Jump to content
Washington Football Team Logo


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Posts posted by Art

  1. I held off as long as possible.


    Being a Washington Redskins fan is difficult in an age with no team named the Washington Redskins.   In that every football memory and joy and passion I've had has surrounded the Washington Redskins, having it disappear is a bit of a jolt.   The Redskins were my fall calendar.   They were on.   I was in front of a TV.   I was not an NFL fan.   I was a fan of the Redskins and when they did well, I watched a TON of NFL content.   And when they did poorly, I just watched the Redskins and pouted until the next game :).

    I will always have fond memories of my life as a fan of the Washington Redskins fan and I would never leave the Washington Redskins.   But, like so many ex-wives (if you're like me you can collect them and number them) they left me.   So as with everyone we now start a new journey with a new team.   Whether the Washington SOMETHINGS or something other.   We get to fit new memories associated with a new name and new logo and new era inside our fan passion.   I suspect this era will fail to achieve the moments of the Redskins era, but, I'll do what I can to have fun at least.

    For me, I'll be moving on to my local team of the past 20 years I have openly hated, the Vikings, because, they are local, I don't actually care, and my kids can probably tolerate being around me on game days as I won't really care :).   I will dabble with an AFC option too.   The Texans, as my nephew is there and if I can like them any it is a good thing to bond over instead of having me threaten to burn his Texans gear all the time.

    Being an EXTREME SKINS fan has been a wonderful part of my memories, even as it's not something I've been quite as much of as children have required more and more time.   But I'll miss some of you here and the personalities and the exchanges.   Today I retire from all things associated with my favorite team, the Washington Redskins, as the Washington Redskins have informed me they are, indeed, gone.   I will hold out a tiny bit of hope the trademark holder of the new name is a fan like us and holds Snyder hostage for 10 years of trademark fighting, forcing him to keep the team at least one more year, like good break up sex, only over six months.

    Hail to the Redskins.   You will always be MY team.

    To those of you who move on with the linear organization, enjoy and good luck.   I'll always have a soft spot for that team.

    To those moving on somewhere else, good luck.   If you enter the Vikings realm, give me a shout.   I'm sure I'll be around.   

    I don't know how to delete from here, but this will be my final visit to a Redskin forum.   

    Best wishes to you all.   Goodbye my Redskins :).

    • Like 6
    • Thanks 4
    • Sad 10
  2. 1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:


    This kills me, man, jus because someone roots for the Redskins to win doesnt mean they are going to win.  


    So what, Rivera turns down job that is offering him damn near full roster control right up the street from Carolina so he doeant have to move so far because we dont have the #2 pick for Young?  That's overthinking it, we might still trade down if offer is right based on other needs, that really is the best interests of the team, not overinvesting in the dline when you have no oline.


    But ya, that's opinion.  If folks dont want the label of not being true fans for rooting for loses, it goes both ways, cant accuse people of not having the best interest of the team because they want to win. That's not right.


    When i root for my team to win I get upset when they lose.   So when I say if you are rooting for a win it presumes you'd be upset if we lost.   Like bothered.   I wouldn't kick a win out of bed for eating crackers, but I would have probably been a tad irritated the team picked that moment to play given what they'd done all year.   

    • Like 2
  3. 16 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:


    Yanno, how anyone can continue to be SO disingenuous to the players and staff who've worked their respective asses off through a horrible year, along with any fan that's paid good money all year to support this team, by classing wins as 'hopeless' is completely beyond me. 


    I get opposing views which is the basis of any fan discussion. You want a chance at Young. That's sound. 


    But to flippantly dismiss any potential win, why we play the game in the first place, regardless of record, as 'hopeless' is a terrible way of framing things and comes across as very self-righteous mate. 




