pico926

1 minute ago, FrFan said:

Jay was a third round pick

With a rocket arm

11 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

I would be completely floored if that were to happen. HE has by far the weakest arm of the top 3. Like it isnt close. 

Jay Schroeder had a rocket arm. Daniels can make all the throws and displayed that at LSU. It's all that matters. 

1 hour ago, skinsfan66 said:

McCarthy, needs to have a little more love than he is getting, he is really good in the clutch 3rd downs.

I've got McCarthy as #3 behind Williams and Daniels. He will move up the draft boards post combines/pro day while Maye will move down. Been my prediction for a good bit. 

1 hour ago, Ghost of said:

Only a 5 star QB recruited by Ohio State, who won a state title in Illinois, a national HS title with IMG, named Florida Player of the Year (no small feat for anyone to be named player of the year in that state), who went on to lose one game as a starter in college, win a national title, all while nursing a bum ankle (it's a major reason they ran the ball the second half vs Penn State) the last several games of the season and making every single pass or play that he had to make while doing it. And has no physical deficiencies in his toolkit, although he'll need to get to 215-220 before too long.

 

Yes, I get that they ran a lot but you are also supposed to be looking at mental makeup. He isn't some game manager who won a starting job so the previous comparison to Stetson Bennett is insulting.

 

Couldn't agree more with your assessment. The guy is a winner and in this "what have you done lately" business of the NFL McCarthy gets a shining gold star! I expect him to be drafted in the top 10-13 spots with a strong possibility of cracking top 10.

1 minute ago, RWJ said:

What is the hardest position to play on the offensive line?

 

 

Other than quarterback, the hardest position to play is Left Tackle. Others have covered it, but if you notice a lot of good teams they have a stellar left tackle. They have to be quick and strong to block some of the best pass rushers in the NFL.

Ahhhh So this is why you see left tackles being drafted early and why top free agent left tackles land huge contracts. Very interesting insight. Thank you

2 minutes ago, Conn said:

Hate to break it to you (bc you seem to think it’s bad news) but Maye can just as easily run his system. Which tells me you don’t have a solid idea of what “his system” actually means at this point 

Maye ran the Air Raid system in 2023 and regressed vs 2022. Doesn't mean a hill of beans if he is losing to the likes of UVA and Clemson while running the vaunted Air Raid offense. He throws off his back foot, happy feet in pocket, inaccurate against ACC competition. Folks aren't making this stuff up and draft experts are already calling for him to slide in the draft. This is a "what have you done lately" business and I am weary on betting a #2 pick on a player who regressed YTY. 

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

This is kinda how I see it as well. I wouldn't say I can't stand him at 2, I'd still be happy we have a blue chip QB prospect, but I wouldn't LOVE it like I'd love Maye(and Williams obviously if the character stuff is cleared up).

I understand a respect yours and clskinsfan's position. I am an upside/high ceiling guy and just see more there with Daniels. Both prospects have +'s and -'s so no issues with your stance.

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

Yes

Ok second question. It seems like Daniels is completing similar passes throwing to FASTER receivers playing against higher caliber defensive backs, safeties, etc. Could one assume that Daniels arm strength is plenty good enough given this? Alabama defense is about closest you are going to see to NFL @ collegiate level BTW. 

Please let me know your thoughts. 

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

Standard? We have different standards for sure. Daniels isnt physically capable of making half of those throws at that velocity. 

So you are able to measure the velocity of those throws in the cut ups and are 100% sure that his velocity is higher than Daniels making similar throws (and he has made the same throws)? How are you able to do such a thing?

3 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I think the debate around Jayden and making tight window throws got pretty twisted. It’s not about whether he can/can’t.

 

 

The stats have been posted in this thread over and over. He can do it, and do it well. He just did not have to do it as often as some of the other guys due to being on a stacked team and having the ultimate eject-button w/ his wheels.

 

 

For me it seems much more a question of how much stock do you want to put in his sample size then whether he can do it not, cuz he absolutely can.

Heck, some metric sites have Jayden completing big-time throws at a higher rate then Maye, and he had a ton. Jayden just lacks attempts.

