pez Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by Park City Skins Pez, btw, based on a few of your comments, I think you are about Star Wars, not "knowing" the difference between SF and Fantasy doesn't take away from that. It's a purist thing. Thanks PCS... I love the the star wars movies (more so the original trilogy, because that is what I grew up with) I am just not so invested into the finer points of sci-fi vs fantasy, etc. I just like to watch a good movie, and enjoy it for what it is. I do think there are alot of people that are trying to pick at the movie to much (that tree wasn't there the first episode... how come padme runs around pregnant, etc). IMO the movies are about Lucas being able to realize a story in his head for us on screen, and us being able to take a few minutes away from reality to enjoy that story... Plain and simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by pez I do think there are alot of people that are trying to pick at the movie to much (that tree wasn't there the first episode... how come padme runs around pregnant, etc). IMO the movies are about Lucas being able to realize a story in his head for us on screen, and us being able to take a few minutes away from reality to enjoy that story... Plain and simple You have to understand there aren't people who can't just do that, though. There will always be people who want questions answered. I'm one of them, to a degree. I can't just enjoy these because I'm so emotionally attached to the OT. I spent years of my childhood watching the movies with my friends and playing with figures & ships, etcetera. Many of us see these movies as integral parts of our childhoods. It's hard. Whenever I still hear Obi-Wan and his "From a certain point-of-view" line I still want to slam George Lucas' head with my car door a few thousand times... and that's just for starters. It's like being a musician. The drama group at the High School where my fiance teaches played Les Miserables for the first time. I thought the girl who played Fantine was impressive, but the orchestra was terrible. When she asked me what I thought, all I could say was the orchestra was bad, the intonation of the string players was off (I've played violin since the age of 7, so I know it's not easy), they sounded out-of-tune, etcetera. She yells at me and tells me to stop it because there are Parents around, bla, bla, bla. If she didn't want to know what I felt, she shouldn't have asked me... :laugh: Sometimes, it really is that difficult to just sit back, let go and enjoy something. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by ntotoro Whenever I still hear Obi-Wan and his "From a certain point-of-view" line I still want to slam George Lucas' head with my car door a few thousand times... and that's just for starters. Nick how do you REALLY feel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by ntotoro Sometimes, it really is that difficult to just sit back, let go and enjoy something. You sound alot like me, but for whatever reason, with the SW movies, I do just sit back and enjoy them. There were a few things that I may have had trouble with regard EPIII, but Lucas addressed them in a way that made sense to me and I couldn't have been happier. I grew up with the OT as well, but the weird thing is that I really have grown attached to the PT characters, Anakin and Obi Wan. I like them as much as Han and Luke from the OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by dviands how do you REALLY feel? Melancholy... :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pez Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by ntotoro Sometimes, it really is that difficult to just sit back, let go and enjoy something. Nick Don't get mad!! I am not meaning anything by it!!!, but I feel bad for you... there is enough stress in life, without adding to with intricacies of a fictional movie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by codeorama There were a few things that I may have had trouble with regard EPIII, but Lucas addressed them in a way that made sense to me and I couldn't have been happier. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy EPIII much, much more than 1&2. I actually felt for Anakin in the movie, which was the first time I felt emotion for any of the characters in the prequels. He had his own flaws and and Palpatine played him like a fiddle. It even kind of surprised me, although it makes sense when you think about it, that Palpatine knew Obi-Wan would defeat Anakin and that the injuries suffered would be the final nail in the coffin in terms of his journey to the Dark Side of the Force and the Sith. He would realize he really had nowhere else to go. A lot of things started to make more sense to me, even though I had seen several spoilers. I enjoyed it more than I expected, but I still have beefs with the prequels to a degree because it seemed like the whole Anakin/Luke thing was an afterthought from Lucas from the very start. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by pez Don't get mad!! I am not meaning anything by it!!!, but I feel bad for you... there is enough stress in life, without adding to with intricacies of a movie Actually, you'd be surprised what things roll off my back like water and what things push my buttons. Maybe my priorites are misplaced at times... :laugh: Seriously, though, these are just nitpicks that don't really register on the radar of my everyday life. It's just stuff for message boards and conversations among friends. I'm more worried about paying my mortgage on-time than whether every scar on Cajun Anakin's head was exactly the same as in ROTJ. Just for the record, though. Laura brought that up. I'd like to state that it didn't matter to me one way or the other... Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pez Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by ntotoro Seriously, though, these are just nitpicks that don't really register on the radar of my everyday life. It's just stuff for message boards and conversations among friends. I'm more worried about paying my mortgage on-time than whether every scar on Cajun Anakin's head was exactly the same as in ROTJ. Nick Good man! Tell tell you the truth, some people I have seen around carry it way over to the extreme, like some of the trekkies you see around that interrogate the actors, why a certain little item is just out of whack. I can't wait till one of the star wars actors, quotes William Shatner: "Get a life!" :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Sure Laura brought it up... I know you are probably searching for online scans of both head shots.... LOL LOL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by codeorama Sure Laura brought it up... I know you are probably searching for online scans of both head shots.... LOL LOL... Ha... :laugh: I swear it was her. We were in the car, just after seeing the movie and she said "How come his head looks different in ROTJ than when he got all burned up? His scars were different." I had a Lucas moment and said "Well, he did a whole lot of healing between then and the end of ROTJ... " :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by ntotoro Ha... :laugh: I swear it was her. We were in the car, just after seeing the movie and she said "How come his head looks different in ROTJ than when he got all burned up? His scars were different." I had a Lucas moment and said "Well, he did a whole lot of healing between then and the end of ROTJ... " :laugh: LOL.. That's hilarious... It wouldn't have been cool for him to still have pus and scabbing after 20 years...:doh: :laugh: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinzOwnU Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 As a huge fan of the original trilogy, I was not at all pleased with eps I and II. Nevertheless, I found myself surprisingly optomistic about the prospects for episode III - boy am I disappointed. It was better than I and II, clearly, although thats not saying much, but man it was still bad. There are a lot of flaws with this new trilogy, and fixing a little here and there wouldn't begin to patch things up, they were just done poorly and are fatally flawed. Whatever lucas had, he lost it. Think back to the original trilogy. The plot moves smoothly, and in a logical manner. The humor is used sparingly, and effectively, the special effects are impressive but not imposing, and the characters were real. In this new trilogy, the plot is very deliberate. The story is forced, and lucas is trying to fit the characters into a certain mold, rather than letting some of their personality shine through. Episode I and II exist solely as background for episode III, which subsequently serves as an attempt to prop and explain the real star wars trilogy (4-6). A new hope, empire and jedi are all stand alone movies. They are all part of a continuing story, but each is its own movie, with a beginning, middle, and end. An entire plot that does not rely on any other movies. These new prequels depend too much on the other movies in the series, and never felt like they had 2 legs of their own to stand on. I don't even want to get into the obssessive use of special effects, poor acting, poor writing, and and the repeated "on the nose" dialogue that basically just tells the audience whats going on without letting them see it. Seeing darth vader at the end still acting like a child has ruined a part of star wars for me, and the manner in which the emperor converted anakin to the dark side was so idiotic and disappointing that it has ruined much of the mystique that was previously behind those characters. Both characters now appear to be very weak, rather than both evil and powerful as we had all thought before. And there were some points in the film, crucial points, like when the emperor was converting anakin after samuel jackson's death, serious and important parts, dark parts, that much of the audience, including myself, were just laughing at because they were done so poorly. This is not how star wars should have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Empire and Jedi are NOT stand-alone movies. You'd be lost in 10 minutes if you hadn't seen Star Wars. There is no way the PT could have the same impact or magic surrounding it as the OT. It consisted of the 4th, 5th, and 6th Star Wars movies made and it was going to lose some steam by then. I think the PT did a great job of answering questions and, more importantly, giving Star Wars fans what they've wanted since 1983, several more years of Star Wars movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gridironmike Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by GSF 1. My biggest problem with this movie was Lucas spent 2.5 movies encouraging kids to be rooting for Annakin, and