    What was in the best interest of the Washington Redskins on Sunday?   Winning a meaningless game at Dallas largely with players who won't be here next year, both lowering our draft position AND making us less attractive to potential coaching and personnel people in the process, or losing that game and maintaining the benefit of that pick?   This is not to say you had to root for a loss.   Of course not.   But if you were rooting for a win you weren't actually thinking about what was in the team's best interest.   The players who worked their respective asses off, as you put, got their head coach fired and were in the middle of roughly our worst season ever.   They should have worked harder when it mattered if it mattered.

    • Like 6
  4. Just now, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

    Question for the "experts". I read Rivera is/was a 4/3 scheme coach. Does this portend a 4/3 Defense here if he is hired (that's what he prefers) or does he have the personal flexibility to let his choice of DC run a 3/4 and not mandate a 4/3. Also, if Rivera is hired..how does this effect Norman (who under Rivers was a damn good corner in his schemes)


    Basically..has Rivera ever used a 3/4???


    He used a 3/4 this past season to copy what the Bears were doing.   And some feel it played a part in why his defense struggled.    There is NO DOUBT in my mind if Rivera is our coach we're running a 4-3 though :).

    • Like 1
  5. 46 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:


    NFL wont approve the moving of a founding franchise from leaving the #6 market in country because they dont want to help him pay for a stadium.  If he moves, hes not serious about winning us back, all three DMV are heading towards no on public funds if they havent already.  DC council and populace is hard no right now, if he really wants a stadium on RFK site, hes going to bend.


    Edit: whens last time you been to FedEx?  I get where you coming from, jus gotta say, things are different jus in the last year or two.  This is going to take a lot of work. A lot of work.


    I went to the Packers game last year.   Too many Packers fans to be sure, but the team was doing well, the game was entertaining and we won.   That was before Smith got hurt.   The experience was fine, though certainly not ideal given the visitors :).   And you are incorrect if you think the NFL will stop a team from moving from the No. 6 market when they have never stopped a team from leaving the No. 1 market.   It hurts every other owner if Snyder can't extract from one of three states the same types of deals other states give.   So you're kidding yourself if you think someone isn't paying for it and it won't be Snyder.   Now, is it possible people put on a happy face and Snyder announces self funding and then the area passes a 3 percent "entertainment" tax that goes to the team?   Sure.   But he'll get public funding.   For sure.   Unless it doesn't happen before the league popularity and leverage decreases, which is a serious possibility in that such a thing is already happening.

  6. 3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

    Living in the area, I can say it's not jus because the team sucks, the experience does as well.  You can get in there for less then $20 and folks still wont go, I had an entire row to myself for the Jets game.


    Getting a shuttle between the two closests metro stations and the stadium would be huge for folks like my dad that dont want to do that walk anymore, hes getting older, and be easier for folks with little kids. Make it free, metro used to have one, I dont know if it was free.


    Snyder needs to offer to build the stadium in DC with his own money.  I'll take him more seriously about trying to make up for the damage hes done.  Majority in DC want redskins back in DC, majority in DC dont want public funds goin to stadium.  

    Some state or District government is paying for the Redskins stadium.   Or the team moves.   You can't keep an NFL team if you're not all in on it with area funding in this day and age at least.   That could change.   But, yes, I understand the experience isn't awesome.   But I was in that stadium and have experienced some good moments.   So it can be ok when we don't suck :).   It always was the worst stadium in the league though.   JKC loved the Meadowlands.   Super dumb.

  7. I attempt a standalone thread here because this seems like a reasonably different conversation with a concept not previously shared.

    The Redskins are obviously suffering a decline in fan interest based purely on the merit of being largely uninteresting and sorry for far too long.    Once the largest, and full stadium in the NFL, is chopped up and closed off with tarps.   Opposing fans relax in our stadium.   This happens when the home team sucks.   I recall attending a game in the early 90s in New England when the Skins were great and the Pats sucked.   It was the smallest crowd of the NFL year with just under 22,000 fans in the stadium.  Most of us were Skins fans.

