Professor_Nutter_Butter

Crowder got some money on the game

I'm convinced this team thrashed Howell's confidence. 

Is Hurts the new Goff (pre-Lions)?

I've had the mindset all season that Howell should likely be given another season just to make sure. I think I'm now OK with QB or no QB in the first. 

Please remind me if there was this much uproar about McLaurin's offsides last season as there appears to be for Toney's offsides. If not, this just because KC is the darling of the league?

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't like trading down for the sake of trading down and passing up on blue chip talent. But if we get some crazy offer and there are no legit blue chippers at our spot then sure. But at the 4th overall pick, there will definitely be some elite talent we'd be passing up on.

 

Quality > quantity. We need legit game breaking star power talent.

No disagreements. I just think Harris and Co. will go in with the mindset that there are several holes to fill.

12 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Are both top two QBs already gone? Also would need to gauge the potential trade up market. I love Harrison but if we can pull off a reverse RG3 and load up the new regime with a bunch of assets to rebuild with I'd have to think about it.

If both QBs are gone and they feel they can get another player they want a little later, I 100% bet they'll trade down and stockpile picks. 

1 hour ago, zCommander said:

It is quite interesting that the idea here is that what if we don't take a QB in 2024, say at the #3 or #4 spot then we won't have a chance like this again in 2025. This type of thinking is that somehow Howell will not be good enough to get us into the playoffs next year but will have a 8-9 season and therefore not be able to pick higher in 2025.

 

But we already know pretty much what Howell has been able to do with our current OL. So building the OL and other players around him will make this team a deep playoff team. Why would I care who the top QB is in 2025 at that point? 

 

If you stand back and look at all the games that we have lost so far this year, how many we could have won if had a legit or even a semi-legit D? Is a QB allowed to have a bad day at the office, of course he does. You are not going to win them all. Just like last year when the Eagles were unbeaten and we beat them. It happens to even the best of the best. Hell we almost beat them twice this year but apparently couldn't do so but still went toe to toe with them but ironically we lose twice to the lowly Giants (something is so weird about this NY team like a hex or something lol).

 

My point, the idea of let's run this guy out of town because he has already been here 2 years instead of let's build something so this guy can possibly be the future for the next 10 years instead. I like to set long term goals as in the past these short term goals haven't worked for the last 25+ years and if a GM is smart he will see that as well. The plus on this is that if Howell in year 4 falters all you have to do is get a vet (like the Rams) and win it all since you will already have a great supporting cast in place. 

My God, I'm shocked I agree with you. Spot on, buddy. Or almost. 

1 minute ago, Conn said:

Sam Bradford was a great prospect who had injury issues. I can also name random players that came out each year, I don’t think being able to name Sam Bradford (who was hyped ahead of time and didn’t just emerge) proves your point that every single year has a blue chip QB worth taking who emerges. 
 

And you still haven’t addressed that even IF you were correct, we’re rarely drafting high enough to take advantage of it any given year. That’s why if you’re at 3rd overall, you have to at least consider it. 

The only injury Bradford had in college -- at least reported that I could find -- was his shoulder in 2009. I list Bradford because it's kinda relevant considering we're in a similar situation (trash team with a high pick) and there's talk of O-lineman or QB.

And ok, sure, consider a new QB. But really how much good is he going to be if he's on his ass within like two seconds most times he drops back to pass? 

18 minutes ago, Conn said:

He laid out all the reasons why already, and you just ignored them so idk why I’m posting, but you’re just wrong about that. There is not always a worthy blue chip QB prospect (nevermind whether we’d be high enough to draft them anyways). 

 

And no, Clausen was a 2nd round pick. So he obviously doesn’t fit the criteria as an example of how there’s always a potential blue chip riser QB prospect in every class. 

Ok, my bad. To meet your criteria of first-rounder: Sam Bradford. A "can't miss" prospect picked one overall and ended up with 18 touchdowns and 15 interceptions over 16 games in his first year. 

Point being is it's all just a gamble.

2 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

If you're talking QB, that's not true. The 2010, 2013, 2014, 2019 QB classes last decade were notoriously awful, and 2015 and 2016 were both exceptionally shallow. Some years the QB classes are good: 2012, 2017, 2018, 2020, 2021, 2023, 2024, sometimes they are not, like the years I previously mentioned and '22, Howell's classes. Sometimes they get the classes wrong ('18 ended up mostly a washout, with 1 league average guy in Baker, 2 studs in Allen and Lamar, and 2 wash outs in Darnold and Rosen, '21 is following a similar path with all of them busting except for Lawrence whose been disappointing). When you consider that, you need to realize that QB classes matter, the bad ones are nearly always as bad or worse than advertised, and the good ones are only sometimes as good as advertised (1983, and 2004 deliver, 2017 mostly delivered, but other famous classes like 1999, 2006, 2018 and 2021 didn't, and '12 was very hit and miss). 

