Special K

Such an informative post. Maybe the most important thing on there is that the refugee doesn't pick where they end up. That further reduces the odds of a terrorist being able to use the refugee program to get into America. I would bet 75% or more of the population does not know that.

I'd bet (with a HIGH level of confidence) that about 99% of the American population doesn't know this.  I mean, I had a discussion with several family members at dinner tonight, all with a Master's level of education or higher, and none of them hadn't the slightest clue what the refugee application process consisted of until I explained to them the basic outline and highlights...

I don't think it's too much to ask to realize that certain areas of the world, at certain times, are going through unique circumstances that require unique considerations.

 

I don't think having a discussion about admitting refugees from Syria, at a time when the area is going through what it is and is what it is, means you blanket cannot admit people form anywhere at any other time. It's just nonsense to follow that to such a conclusion. It's intentionally lacking context/nuance, and intentionally putting all decision making revolving the general idea of admitting people into a vacuum when doing so is completely unnecessary. The only point of doing all that is to squash the idea that it's something to discuss to begin with.

I think we realize certain areas of the world ARE breeding grounds.  That's a no duh.  A country can be cognizant of the political landscape of other regions and increase vigilance without passing additional fear-based laws that don't do anything they're purported to do by our politicians.

And like I said, the problem is that this whole subject hasn't been a discussion, it's propaganda vs. facts.

Yes I do realize that. You think I don't? What does that have to do with what I said?

 

I haven't really posed my rationale anywhere. You're just painting me into that corner because I've challenged a few people on their ideals; namely that you can only be xenophobic to have an issue with admitting refugees and that only the GOP and Christians are thinking like this.

 

I have as big of a problem with the people thinking there's no discussing to have here (majority of the people posting on ES about it) as i do with the idiots that think we should only let in Christians, or should close Mosques, or only spy on Muslims, or only let them in if they'll agree to be trained and sent back to fight ISIS.

 

Edit: I'm editing a bit because I realized I completely misread your last question.

As for your last question: I don't know, maybe we could look at the people that inhabit the area? You think that because I think Syria is a breeding ground of terrorism we now have to go through every country and consider labeling them as such?

 

You think I'm out on a limb saying Syria is a breeding ground for terrorism? Have you been paying attention the last 7 years?

Wasn't sure if you knew that.  I figured if you did know, you would just assume it's a rhetorical question and move on.

I never said you were going out on a limb with Syria.  Of course Syria is a breeding ground for terrorism.  So are a lot of countries.  I was just pointing out the faulty logic in your response to Hersh's question.

As far as the whole having a big problem with people who aren't "discussing" the issue, the problem there is that this is not anywhere close to an honest discussion:  it's facts on one side versus false, crazy **** that goes against everything America stands for on the other side.

Except that would ignore the fact that not every corner of the world is a breeding ground for terrorism.

 

---

The votes for the bill on refugees in the house

 

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/114-2015/h643

You do realize that people from ALL OVER the world have pledged allegiance to ISIS and even traveled to Syria to fight with them?

Additionally, refugees from countries OUTSIDE the Middle East have been admitted to the United States and been charged with aiding ISIS.

Further, most of the terrorists who carried out the Paris attacks were French or Belgian citizens  Based on your rationale, Belgium and France could be considered "breeding grounds for terrorism" and we should not admit French or Belgians immigrants into this country.

So, how do you propose legally establishing which country is a "breeding ground for terrorism" and which is not?

And of course, the President and his supporters are WRONG that ISIS isn't using Syrian refugee crisis to get terrorists into countries:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/attackers-used-refugee-crisis-slip-france-pm-200055808.html

 

The only opposition I've heard to slowing down and properly vetting these refugees is that the US is 'racist' and 'islamophobic',

 

This is an extremely weak argument:  European borders and border policies are very different from the US policy.