    And the group I was at the game with literally sang Hail to the Redskins the entire game.   We were on the Boston news that night.   The sorry state of the Pats.   That corrected, as our situation corrects, with a winning organization.   The Redskins problems with fans obviously need wins.   But more importantly, even in losing, there are ways to build community loyalty and generational adoration.   Given we have generations now who do not know what I lived through in the 80s, you want to do this.

    So, to Dan Snyder I propose the following sweeping changes and embrace anyone in agreement to say so and I'll make someone at the Park read it :).

    1. Every home game, partner with a DMV school district.   Just one.   Give any student tickets for themselves and their family.


    2. Put the people in an untarped section or two.


    3. Give these people free parking.   (In fact, I'd probably make all parking free in RalJon until you win again as a gesture).

    4. Give each person holding these tickets $20 of free concessions, but not alcohol due to legal issues.

    5. Give the STUDENT holding the ticket a free Redskins jersey in the team store.

    6. Arrange communication between the student and the chosen player somehow.   E-mail, regular mail, something.   Connect the fan to the player.

    7.Give these people pre-game sideline access and maybe post-game tunnel access.

    Start here.   This is a loss of money initially.   But you build brand loyalty reaching young kids with an experience many may be priced out of and almost ALL would be uninterested in given the state of the team.   I mean, I'm not eager to go to games and blow a couple hundred when we suck and I still actually like the team.

    Doing something like this puts young people in the stands and gives them a memory.   It puts your gear in schools.   It puts them in a position to lead the next generation of fans to stay true and hopefully we get good again one day.  

    Snyder is a businessman but he's a BAD businessman in that he'll see this and likely do math in his head as to the costs.   But the monetary downstream benefit is immense.   Over time and commitment to the fans you need to thrive with.   You can always recoup when you are good as fans will pay whatever is necessary to enjoy winning.   In sustained bouts of sucking, though, you have to be willing to dig into your pocket.   Spend a few million on the people you need to spend many more millions on you.   And the investment will pay off over time.

    These are my thoughts.   And I'm sticking to them :).

    • Like 11
    • Thanks 4
  8. 31 minutes ago, UKskins said:

    Norman is on a huge contract. If he's cut due to bashing the organisation publically, I'm pretty sure he loses that. Ain't nobody else paying him big money considering he's played like a scrub. What a martyr though, not having a tantrum for $16million per year. Sounds like a real tough gig.


    Not at all in favour of orchestrating. We always hear what a short career window players have blah blah balh and I just think there's acceptable risk, and then there is choosing to jump over a ****ing bull. If you don't see a difference between driving a car and jumping over a bull, I don't know what to say. If he wants to do it so bad, do it 5 years down the line when he's retired. This year 13 people were gored by bulls during the "risk-free" bull run Josh participated in. Plus hundreds of injuries that were not related to gorings, but people getting trampled in the crush. Plus the fact the bull run is horrifically abusive to the animals - I'm from the UK and we don't really do hunting etc like you guys, so our views on animal rights tend to be slightly different to y'all, but its hard for anyone to justify participating in an event that comes from getting bulls angry by stabbing the **** out of them, so people can run away from them.

    But yeah, dude is a stand up guy, playing like ****, pocketing 16mill a year to do it, and not throwing a tantrum (which would jeopardise his 16mill).


    If you think Norman is precluded from calling out Manusky due to a contractual concern about his money you'd be wildly incorrect.   He was actually more at risk of his contract had the bull hit him than by calling a dumb coach a dumb coach.   We'll simply disagree.   I've appreciated Norman hasn't made the Normal situation about him.   He's quietly finished out his season and probably his time here.   I'm CERTAIN we'll hear from him in the near future.   But getting to here was the right way to handle business.   And it's appreciated.   Even if his level of play was not :).