 

You aren't always going to have a great QB class, most of them either suck outright, or prove to be worse than expected. That, btw, was why I was so irate when we passed on QB in 2020, and 2021, we didn't have one, and we acted like we were fine, Burrow, Tua, Herbert, Lawrence, and the busts of '21 went elsewhere, in '23 it looks like 2 of 3 were hits as well, but we sat tight again. Are we going to this year? I don't know, I will say that after the first two I don't feel super confident in the position, Daniels frightens me, but if we go away from QB, we need to have a plan for the '25 QB class in place if Howell busts next fall and part of that plan should be trading down/out with picks to add ammo to trade up with in '25. It's negligence to not do so if we eschew QB this offseason. 

Yes, before you even finished the question. 

Will all due respect, there will Always be a hyped QB up-and-comer. If I remember correctly, wasn't Jimmy Clausen super hyped up leading to the draft as this great QB? Who did Washington end up going with in 2010 at No. 4? Trent Williams. You get guys who you think will make your team better. That doesn't always mean QB. Believe me, this team definitely needs to focus on the O-line.

Howell 2024. Another QB in 2025 if needed.

EDIT: I'm an idiot for misremembering Jimmy freaking Clausen.

3 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

It literally has to matter. There are financial implications tied directly to where someone is drafted. 

Does it, though? Do you really need five years to know if a player is good? The Bears are in hell right now trying to decide if Justin Fields is worth a big contract (he's not).

6 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

I wouldn't bet my job on a one year audition for Sam Howell if I were the new GM.  If the new GM wants to do that, so be it.  But if he does that, Sam fails, and Drake Maye/Jayden Daniels/JJ McCarthy go on to be stars, then they're getting fired soon after and we're going through this again in four years.

I can promise you that in 2025 there will be the next "can't miss" prospect to fixate on. There always is.

3 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Jordan Love was a 1st round pick.  They generally get more rope.  This year is the audition for Howell to prove he is worth building around.  There's still 4 games left but it ain't looking good.  The new GM should not be tied down to developing Howell.

The round someone was picked shouldn't matter. I still think Howell has shown promise several times this year.

The recent success of Jordan Love makes me hopeful that you can't give up on Howell just yet.

5 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

But it’ll be Semien though.

I swear to God if they lose to Trevor Semien.

14 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Tommy Devito beat us.....why cant Boyle? 

Boyle is the equivalent of a high school quarterback.

13 minutes ago, BleedBNG said:

They don't need Rodgers

I swear to God if Tim Boyle beats them. 

9 hours ago, method man said:

I doubt it. Think he is going to retire

Very possible, but this would be his only other option (something on defense) if he wanted to continue coaching. 

2 hours ago, skinny21 said:

I think the issue is more in terms of a negative effect on our draft placement.  But I’ll push back a tiny bit too, Ron can “win” by showing out as a DC.  As a HC though, I think you’re 100% right.

I kind of wonder if he knows his time as an HC is coming to an end, so he's auditioning for future gigs as a DC.

How pissed will everyone be if for whatever reason the defense doesn't suck now that Rivera's taking over?

12 minutes ago, Daniel.redskins said:

Howell will get blamed for this.  He didn't play great, but he is so far from the biggest problem on this team.  

This team needs to be rebuilt starting with the oline and linebackers, or else it's the same **** we've seen the last 20 years.  

 

It's time to take the best tackle in the draft.  

Just think how much of an improvement the line would look if the team still had Trent Williams. 

Just now, kingdaddy said:

I think you might be right..... Howell looks OK but is he as good a prospect as one of the top guys coming out? We also could trade with another team and get a good stash of picks if someone else wants to jump up and grab a QB. Tough call potentially for the new GM.

I still think you run it back with Howell one more year and try to build around him. If he doesn't get over the hump, then you go all in on the next draft at QB. Sam's problem sometimes -- at least it seems to me -- is he tries to do too much. Likely because the team's defense could lose to a top high school team.

As a RedFootballManders fan.

Lions keeping their tradition intact of playing like garbage on Thanksgiving.