Grinder

This is why the best wrestling matches are via YouTube.

The WWE talent well is so dry that Rock, HHH, and Undertaker can pull off the bubblewrap once a year and headline their biggest PPV.

Now they have completely devalued their own champion via a clean loss to a guy whos wrestling is more hobby than livelihood.

Give me the older Mid-Atlantic, Georgia, hell even the old AWA stuff over this $65 a pop crapfest.

Here's the problem with your analysis... All of the legends beat each other up. Cena came in right when they stopped. Cena losing to any of them at WrestleMania doesn't dent Cena's legacy in the least. The guy, like him or not, literally carried the company for YEARS on his back. Having one of the best superstars in WWE history come back to lose to Cena is just dumb. And the WWE will catch a TON of flack for that. My guess is that Rock beats Cena at Mania in a classic match. Cena regains the upper hand at a lesser event and they leave it with the score being even.

Here's the problem with your response: Those legends that used beat each other up, did it while being full time wrestlers. Sure they might miss a little time due to injury here and there, but in their prime they were in the ring on the daily.

The Rock has been out of action for how long? The sporatic appearances on Raw don't make him a full time wrestler (not in my book anyway) and having the guy they are building their company around lose to him at their biggest show would devalue his worth severely.

Some token appearances just before Wrestlemania aren't enough to make anyone forget that Rock has been chilling in Hollywood while Cena has been, I dunno, wrestling.

Remember, Cena has to still work after Rock goes back to acting, why have him lay down when the WWE can still milk a little name recognition and Cena image correction from Rock losing?

"Man, Cena beat the Rock...he must be more badass than I thought..." kind of thing.

---------- Post added November-6th-2011 at 12:01 AM ----------

Maybe it's just me, but I don't look at it like that. I look at jobbing as losing in an unspectacular fashion, or losing to a guy who is not on your level. Both of these guys are established, so whichever one loses, I won't look at it in that fashion.

You might be thinking of "jobber"...one of the guys who used to drop 95% of his matches. Anyone can do a "job" though.

Still its hard for me to see how the WWE benefits from giving Rock a win here, but it is the same company that let Lawrence Taylor get a clean win over Bam Bam Bigelow (RIP).

Also, I will admit that I am a huge fan of The Rock, but the idea of anyone "jobbing" to The Brahma Bull is beyond hilarious. Cena may be a legend, but The Rock is an Icon that defined an era, the greatest era in the history of professional wrestling. There will be no "jobbing" by either of the two. It will be a great feud/match, and Cena (and his character) will live.

"Jobbing" = to lose the match. So you think there won't be a loser in this match? I don't follow.

There is no way Cena beats The Rock, as much as Cena would hate it. There would be an uprising, and I would lead it.

Then the message would be that an ex-wrestler turned actor could make a one-night cameo and beat the face of the WWE on the biggest show of the year.

I get that Cena is wildly unpopular but the WWE punks itself if they let him job to the less than part-time Rock, heel or no heel.

From the "Where are they now?" files:

I was listening to the Walter Reeves Atlanta yard and garden radio show (totally random event trust me) and who is doing the sports segment? Our boy Tony Schiavonne!

http://www.wsbradio.com/lsp/programs/lawn-and-garden-show-walter-reeves/

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/807736-20-things-the-wwe-can-do-right-now-to-improve-the-product

a really good list.

particularly the ones " stop hotshotting title changes" and "end the brand extension". Smackdown is the weak sister and having two (WWE and World) champions to accomodate it has been a godawful idea. Just let one main champ and the main tag champs go back and forth between both shows. Then each show can have their own US, Intercontinental, TV, etc champ as well.

As for the too frequent title changes its to the point where every wrestler will get a turn with the main belt. Makes me miss the days when Backlund and Hogan would actually hold on to their titles for YEARS. It was a BIG deal when one of these guys finally lost it. Now, a guy like Edge is an 11-time champ. 11 $#@#! times?! Crazy.

