. -DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty dread Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Originally posted by DrunkenBoxer 12 backs I'd rather have 1. LD Tomlinson 2. Priest Holmes 3. Marshall Faulk 4. Deuce McCallister 5. Ricky Williams 6. Clinton Portis 7. Charlie Garner 8. Garrison Hearst 9. Tiki Barber 10. Corey Dilon 11. Ahman Green 12. Anthony Thomas I'd say that puts him around 13th in the league in my book. Add to that the fact that he's a poor fit for the offense and is on the decline (not dead mind you) and I can see getting rid of him. -DB I agree with most of them, I wouldn't put Barber up that high though. As for a-train, I see him as a Davis clone. He's had a bad season this year, has suffered behind a bad line, injuries and bad QB's (sounds familiar). I'd still like to see the other 8 to 13 other backs that are better like someone said previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Murphaaay Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Originally posted by Larry I think relim's got a point, here! I think we should cut every player on the team who hasn't won a Super Bowl. After all, that's the standard we should use for player selection, right? Any player who hasn't single-handedly carried his entire team to the championship (as opposed to simply single-handedly accounting for more than half of the team's wins for the last four years) isn't worth having, right? The only glimmer of light I see in this situation is that Philly's likely too cheap to pay him what he's worth. (And Jerrah thinks he's a good enough scout to find his own talent). I'm really tired of seeing players who used to be Skins on the evening highlight shows. Your sarcasim is corny. It's also out of context of what I've written. I basically said Westbrook has as many Superbowl rings as Davis. If you really believe Davis has single-handedly carried the offense for four years your a moron in the true sense of the word. Brad Johnson carried or at least was responsible for the emergences of Westbrook (who had his best season), Albert O'Connell and Stephen Davis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 well, obviously I don't agree that there are more that are better.... But the really telling thing is that the next ten backs I would consider an even trade for davis. These guys Like Shaun Alexander, Curtis Martin, Edge (obviously goes in the other list when healthy) Troy Hambrick, Trung Candidate, etc. That list goes up to around 20 or 25. I think Davias might be injured more than he's letting on this year. His cutback ability is not what it once was and it has reduced him to a lumbering lummox on occasion this year. -DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Murphaaay Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 My List of RB's I'd Take Over Stephen Davis Marshall Faulk Corey Dillon Ahman Green Priest Holmes Duece McAllister Ricky Williams Edgerrin James LaDanlian Tomlinson Clinton Portis Curtis Martin Charlie Garner Tiki Barber Anthony Thomas Kevin Barlow Garrison Hearst Travis Henry Fred Taylor Eddie George Shaun Alexander Michael Bennett Jamal Lewis Duece Staley I'd take any one of these guys over Davis. They all can do a lot of things better than Davis and have more talent and skill also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty dread Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Davis' numbers are very comparable and even better than alot of those guys since '99. Of course I'd take alot of those younger guys too. I'm not saying Davis is the best back, I'm simply saying I can't understand how some people are so quick to toss aside what he's accomplished, and won't even acknowledge what he's done in his time here. And another thing, alot of those guys fumble alot more than Davis, which seems to be the huge knock on him around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posse81 Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Originally posted by rellim My List of RB's I'd Take Over Stephen Davis Marshall Faulk Corey Dillon Ahman Green Priest Holmes Duece McAllister Ricky Williams Edgerrin James LaDanlian Tomlinson Clinton Portis Curtis Martin Charlie Garner Tiki Barber Anthony Thomas Kevin Barlow Garrison Hearst Travis Henry Fred Taylor Eddie George Shaun Alexander Michael Bennett Jamal Lewis Duece Staley I'd take any one of these guys over Davis. They all can do a lot of things better than Davis and have more talent and skill also. Michael Bennett? Duece Staley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignatius J. Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 I never really had a problem with his fumbles. One thing every back on these lists has is big play ability. To me that has always been the single biggest knock on SD. Since 1999 he has not made his own touchdowns. He gets to pound (and I use that word VERY loosely) the ball in from the one yard line. In 1999 he was a great back. In 2000 he had an uncanny ability to turn a 3 yard gain into a six yard gain. In 2001 he had an uncanny ability to turn a 3 yard gain into a six yard gain. In 2002 he has taken exactly what the line has given him and sometimes less. I don't bash the guy, because he has been a lot of fun to watch. I like him and wish him well. I just think that he's not the back he once was, and if we want to move forward as a franchise we need to look elsewhere. If he wants to he can follow DG's lead and simply accept a backup role and stay with the team. I don't think he's going to do that though. His choice. -DB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty dread Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 "In 2002 he has taken exactly what the line has given him and sometimes less." What has the line given him this year? Take any back around the league, give him a line with guys like Moore, Loverne and Brown in the middle, and I promise you they would struggle as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Originally posted by DrunkenBoxer 12 backs I'd rather have 1. LD Tomlinson 2. Priest Holmes 3. Marshall Faulk 4. Deuce McCallister 5. Ricky Williams 6. Clinton Portis 7. Charlie Garner 8. Garrison Hearst 9. Tiki Barber 10. Corey Dilon 11. Ahman Green 12. Anthony Thomas I'd say that puts him around 13th in the league in my book. Add to that the fact that he's a poor fit for the offense and is on the decline (not dead mind you) and I can see getting rid of him. -DB I would agree