  9. 3 minutes ago, Tarhog said:

    Never crossed my mind - I know you're good people and always have.  Interesting about 'megathreads' - it occurs to me that it's sort of a form of 'Twitterization'. I love Twitter, but the format sort of encourages stream of consciousness posting, snark, and aggressiveness. I think folks tend to be gentler and more respectful when someone's taken the time to start a discussion than they are just responding to another individual post. And as for insults, you know me - overly sensitive :)


    If Twitter encourages posting, snark and aggressiveness it's a wonder I haven't taken better to it :).   But you're right.   You build a bond with the "OP" in threads.   You refer to the OP.   The OP sets the path of the conversation and that gets lost in the mega threads.   But it is maybe just a sign of the times.

  10. Just now, SkinFanInMinn said:

    No, now I understand how  you can all him hypocritical and dim and get away with it.  🤣


    And in so doing, join him in ignorant bliss in the belief Snyder should not be involved, unless his involvement is what you want, right?   No.   I know you don't think that.   But, as many before you, and many yet to come, once tweaked, vacating clean is hard.   So, no worries.   Enjoy the huddle of people who like thinking dumb thoughts :).

  11. 1 minute ago, SkinFanInMinn said:

    Ok, reread that part.  Guess I was unaware of the stipulation about calling them "stupid when done in appropriate and jutifiable context".  I guess I just run with the "if you're usure, being civil is the safest course" part.  :)



    Right.   So now you grasp why believing Snyder should never be involved unless you like him being involved makes the holder of such a contextual belief reasonably identifiable as dim and hypocritical and LIKELY doesn't really believe that once faced with what they are actually saying :).

  12. 6 hours ago, SkinFanInMinn said:

    Yes, I am in Minnesota.  Northwest burb of Minneapolis called Rogers.  


    And the "This" refers back to the prior question you posed, which was:

    "So, you're saying you don't have a problem with Snyder telling the football people, you know, his coach, how they need to run a franchise when you agree with what he does, but you have a problem with Snyder telling the football people how to run a franchise when you don't?"  


    However, I still propose that the rest of it is directed at the poster not their opinion.  Not to be an English nerd (because Lord knows I'm not), you could rewrite your sentence as "Your comment about Snyder makes you entirely hypocritical and dim".  I still don't see that improving things in my opinion.

    Maybe I do then.  I've seen it quoted often enough (not towards me though 😁 ).

    Small world.   Shoreview here.   


    <mod edit rule-violating content>

  13. On 12/30/2019 at 12:54 PM, Tarhog said:

    Content-specific forums are dying brothers. It's just a fact. There are some exceptions - I belong to an amazing golf forum that is thriving, but I mean it's about golf, and there are a lot of people who will always love and be obsessed with golf. But the Redskins :) That's a hard sell. When Om and Henry and Pete and I started our own board, it thrived for a long while. But the miseries that are being a Redskins fan, the overall decline in the popularity of the NFL in general, and the fact that forums no longer appeal when compared to megasites like Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, has slowly eroded our membership and participation level.


    Forums have always been super cool. I hope they survive. I hope ES survives.


    <mod edit>


    And not that anyone asked, never been a fan of sweeping related smaller threads into 'megathreads'. It sort of discourages folks from creating more nuanced conversations. Sure it's harder to manage a gazillion smaller threads, many of which could be posts. But that's kind of what you signed up for as a staff member. <mod edit>


    Anyway, this thread caught my eye. Interesting discussion. 


    Good to see you brother.  <mod edit rule-violating content> 

    • Like 1
  14. 3 minutes ago, SkinFanInMinn said:

    Ummm, huh?  You said "This makes you entirely hypocritical and dim."  The word "This" is a pronoun refering to your prior question.  However the remainder is clear "makes YOU hypocritical and dim".  That is as clear as can be.  You're calling the poster hypocritical and dim because of a stated opinion.  That is what I thought we were supposed to stay away from.  You didn't argue their opinion, you attacked their intelligence.


    Yeah.    This refers to what?   Once you figure that out, a world of possibilities opens to you I suspect.

    Secondarily, are you actually in Minnesota?   I am as well.   About to snow throw.   But not many of us up this way.

  15. 1 minute ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

    1) Snyder stepped in because our coach and GM wouldn’t.  There’s a problem right there. 