Further, It takes 1-2 years for refugees to go through the vetting process as is.  How much slower should the process be made to ensure refugees are "more thoroughly vetted?"  What additional measures do you want to put into place to "ensure" America is not infiltrated by ISIS operatives posing as Syrian refugees?  I have yet to hear reasonable answers to these questions.  Based on the absence of reasonable answers, really, the only conclusion one can make is that this opposition is rooted in xenophobia.  

My Facebook feed is almost unbearable right now.  I'm ashamed this country is even having such a heated debate about this.  Not only is accepting refugees morally right, but the rhetoric used in the argument to keep refugees out has no basis in FACT.  The ignorance regarding the refugee process and the number of people buying into baseless bull**** is scary.

How are they not properly vetted? We've accepted over 2,000 Syrian refugees over the last 3 years. We accepted 70,000 refugees just last year. No Excuses posted a chart showing the amount of arrests of refugees for domestic terror since 9/11. Spoiler: ZERO have been arrested.

Actually, that graph is incorrect.  There have been refugees who've come to the US and been charged with terrorism-related activities.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3322649/The-enemy-Nearly-SEVENTY-arrested-America-ISIS-plots-include-refugees-given-safe-haven-turned-terror.html

If they want to be correct, the graph should be labeled "Syrian refugees"

That doesn't change my stance on the refugees: we should accept them.  I just get annoyed when I see stats manipulated like that.  

Between these (looking more and more true) accusations against Bill Cosby as a sexual predator and Lee Harper's "sequel" to To Kill A Mockingbird, I'm starting to come to the realization that my entire freaking childhood was a fraud.

 

willful ignorance and dishonesty can certainly be problematic K, as can groupthink.

You're right, "groupthink" can be dangerous.  

However, I certainly wouldn't classify a plethora of scientific data and published studies "groupthink," unless you're just looking for excuses to disregard scientific data.

To me it's like looking at published studies about the efficacy of vaccines, or antibiotics or a million other modern medical breakthroughs this past century and disregarding them as "groupthink."

TWA - I don't deny that there are natural fluctuations in weather patterns that cause periods of heating and cooling in the Earth's atmosphere.  However, to lump all recent climate data into that category, particularly with the overwhelming amount of scientists and climate experts saying and publishing studies otherwise is to be either willfully ignorant or willfully dishonest.    

Since we are talking weather where we live...

Northern VA has enjoyed an unusually cool summer, only a handful of days over 90 so far. Precipitation seems about normal. I recall last summer being about the same and of course last winter was probably one of the coldest on average. I quite enjoy the weather that we've been having so I enjoy it.

I'm not denying global warming but I'm saying that local examples are not a way to prove global warming exists.

I would agree since both sides use local data to "pimp" their causes.

I probably didn't articulate it very well since my observations were just about this current season, but in describing NorCal conditions, these examples really are part of an extended weather pattern/drought conditions we've been experiencing at a steady rate over the past several years.  Each year gets worse and this past season has been the worst, by far, which was why I included all the examples.

I live in Lake Tahoe. We've gotten pretty much no snow the last 3 winters and this summer have had more cloudy rainy days than sunny. A summer like this is unheard of. It feels like the East coast up here, humid and hot during the day, then the clouds roll in during the afternoon for a storm in the evening. Climate Change is real. Want to fix it, stop voting all of these idiots into the senate and house. Don't cast a single ballot for any Republican or Democratic candidate. They have all had many chances and have failed us. Many times.

Yeah, I live a few hours north of you, near Mt. Shasta, and in the 30 years my family has lived here I've never seen conditions this bad.  

Just a few examples:

-  This past winter Mt. Shasta ski resort opened for maybe 2 weeks, and even at that, only 1 chair lift was open.  The other ski resort I grew up skiing at, Mt. Ashland (about 40 min. north, just across the Oregon border), wasn't able to open at all.  

-  I've never seen Mt. Shasta's snowcap so small during the summer months.  

-  As of yesterday, we currently have 26 wildfires in Siskiyou County alone.

-  With the water levels in lakes and flow in rivers and creeks so low (thereby creating many more areas than usual of stagnant water), the health department is receiving an unprecedented number of cases of water-borne illnesses.