with Tomlinson, Holmes, Faulk, Deuce, Ricky and Dillon. The rest I disagree. What exactly has Portis proven that Stephen hasn't already accomplished and done better? Garner has never been a great back, and his best season hasn't even been better than Stephen's worse as a starter. Hearst is just damn lucky he's in a explosive offense. Ahman Green fumbles even more than Stephen, and Anthony THomas is slower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Originally posted by rellim Your sarcasim is corny. It's also out of context of what I've written. I basically said Westbrook has as many Superbowl rings as Davis. If you really believe Davis has single-handedly carried the offense for four years your a moron in the true sense of the word. Brad Johnson carried or at least was responsible for the emergences of Westbrook (who had his best season), Albert O'Connell and Stephen Davis. You must have the record for how many times you can make post and be wrong every single time. Brad Johnson had an awesome first half of '99 season, yet after that, he sucked and the stats of Westbrook and Connell took a dip as well. Guess who's stats barely faltered, why your favorite redskin Stephen Davis. Stephen was the reason we still made the playoffs and didn't choke in the second half of the season. If Brad was more of a factor in the success of that season, how come he didn't get us by the Bucs. Maybe it was because the workhorse RB was banged up from taking so many carries over the weeks. Brad, Westbrook, and Connell had bad games that day because the Bucs didn't respect the running game, much like the way teams have treated us in all our losses this season. They haven't respected the running game this season because they know Spurrier abandons the run even if it only slightly falters. Unless you are down by double digits early, which we rarely have this season, they is NO REASON whatsoever that a coach should call so many pass plays. Factor in that in the rare opportunity Spurrier does call a run, we have practice squad material guards who allow lineman to meet Davis as soon as he gets the hand-off. I guess it's Davis' fault that Sulfsted whiffed on TWO BLOCKS on that 4th and 1 aganist Dallas. Here's a clue, go to the library and check out "Football for Dummies" and figure out how the game works. There is not one single back in this league, no matter how much better you think they are compared to Davis, that would be more effective playing behind this line. NONE!! I can only recall two backs that have been successful under similar circumstances, and they are Walter Payton and Barry Sanders. And if those two legends are your measuring stick, than you might as well call every back in this league a bum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty dread Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Don't forget Davis' performance in the playoffs against the Lions, no way we win that without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thito_da_skins_fan Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Originally posted by rellimGuys like you want to talk about how great Davis is and use his stats as verification, but then you want to say how bad his line has been. He's had very good run blocking lines over the past few years, but he doesn't have the talent or physical ability to take us anywhere. GOOD RUN BLOCKING OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS?! DOES THAT INCLUDE THIS YEAR?! c'mon man, wake the fuk up... his run blocking has sucked... and i guess stats mean d!ck???? rushing for over 1,300 yards (1,400 yards twice) 3 straight seasons means nothing? averaging over 4.0 yards per carry during a 7-year career means nothing also i guess? and where is he taking us? the superbowl? i think someone else touched on this, but it's a *team* game... there's 10 other players on offense who have to do their part also... wake up man... Originally posted by rellimStephen Davis does none of that. And to boot, he has the nerve to criticize the coach and why he's not getting enough carries. It's funny how critical he is of coaching, when he is not nearly, hell he never ever chastizes himself publicly about his fumbles that have lost us games and potential playoff opportunities. when has SD criticized anyone? he RARELY speaks out and when he does, it's so mild that i wouldn't even begin to think he's criticizing anyone... players throw blame all the time and SD definitely isn't one of them... in fact, i can remember after a few games, especially Dallas in 2001 and San Francisco in 2002, where Davis took the blame himself for those losses... i think sometimes you like to talk just to talk, without even presenting facts... get over it man, he'll be gone next year, and you'll get your wish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljer Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 when has SD criticized anyone? he RARELY speaks out and when he does, it's so mild that i wouldn't even begin to think he's criticizing anyone... players throw blame all the time and SD definitely isn't one of them... in fact, i can remember after a few games, especially Dallas in 2001 and San Francisco in 2002, where Davis took the blame himself for those losses... i think sometimes you like to talk just to talk, without even presenting facts... get over it man, he'll be gone next year, and you'll get your wish... TH, I'm STILL waiting for someone to step up to the plate and tell me what exactly Davis said that's got these bashers so pi**ed off. I'm waiting......................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thito_da_skins_fan Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 Originally posted by ljer I'm waiting......................... why wait? grab a snickers... and make sure you have plenty of water and food... maybe some porn and video games too... i am sure dust and cobwebs will accumulate eventually... basically, it's never gonna happen... why? cuz SD has NEVER criticized anyone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljer Posted December 6, 2002 Share Posted December 6, 2002 basically, it's never gonna happen... why? cuz SD has NEVER criticized anyone... Exactly......... Amazing how these bashers will try to grasp for any straw when they are trying to make an argument. Looks like I'd better grab a BIG bag of Snickers :laugh: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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