then all of the sudden he's slaughtering children. The transition from good to evil was way too easy and made no sense. As someone said in the other thread, 1 minute he's screaming "what have I done", and the next minute he's killing kids. How are young people suposed to process this? Darth Vader toys have filled the shelves at the toy stores for months (my kids have the helmut and the light sabre), and I don't think kids were prepared for what they saw. I would be ok with it if kids had a chance to see Vader redeem himself later in another movie, but ending the entire series (supposedly) this way was just poor taste IMO. I guess Lucas is hoping that parents will run out and buy the DVDs from the first 3 episodes so that kids can see how it finally ends. The reaction in the theatre was.....quiet astonishment followed by several kids asking questions. I was even slightly shocked when Anakin was burning, and my son said he dreamed about it last night. He understands it is a movie (nine year old) and knows its not real, but it was a little profound (I know its PG-13). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinzOwnU Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by TD_washingtonredskins Empire and Jedi are NOT stand-alone movies. You'd be lost in 10 minutes if you hadn't seen Star Wars. I said they were part of a continuing story. What I meant by stand-alone is that the movies had a plot and a purpose beyond getting to the next one. Obviously the context from ep 4 is necessary to fully understand ep 5 and so forth, but the movie had a beginning, middle and end, as should most sequels. It did not exist solely to set up for ROTJ, but had its own part to play. It was not concerned with what happens next, but rather, what happens now. It kept the viewes in the present, the most important part of any movie, while the prequels were constantly leading up to something but never quite got there because the lead-up was so poor. While Empire continued the story of ep 4, and led to the story of ep 6, it also had a very important story that was cohesive enough to stand as a movie - unlike the prequels, whose entire existence rely on the props of the original trilogy. The original movies do not have this support structure, and stand on their own, in their respective slots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSF Posted May 23, 2005 Author Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by RedskinzOwnU As a huge fan of the original trilogy, I was not at all pleased with eps I and II. Nevertheless, I found myself surprisingly optomistic about the prospects for episode III - boy am I disappointed. It was better than I and II, clearly, although thats not saying much, but man it was still bad. There are a lot of flaws with this new trilogy, and fixing a little here and there wouldn't begin to patch things up, they were just done poorly and are fatally flawed. Whatever lucas had, he lost it. Think back to the original trilogy. The plot moves smoothly, and in a logical manner. The humor is used sparingly, and effectively, the special effects are impressive but not imposing, and the characters were real. In this new trilogy, the plot is very deliberate. The story is forced, and lucas is trying to fit the characters into a certain mold, rather than letting some of their personality shine through. Episode I and II exist solely as background for episode III, which subsequently serves as an attempt to prop and explain the real star wars trilogy (4-6). A new hope, empire and jedi are all stand alone movies. They are all part of a continuing story, but each is its own movie, with a beginning, middle, and end. An entire plot that does not rely on any other movies. These new prequels depend too much on the other movies in the series, and never felt like they had 2 legs of their own to stand on. I don't even want to get into the obssessive use of special effects, poor acting, poor writing, and and the repeated "on the nose" dialogue that basically just tells the audience whats going on without letting them see it. Seeing darth vader at the end still acting like a child has ruined a part of star wars for me, and the manner in which the emperor converted anakin to the dark side was so idiotic and disappointing that it has ruined much of the mystique that was previously behind those characters. Both characters now appear to be very weak, rather than both evil and powerful as we had all thought before. And there were some points in the film, crucial points, like when the emperor was converting anakin after samuel jackson's death, serious and important parts, dark parts, that much of the audience, including myself, were just laughing at because they were done so poorly. This is not how star wars should have been. You have elaborated very well why I was so disappointed in Ep. III. I totally agree about the plot not flowing, and the "on the nose" dialogue. I also agree that Anakin's conversion to Vader was very disappointing and has taken away from the mystique of the character. You're right, this is not how Star Wars should have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSF Posted May 23, 2005 Author Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by pez Thanks PCS... I love the the star wars movies (more so the original trilogy, because that is what I grew up with) I am just not so invested into the finer points of sci-fi