And the list goes on and on and on...  it's pretty scary.  

Even scarier, however, is the number of people who continue to deny the change that is going on right in front of our eyes.  This shouldn't be a partisan issue.  But unfortunately (like everything else that involves greed and power) it has become one, with both sides engaging in petty bickering, absurd rhetoric and taking cheap shots at each other from the most visible political stage in Washington to this very thread.  It's pathetic.  

I'm watching Duck Dynasty now.

Good, clean, redneck fun...reminds me a bit of my childhood. Who cares if it's staged!?!

The Wire was my favorite show of all time, incredible.

As for your list, I'd pick House of Cards over Mad Men. I'm not into stuff like Walking Dead.

Also, Bang's suggestion about The Americans is a good one, love that show.

Finally, Jumbo might be on to something. There's huge potential for a massive cat fight as Elisabeth Hasselbeck makes her exit from being kicked off by Walters et al

Other than Rodman's incredibly low level of intelligence and awareness, i think the only otyher thing I got out of that interview is that playing "guess what" as a drinking game whenever he talks is bound to get everybody plastered.

Guess what.. it was like guess what, every other word.

~bang

I felt like I was plastered trying to decipher WTF was coming out of his mouth that interview.

Watched the Rodman interview and cringed @ the morbid stupidity on display.

I can't even believe we're giving this crap press coverage and granting that jackass interviews. Stick to cross-dressing Rodman, you're much more proficient at that art than you are diplomacy. What a damn joke.

Don't know if anyone here is into wrestling, but my husband's wrestling partner here at the OTC hit the craziest takedown at the Greco Jr. World Championships this week in Romania. Here's the link. It's hilarious. He went on to win the match and took 3rd place in the tourney.

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/340977/Mind-bottling-takedown-at-Greco-Jr-World-Championship/

That was a bull**** decision as far as I'm concerned.

Haha, I have seen Tito like that in about a decade. Nice to have him back for tonight, that was fun!

Details of the Rogers incident are horrible.

Yeah, that's terrible. He needs to be put away for a long time for this.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/6/30/2252777/brett-rogers-charged-with-3rd-degree-assault-mma-news-strikeforce

this dude is a piece of ****

full criminal complaint: http://services.co.dakota.mn.us/complaintSearch/complaint.aspx?ID=11206

Too bad Brett had to earn his first ever submission...on his wife.

Rick Story's wrestling was obviously not on, that fight was a big momentum killer for a fast-rising contender.

Talked to Ricky the other night, and this is exactly what he admitted. He didn't make excuses, but basically said he hasn't trained wrestling in over 3 months. He wasn't worried about his wrestling against Alves and trained almost solely for standup against Alves in the lead-up to the fight...which my husband noticed during the Alves fight when he yelled "Ricky's wrestling's gone to ****!" lol. With Marquardt, he trained for a taller striker because he knew his base wrestling was way better than Marquardt's. Then he got a wrestler at the last second. Again, not an excuse, just a tough situation and Brennenman out-wrestled him and got the win.

Good news, I think my husband convinced him to come out to the OTC to beef up his wrestling before his next fight, so that will be good.

Hopefully his next opponent doesn't OD on testosterone for a completely bogus medical condition before the next fight.

Holy ****, I think Kongo got concussed like, 3 times

I'm actually pretty stoked about this next fight.

damn Story's momentum is ending tonight

Yep.

He needs new coaches. I hate the advice they give him and I don't think they have his best interests at heart..that's my personal opinion. Oh well, he's a big boy and took this fight, but I don't think it was a good idea and I think his coaches should have advised him against it.

Damn, Ricky's completely gassed.

Whelp, that's all she wrote.

He doesn't have that energy factor I'm used to seeing in him.

Yeah, he's already gassing.

It's becoming clear he shouldn't have taken this fight, at least IMO. I think he hasn't recovered from the Alves fight, although when he went to dinner with my husband last week, he said he was feeling good. Who knows, but he looks dull to me. He's got to get a submission here.

Are you ****ing kidding me with that standup!?!?!