    2)  It’s been reported numerous times our scouts didn’t want Haskins.  Allen and Snyder overruled them.  I don’t care if we selected him or not but it shouldn’t be the owner deciding our drafts. 

    So, you're saying you don't have a problem with Snyder telling the football people, you know, his coach, how they need to run a franchise when you agree with what he does, but you have a problem with Snyder telling the football people how to run a franchise when you don't?   This makes you entirely hypocritical and fairly dim.   But if you're happy, that's all that matters I suppose.

    Again.   You see what you're doing?   Yelling, "SNYDER STAY OUT OF IT," except when I like that you don't.   You either want him in, or out.   Which?   I can tell which.   You want him in.   I mean, as long as it's under the terms you think are ok.   I'm pretty sure we're all glad you don't own the team, cause you'd probably act like, you know, you own the team.

  16. 3 minutes ago, SkinFanInMinn said:

    So I thought we were supposed to stick to arguments and not directly insult other posters.


    So you are calling the poster "this".  Is that his preferred gender pronoun, or do you perhaps have difficulty following content?   What's the sentence before it.   What's the word - hint, it's "this" -- after it.   What am I calling hypocritical and dim?   Right.   Remember, I wrote the insult rules here.   Content matters.   I wrote the rule for myself, obviously, as I do not expect others to fully appreciate nuance.   You clearly seem to struggle, yeah?

  17. 2 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

    If our owner has to step in to protect our QB then our coach is a coward.  Also if Snyder cares so much about his players where was he when Griffin got a wrecked?  That was our “savor”.   As far as the vision of the team quite simply no he shouldn’t be involved.   He know zero about running one.   He needs to leave all football decisions and visions to people that know how to do it.  We are talking about the health of a player in jeopardy situation where the people that should make the right decision aren’t vs running the franchise as a whole. Total different situations.


    So, you're saying you don't have a problem with Snyder telling the football people, you know, his coach, how they need to run a franchise when you agree with what he does, but you have a problem with Snyder telling the football people how to run a franchise when you don't?   This makes you entirely hypocritical and fairly dim.   But if you're happy, that's all that matters I suppose.

    This will be easy so long as you keep saying the same thing.   Yeah, I get it.   You WANT Snyder to step in when you think he should, and you don't want him to when you think he shouldn't.   I totally get ya.   Yet, I suspect, you do not get what that makes you :).   I bet you believe Snyder made and forced the Haskins pick too.   And if Haskins is the savior, was that a good thing?   It didn't happen, but I bet you think it did, so you like it if it's good, right?

  18. 5 minutes ago, UKskins said:

    We're supposed to be thankful that Norman didn't act like a spolied brat when he was benched for getting torched every 6th snap?

    Norman has pocketed a tonne of money and played like a JAG in DC. This year like an incredibly bad JAG.


    He was never an ass whilst here? OK, how about the time he risked his damn career jumping over a bull?


    I see you are a fella who thinks he should orchestrate the lives of players such that they act at all times by a list of approved items.   I watched Norman jump over a bull and at no point did he seem at any risk.   I hear Norman also drives a car and, thus, puts his career and life in jeopardy constantly because people get in accidents.   Obviously it's good he's the only guy who would take such risks.   Oh, uh, nevermind.

    Yes, I think he deserves GREAT credit for not hammering at an incompetent defensive coordinator when that coordinator was throwing him under the bus.   I still like DJ and appreciate his willingness to tell the truth we all knew about the organization but doing it how he did in that venue is what a team can't live with.   Norman handled his situation professionally and with grace.   Period.   It's ok not to like his level of play and still thank him for doing something right.   


    • Like 5
  19. 2 minutes ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

    I don’t have a problem with Snyder protecting our potential franchise QB if our coach is too coward to make the call in a pointless game.   I have a problem with him telling the football people how they need to run the franchise.  The owner’s job is make sure the stadium is packed with fans watching a winning team.  He has failed in all accounts. Honestly I’d rather he have a consulting firm find a GM that sees the potential in the team.  Someone that has no agenda other than finding the right person.