vs fantasy, etc. I just like to watch a good movie, and enjoy it for what it is. I do think there are alot of people that are trying to pick at the movie to much (that tree wasn't there the first episode... how come padme runs around pregnant, etc). IMO the movies are about Lucas being able to realize a story in his head for us on screen, and us being able to take a few minutes away from reality to enjoy that story... Plain and simple Originally posted by pez Don't get mad!! I am not meaning anything by it!!!, but I feel bad for you... there is enough stress in life, without adding to with intricacies of a fictional movie Originally posted by pez Good man! Tell tell you the truth, some people I have seen around carry it way over to the extreme, like some of the trekkies you see around that interrogate the actors, why a certain little item is just out of whack. I can't wait till one of the star wars actors, quotes William Shatner: "Get a life!" :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: No disrespect Pez, but you have missed the point here. I'm not disappointed in the movie b/c some of the details didn't make sense, I'm disappointed b/c the overall movie making was very poor. This movie wasn't even close to being as good as the originals IMO. I'm surprised how much some of you die hard Star Wars fans seem to have really enjoyed the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pez Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by GSF No disrespect Pez, but you have missed the point here. I'm not disappointed in the movie b/c some of the details didn't make sense, I'm disappointed b/c the overall movie making was very poor. This movie wasn't even close to being as good as the originals IMO. I'm surprised how much some of you die hard Star Wars fans seem to have really enjoyed the movie. sequels/prequels rarely ever live up to originals, that is pretty much to be expected, just because there is that "attachment" to them... particularly for this set of movies. To tell you the truth, I went into these prequels pretty much with the mindset of... yeah it will be nice to see the story play out on screen, but with everyone already knowing the story, there is no suspense, everyone is pretty much using advanced CGI nowadays, so it isn't really "breakthrough" like the originals. I really liked the actors the played in the originals more. But you know what... it is a movie to entertain, not to win an oscar... BTW some of the quotes of mine you posted were meant primarily for the people who WERE nitpicking the details... On a last bit of breath, I can only think of several movies that EVER outmatched their predecessors, so..... well..... there ya go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 GSF, I just think the prequels didn't stand a chance when compared to the originals. I enjoyed them for what they were, which was a way to get more background and history of the Star Wars universe. I do believe the same principle applies to them as it does with most movie sequels. Very rarely are they as well received as the original. Star Wars (the 70s and 80s versions) was so different and original that it would have been nearly impossible for a prequel trilogy to come out 15 years later and stack up. I think they generated a lot of excitement, allowed fans to watch new adventures and connect the dots, and maybe win over a new generation of Star Wars fans. EDIT: Sorry Pez, I must have been posting at the same time...we seem to have the same take on this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pez Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by TD_washingtonredskins EDIT: Sorry Pez, I must have been posting at the same time...we seem to have the same take on this! GReat minds think alike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by pez GReat minds think alike I feel bad for you having to be lumped in with me! :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSF Posted May 23, 2005 Author Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by gridironmike The reaction in the theatre was.....quiet astonishment followed by several kids asking questions. I was even slightly shocked when Anakin was burning, and my son said he dreamed about it last night. He understands it is a movie (nine year old) and knows its not real, but it was a little profound (I know its PG-13). Same reaction in my theatre, followed by kids asking parents if Anakin just killed all of the kids. I think it would have been fine if they didn't have the scene where they showed it on the hologram. Most of the younger kids wouldn't have put it together, but the older fans would have known what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Originally posted by TD_washingtonredskins GSF, I just think the prequels didn't stand a chance when compared to the originals. I enjoyed them for what they were, which was a way to get more background and history of the Star Wars universe. :cheers: :notworthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSF Posted May 23, 2005 Author Share Posted May 23, 2005 I understand your guys' points about taking the movies for what they are. I just don't get why it's assumed that the prequels didn't have a chance of being good as the originals. I had hoped that they would be as good or better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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