 

 

He just put up the best passer rating in college football history. Whenever he did choose to throw, the results were more often than not pretty great. It’s just a matter of whether he did it enough for a front office to reliably put confidence in the ability.

 

 

Goes back to my #1 fear w/ JD of buying flash vs consistency.

Appreciate the feedback. Makes sense to me and certainly understand hesitation if the sample size is small in the eyes of the evaluator. I guess I was getting stuck on the "he can't" and "he doesn't" when clearly he can and he did. 

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Why? I like Logan, and he does a decent job, but he's not a QB coach or OC any more than any other player who became an analyst later. 

 

Again, we can compare notes on your all-22 film within a day or two if that works for you. That should give us a better idea of where we see things the same or differently. 

We can however bias can and most likely will leak in. We do have a neutral party in Logan Paulsen who, most likely, has no bias clearly stating that he throws in tight windows with anticipation. This kind of trumps our exercise but happy to oblige. 

2 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

I like daniels but logan was telling everyone how great sam howells farts tasted pretty much all year. He definitely wasn't right about howell

Looking at film and stating that someone is throwing into tight windows and with anticipation is what the eye sees. Different from praising someone as the best thing since sliced bread. 

Just now, mistertim said:

 

  Oh please. You lean towards whoever you can find that agrees with you.

Well true. It is a bit of validation coming from the likes of Logan Paulsen though isn't it?

https://commanderswire.usatoday.com/2024/01/28/2024-nfl-draft-washington-commanders-logan-paulsen-drake-maye-jayden-daniels/

Logan likes Daniels over Maye for some of the same reasons others on this board have raised. Note that Logan, who does a solid job breaking down film, noted that Daniels made "tight window throws" and "throws with anticipation" against the likes of Alabama and Florida. Many on this board says he can't make these throws yet Logan specifically calls is out. I personally lean towards Logan's expert eye on this and will continue to call BS on folks stating that he can't or hasn't demonstrated the ability.

20 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Its not a highlight reel. Its cut ups of some really good, NFL caliber throws. If the read and throw is perfect but the WR doesn't catch it, that's not on the QB.

All vertical routes (9 and 8 routes), no tight window throws, not much processing going on. What makes these really good, NFL caliber throws. The circus throw to the receiver while being tackled is nice but that's about all that jumped out to me. Everything else looked pretty standard.

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Multiple incompletions in a highlight reel?? 🤣

1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

Maye is nowhere near Mahomes as an improviser or creater. All Im saying is hes a better pure athlete. But Mahomes isnt known for his raw athleticism anyway.

He is not a better pure athlete. Sorry. Mahomes could have went either way with NFL or MLB, has elite arm talent, deceptively strong, and very mobile. Please stop trying to comp Maye to Mahomes. 

1 minute ago, Hooper said:

Look at how the Lions are built. If they think McCarthy or whoever is up there with Daniels and Maye, they might trade back and work on building the line. You never know. 

I wouldn't be mad at that if the brass believes in him.

4 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

No worries! The basic lesson was beware of talking in absolutes about what QBs can't do just because they haven't done a lot of it. Dig more into it. 

 

It seems to be the reason nearly every analysts has JJ McCarthy going way higher than regular online folks

 

 

 

 

 

I really like McCarthy. Has a great toolkit and is proven winner. He will climb up the boards post pro day as we get closer to the draft. 

Just now, mistertim said:

 

No, I think you're not going to timestamp because you probably haven't even watched it. But I'm not lazy so I'll actually watch the whole thing at some point soon and provide timestamps for any tight window over the middle throws.

Oh I watched the whole thing bud. I don't give BS takes without info to back it up like others. Watch for yourself.

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

I don't think it's necessarily an assumption, but giving it a fair amount of weight when evaluating. I'd guess that for every guy who goes to the NFL and bucks the trend by being able to do things in the NFL that he wasn't asked to do in college, there's probably at least one guy who doesn't and still struggles with those things in the pro game. So it's going to be mostly up in the air whether the guy will be able to or not. Some teams will take that risk and lose, some will take it and win.