    So, you're saying you don't have a problem with Snyder telling the football people, you know, his coach, how they need to run a franchise when you agree with what he does, but you have a problem with Snyder telling the football people how to run a franchise when you don't?   This makes you entirely hypocritical and fairly dim.   But if you're happy, that's all that matters I suppose.

  20. 1 minute ago, hail2skins said:

    Art, I think it is fair to ask/answer the question about, with these great coaches, why this team has been a combined 50 games under .500 the past 21 seasons.

    Any number of reasons.   But, here's a fact.   The last time our offensive line was healthy for 16 games each, we were in the playoffs.   The Rams, last year, had that happen.  This year they didn't.   Was there a difference?   In very recent years our biggest issue has been two things.   First, an inordinate number of injuries.   Not this past season, but last year and the year before we likely win at least one division title with half as many injuries.   The second primary problem has been the lack of a QB who is consistently better than roughly No. 15 in the league.


    I'm a huge believer that most modern and sustained NFL success comes when you have a Top 5 and even Top 10 QB.   Beyond that you need something unique.   The Ravens stand out as a team with good sustained success without the best QB, though this year maybe they had that level of QB play too.   We have just never hit on that guy.   Both years we've had very good QB play in this decade, we've made the playoffs.   Even with Gibbs, we made the playoffs when Collins came in and got hot once.    

    Now, along with this we have also had some issues with coaching.   Gruden, for example, was famous for running his system, be damned.   He didn't stop running his system.    Under any circumstance.   That was dumb when players couldn't play it, and dumber when injuries meant he had to adapt.   Hell, you saw we were more competitive this year just having a coach in charge who recognized we couldn't do some things.    Shanahan simply had too much authority and was horrible on personnel.   Remember, "I know quarterbacks and John Beck can play."   Uh...   Uh...   Uh....    He also wanted McNabb at that stage.     

    Gibbs also made the QB mistake with Brunell and Campbell just wasn't good enough.

    Spurrier...well, he wasn't really a coach for the NFL as it turned out.


    And Marty effectively had a team rebellion against him and that team came together on one thought....HATRED OF MARTY.   Except for Lavar I guess.    

    Obviously we've had personnel office issues as well at times during this.   Obviously pronounced around the Gibbs era and the Shanahan era.   It's been stronger the last five or six years here, but Gruden and whoever he let coach the defense simply never did anything to help the players.   Ever.   I believe the NFL is the most important sport for coaches especially on game day.    And you saw how we ALWAYS got out classed after halftime under Gruden.   Other teams adjusted to what we were doing.   And we did our thing even when it stopped working.

    We were generally fine against other stubborn coaches and not fine against coaches willing to shed something and do something new.   Under Gruden I mean.


  21. Just now, RichmondRedskin88 said:

    Yes we are a laughing stock.  We are fortune anyone wants to come here.  If Bruce has stepped up to podium to say he was staying today I swear I’d be a Raven by tonight.  I haven’t sat through 30+ years of suck with nothing to cheer for then the Bruce Allen BS (I thought the swinging gate was the lowest point of this team lately. Ironically Allen’s first game.) to watch Snyder interfere again.  If he wants to get his jollies on firing everyone be my guest.  But stay out of the coach and GM’s way.  He doesn’t know **** about running a team so stop trying. 

    I am trying to help you.   Reconcile these two things.   One, your statement:

    "Yes we are a laughing stock."

    Two, the reality of....Rivera, who would have four offers (and is already guaranteed money from the Panthers) the instant he wanted them right now not only coming here, but entirely giving everyone else the gas face.

    Both things can't be true.   Only one can.   Which do you think it is?  Now, more importantly, which do you HOPE it is?   If you at least don't HOPE it's the second, you really shouldn't be here at all.


    • Like 1
  • Create New...