---------- Post added August-18th-2011 at 07:31 PM ----------

For your reading pleasure: "Urban legends of Pro Wrestling" thread:

http://www.oowrestling.com/OOForums/viewthread.php?tid=21720

Some fairly explicit stuff so NSFW.

I was immediately drawn to rumor #76 :laugh:

Miz>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Del Rio.

Push R-Truth.

Miz has it all over him in charisma and mic skills but I think that the company still values size more than anything in their heels. Not saying its right but I think they want them "bigger than life' and thus more threatening. I see him mid-carding for awhile.

R-Truth is still really interesting but right now he looks like a damn good U.S.-type champ; not a World champ. Of course, no one saw Foley as a world champ for a long time either...

I saw a video of Scott Hall at some indy promo about a month ago. It ain't pretty. Very, very sad.

Yeah he's in no shape whatsoever to work any kind of angle right now. You want to shock the fans triple H? Bring Chyna back :pfft:

Some of us could see the Del Rio thing coming a mile away because he's been groomed as the only major heel on Raw (ok second if you still count the Miz) for awhile now. Creative still needs to find at least one more guy who can generate some real heat on that show imo.

Unfortunately it looks like Punk is already being steered away from the belt by having him more concerned about who was behind Nash's attack on him than getting a rematch. Naturally Cena is right there before the show is over issuing a challenge to Del Rio.

Looking ahead...

The only way there is interest in a Cena-Rock Wrestlemania main event is if the WWE title is at stake. Heres what I'd like to see happen:

A new Money in the Bank "holder" is decided. That person doesn't actually use it but ends up passing it to someone else off-camera. Fast forward to the champ (Cena most likely) being out of it at the end of a match and suddenly here comes the Rock! He hands over the briefcase and after a People's elbow and Rock-bottom he's the champ!

Everyone watching would go freaking nuts and its a great way to get the Rock in without having him wrestle an actual match. Due to the 30 day limit to defend this would have to go down right before Wrestlemania, but thats ok since the MIB thing needs a break anyway.

So its Punk vs Cena to unify the belts at SummerSlam -although none of the other stuff I thought might happen actually did.

Raise your hand if you knew Rey wasn't leaving with the belt when Triple H announced the second title match.

I kind of like the idea that Del Rio could be the first wrestler to NOT turn the Money in the Bank into a world championship. Still Raw needs a new top heel and screwing either Punk or Cena after the SummerSlam main event could put him there.

---------- Post added July-26th-2011 at 06:36 AM ----------

In other news, apparent Kane is out for a few months with a fracture fibula. I hated the turn after he took off the Mask. I hate the poor use of his size and strength.

The "needing to shed my humanity" [paraphrasing] comments last week tease a return to wearing the mask imo.

http://www.heymanhustle.com/videos/viewvideo/73/various/cm-punk-invades-comic-con

Punk vs Triple H at ComicCon

I'd be interested in some of your takes on where you see this storyline going...

For me, it seems like the "winning with a bum leg" bit is setting up a face turn for the Miz. I say he beats Rey next week and then Del Rio does a really heinous Money in the Bank run-in taking the belt and leaving Miz injured and a fan favorite.

From there it goes one of 2 ways:

1- Cena wins the title from Del Rio setting up a 'unification match' vs CM Punk at Summerslam with both versions of the WWE title on the line. The problem is this effectively kills whatever momentum Del Rio was building.

2- Del Rio keeps the title and Cena challenges for it in the main event at Summerslam. The problem is that this has Punk on the outside looking in when the guy is on fire right now.

So...what do you all have?

Nice work for a change WWE. More of this please.

I wonder if they have a working agreement with ROH that goes further than a Colt Cabana cameo...like Punk being able to show up on ROH with the WWE belt?

And what kind of reaction would it get to have Del Rio declared the new champ on Raw tonight anyway? Maybe the reasoning could be that Punk leaving without facing him in a match Vince demanded = Punk forfeiting the belt?