Here you go. Plenty of throws across the middle, tight window throws over the middle and on the edges, and dimes throwing on the run. Not giving any timestamps though. Find them yourself.

Just now, pico926 said:

Here you go. Plenty of throws across the middle, tight window throws over the middle and on the edges, throws with anticipation, and dimes throwing on the run. Not giving any timestamps though. Find them yourself.

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

Watch. His. Cutups. You can see what throws he's making consistently and which ones he's not. He's very rarely throwing into tight windows in the middle. You can also see how open the receivers are and whether he's going through multiple reads.

 

It's all right there.

Sorry I've seen cutups of him making throws into tight windows and throwing with anticipation. Sorry if that disagrees with your narrative. So sorry.

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

Jesus Christ on a hoverboard. Why are you having such a hard time understanding the point here so many times? Nobody is saying that he shouldn't throw to guys who are getting wide open.

 

The problem is that he currently is playing with superior talent and making throws in a way that he absolutely won't be able to do in the NFL. Even top WRs don't get that open and you have to be able to throw into tight windows and with anticipation if you want to succeed.

 

That doesn't necessarily mean he can't learn to do it. But it does mean that he doesn't currently show those NFL level traits or abilities. That's a big risk with a top 3 pick.

We disagree that he hasn't shown the ability to make tight window throws and throw with anticipation. Period. Why are you having such a hard time understanding?

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Its not. Hes a sideline thrower. And cant throw with anticipation.

 

Hes RG3 2.0 except older and hopefully not with the same ego or body fragility.

So he passed for 3800 yards and 40 TDs and in the TOUGHEST conference in college football by not throwing with anticipation, not fitting the ball into tight windows and not throwing over the middle? I call BS. Absolute BS.

3 hours ago, bearrock said:

 

I think "legitimate NFL starter" has a wide room for interpretation.  His other tweets seem to indicate that his opinion of Stroud is pretty low.  But yeah, bad is probably overstating on my part, but the lead up to last year's draft is full of negative tweets about Stroud, below being some samples.

 

 

 

 

Crackpot

1 minute ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

It's not that difficult . I work with actors who do weight traing constantly depending on the role. Daniels already put on weight from 22 to 23, it was reported in every LSU publication (U posted an article in this very thread)

 

But all this worrying about weight is silly IMO. I get it when its someone like Bryce Young, there's nothing you can do about his height. Put him on a meal plan/weight system, he'll be fine. Also for the people who are like "well but why couldn't he do it at LSU", well first of all he did and 2nd, I am sure everyone knows there is a difference between splitting your time with school and being able to focus on ball and training, etc full time when you're in the NFL. 

 

 

I agree. He faired well taking hits from NFL type players in the SEC. No other QB in consideration for #2 draft pick faced tougher, harder hitting defenders than Daniels. 

1 minute ago, Ghost of said:

McCarthy used them enough. As I watched the Championship game, I said he was going to have to run to get comfortable again. Apparently backed up near the end zone, he had already recognized Cover 2 (maybe Tampa 2) and exploited it for a huge gain to get them out of trouble. I see a guy like Josh Allen and while I don't think you want JJ running like that or trying to truck people, he can definitely use his legs while he gets comfortable. I found that he often didn't run but instead ran outside on play action of some kind or another and did well on those plays on short and intermediate throws (between layers of the defense.) Having heard him break down what he saw that caused him to throw to Roman Wilson vs. OSU, or that he should run to get out of trouble in the title game, I think he's much more adept than his career has shown (in the film room.)

 

I want guys who mix fantastic physical skills with demonstrated results in winning and the sort of temperament that lends itself to leading and winning as a quarterback.  Arguably, a lot of guys have great tools and people salivate over but they haven't shown they are winners.  Others may be winners or good leaders like Colt McCoy was, but lack the tools to consistently deliver. McCarthy not only has both but grew up in an organization that develops players and team chemistry (at least for now, if Harbaugh leaves who knows what effect that has).

Agree 100% on McCarthy assessment. I believe he is #3 QB in this years draft. He is a winner with great mobility, a strong enough arm, and processes really well. When the lights were brightest this past season this guy always shined!