Religion Revisited

[Tchershire]

After giving this much thought and due to the fact that we don't have anything substantial to work with until March 1 from a Free Agency perspective -- I decided to go back and open up the thread on religion that was originally started by OrangeSkin. There was a lot left unsaid and after mulling over the thread conversation, I thought a few more people might want to contribute. I start out by "answering" some of Die Hard's final questions on page 2. This is an emotional subject but I think we can all act like adults!<br /><br />“When you post and share your thoughts with people, you leave yourself open to judgment. That is life. People erroneously judge others every day. We judge them by their material possessions, their friends, their age, their employment, their religion, their gender, sexual orientation, etc.”<br /><br />You’re absolutely right Die Hard. People judge erroneously and people judged correctly! But the “key” word is that we all judge and we all have our opinions and our prejudices! How wonderful to think that God loves each one of us regardless of any of those things. Even though you don’t believe in Him, isn’t it incredible that He still believes in you and loves you? I realize that’s an incredible concept for you but you’d have an impossible time proving it is wrong!<br /><br />”And religious people, despite believing principles to the contrary, are some of the worst perpetrators.”<br /><br />Unfortunately, religious people, like all other people, are human and subject to that same frailties and mistakes that all of us are. It would be nice to think that religious people could rise above such human frailties based on their faith but it unfortunately doesn’t work that way. Whatever, I accomplish, I do so through Him because I can’t do it myself! Someone as pragmatic as you should realize that mankind has never been a shining example of love, understanding, selfless accomplishment, sacrifice,committment etc…..!<br /><br />”Actually, I'm one of the 'nice' guys. If you don't agree with me you're entitled to your opinion and I can respect that. Bottom line is we all ultimately end up in the same place - six feet under. Unlike religion though... I don't condemn people to eternal damnation.”<br /><br />But being human I bet you condemn them for something! And if they “piss you off” enough, I dare say that condemnation would be eternal! Regardless, “religion” doesn’t condemn people to eternal damnation – only God does!! – But man always has the choice! <br /><br />”Again... what is 'the truth'? What is 'freedom'? What is 'perfection'? Please continue to ignore my questions at your convenience.” <br /><br />Given those terms, I doubt even you can adequately define “truth,” “freedom,” or “perfection!” I won’t ignore your questions but I would expect you to have “universal” answers, acceptable across a wide spectrum of mankind! I’m highly skeptical!<br /><br />”Once again taking the 'easy' way out I see.”<br /><br />There’s nothing easy about believing in Jesus Christ, you’ve already demonstrated that!!<br /><br />”I don't have to know you to understand a metaphysical being doesn't exist inside despite the fact that you've convinced yourself otherwise. “I thought you said you wouldn't 'begin to judge' me? I'm still waiting to hear these wonderful 'truths' and 'facts'. Telling me Jesus lives inside is not a truth. And if the Bible is in fact the basis of your beliefs... then you're a little more feeble-minded than what originally thought.”<br /><br />Die Hard, you’re the one who believe in “proofs” why don’t you prove to me that a metaphysical being cannot or does not exist inside me? The very fact that you admit to a metaphysical possibility contradicts the impossibility of the concept!<br /><br />”Actually, I believe in truth. I believe in empirical evidence. And I live my life by making the decisions I so choose. For the most part, they're governed by the rules of the law. I believe it's in my best interests to do so. But ultimately, I'm responsible for my own actions.”<br /><br />Ah! What is Law?????? Physical Law, Judicial Law, Natural Law?????? How many times have these laws been redefined because of new discoveries???? Does that make all of your decisions, based on those laws, wrong?????? You are in fact responsible for your own actions but are either the actions or the decision executed in a vacuum? Does your life have an impact or an affect on others? Have you ever felt love or rage for another human being – if so, where is the empirical evidence that either of these two “states” actually exist? “If I feel therefore I am!?!?!?”<br /><br />”The snake, the apple, hell's minions, fire and brimstone, pearly gates, etc. These are wonderful analogies taught to little children. You're not a child any longer.”<br /><br />Oh I don’t know! Having gone through this thread, I wonder if we are not all still little children at heart – Searching, asking, looking for love, craving attention. Trying to understand why the sky is blue and why watermelons are filled with seeds! Why are babies born with crooked legs? Why do mothers drown their little children? Why do fathers kill other fathers? <br /><br />Is there some reason that will explain it all – some empirical evidence that will help me sleep at night? Whatever the reason, you would think that if we could just answer “why?” we might be able to get our arms around the problem. Maybe we could alter things enough never to have to repeat the past mistakes. Maybe we could actually see the error of our ways and never go down that path again. Perhaps we could really be better!<br /><br />But then again, maybe the question of “why?” is just like the pealing of the church bell as it rings across the countryside. It echoes and reverberates off the hillsides, and the storefronts, and the wooden fences. The people hear it as they hurry on their way to work, or play, or whatever. It’s listened to by the little children as they jump rope and keep time to the peals of the clapper. The dog barks at the clanging as if to challenge the bell with a noise of its own. The question of “why?’ is like that ringing bell. Easily recognized, . . . but never answered. As for me, I choose God.<br /><br />--------------------<br />Just when you think you're winning the rat race, along come faster rats!!

[Henry]

I don't know, Die Hard. There are millions upon millions of people on this planet who are just as sure as you that they know what's going on. Who's to say their answers are any less correct than yours? Frankly, your convictions appears just as militant as those of a born-again Christian, and it's been my experience that such close minded-ness is rarely a good thing.<br /><br />I probably fall into the same category as Om. The one thing I'm sure of about God and the cosmos is that I don't know a thing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[smile]" src="smile.gif" /> <br /><br />I will say that there have ocassionally been times, both good and bad, in my life when I felt the circumstances were beyond me, and that 'God' or something more than myself had to be involved. I think that's why SO many athletes talk about God letting them win the race or score the game-winning TD or whatever. Sometimes, such events seem to take on their own life and you feel as though you are just along for the ride. It's not so much that I felt I NEEDED God there, but that he was anyway.<br /><br />Well, whatever. I'm sure I'm not explaining this very well. I'm actually closer to Die Hard's end of the spectrum than Tchershires. (BTW, my inability to prove that God doesn't exist is not proof that he does. The onus is on you, the believer, to prove your contentions. Heck, I could just as easily ask Die hard to prove I am not the messiah, and use his inability to convince me otherwise to validate that belief. <img border="0" title="" alt="[smile]" src="smile.gif" /> ) <br /><br />But I do keep my mind open to the possibility that there is something out there that is greater than us, that we don't yet understand. Until I know for sure, I think I'll just try to follow the rules of Man as best I can and stay out of the way of the zealots. <img border="0" title="" alt="[smile]" src="smile.gif" /><br /> <br /> <small>[ February 25, 2002, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: Henry ]</small>