Another screwjob on an even more obvious scale..!

I'm sure its only temporary but thanks WWE for making me give a crap about something you are doing for a change.

It was a scripted shoot.

A damn GOOD one though : )

Good ole days = early-mid 80's Mid-Atlantic and Georgia championship wrestling shows

Piper/Flair, Slaughter/McDaniel, Rich/Sawyer, the Andersons vs whoever, these areas were sick with talent

Does anyone who watched wrestling back then still tune in today?

For me its become unwatchable. And I doubt its because I've "grown up".

No question todays wrestlers are far better athletes and the moves are way more varied/complex/dangerous...but there is no heart in it.

It just comes off to me as too overscripted ; more wrapped up in pyrotechnics and posing than selling a storyline.

/ end rant

I am a old school NWA fan as well. I remember the old Mid Atlantic Championship Wrestleing. I wish they would bring back the Television Championship belt also.

+1000000

Thank God for YouTube.

And then there were the Hollywood Blondes - Austin & Pillman.

I'm in the minority on this team as the only thing that stood out about them to me was the endless Pillman 'whining' when they split.

Some I didn't see mentioned yet:

Steamboat and Youngblood

The Eliminators (I can still hear Joey Styles screaming "Total Elimination!")

Sabu and Van Dam

Garea and Martel FTW (Mirror versions of each others trunks :applause: )

Anyone think they'll run Flair till Mania & put him up against The Undertaker's streak?

Flair runs the gauntlet until Wrestlemania where Vince himself does the honors.

my :2cents:

Completely agree on paring down the belt situation. The more titles they hand out the less fans care who wins or loses them.

They at least seem to have gotten back on the right track with letting Cena keep his belt for so long. The fact that its Cena (not a fan) isn't as important as the fact that they are adding stability and building long term interest in who will finally beat him. It makes it appear to be a big deal when the belt changes hands rarely than if a new guy is winning it every pay-per-view.

Crazy thought: With the steroid mess playing out, the WWE needs a "Nick Bockwinkel-type"...an average built but "crafty" type of wrestler to put a belt on. Most everyone he goes against should beat him but one way or another he manages to keep his belt.

Not necessarily groundbreaking but the guy could get some real heat constantly "escaping" matches as champ rather than just overpowering people.

And if its not a musclebound character you don't have the obvious "is he juicing" questions.

Ok that last part was especially simplistic

I go back further than this. Back to the late 70's, early 80's and the Andersons, Tully Blanchard, the great Ric Flair (not the old has-been jobber Ric Flair of today), Ricky Stemboat and my favorite of that era, Chief Wahoo McDaniel.

Wahoo was a popular player with the Jets back in the 60's. Joe Namath wrote about him in his autobiography. He was an even better wrestler who didn't get much of a title shot.

Yep, 80-81 was about the time I started watching also. Gene Anderson was a manager and when he reunited with Ole to go against the Masked Superstar (my favorite before Blanchard showed up) and Paul Jones, I thought that old guy would get killed.

Of course, my jaw was on the floor next week when the Andersons came out with the belts.

Along the same lines it seemed like Piper held the US belt forever as well. Week after week I'd tune in hoping for a new champ. Once it was announced that he would be defending against Andre the Giant and I figured that had to be it...until Piper showed up the next week with the belt and a t-shirt that said "Giant Killer" on it.

Had to be the best era of pro wrestling for me :notworthy

This could be a big deal for ECW if the Nature Boy Ric Flair becomes a 17 time Heavyweight champion and the Second man to have won the WCW, WWE, and ECW titles. I wonder if they are not happy with how the Big Show is being accepted as the champ.

I'd like to see Flair win this as much as anyone, but that would be three champs in the first month for ECW, and Paul E's "betrayal" would be pretty much wasted.

IMO, Flair will put up a good fight at first, then start getting mauled by Big Show. Whoever runs in to save Flair will become the main challenger.