EvoSkins Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 If ROTS was for adults, then why all of the toys and marketing towards 5 year olds. Did Lucas think that we would buy the kids all of the toys they see commercials for during childrens tv shows, but then not take them to the movie?. My son (5) had the Darth Vader helmet and light saber before the movie came out, and was very determined to see the movie. Surprisingly, he wasn't scared at all, but the scene when Anakin killed the kids definitely disturbed him. My kids had already seen Episodes I and II on dvd, why make a final episode of the series that kids can't watch. Why all the toys? Because Lucas is a merchandising and marketing whore. He has marketing connections with Cingular Wireless, Diet Pepsi, Kellogs, M&Ms, and Frito-lay. Lucas has made billions of dollars selling his crap to everyone. I bet a large portion of the action figures are bought by collectors. Lucas warned parents by putting a PG-13 rating on the movie with all of the other films being PG. Lucas probably didn't need to include the scene with killing the younglings, but it was included to show the depths that Anakin would go to save Padme from death. Lucas was explicit that ROTS was going to be darker than Empire Strikes Back. The major events of ROTS was the Jedi Purge (Order 66), the fight between Anakin and Obi-Wan, the transformation of Anakin to Vader, the birth of Luke and Leia. The film features multiple dismemberments and a shot of a charred Anakin. Did your kids get disturbed about Mace Windu losing an arm, Dooku losing his head, and Anakin losing both legs and his other arm? There was no easy way to tell the final chapter of Star Wars. You have to show the how deep Anakin had to go and how tragic his story is. It also makes his coming to the rescue of Luke in ROTJ more remarkable. Also, I understand that Anakin was a flawed character and why he had his "fall from grace". I'm saying the transition didn't make sense. He did show great remorse to Padwe when he killed the sandpeople, as he did when saved Palpatine from Windu, causing Windu's death. He was clearly a character still struggling with the good and evil within him when he was suddenly killing children with no apparent remorse what so ever. It just wasn't believable to me. His nightmare foretold of Padme dying during childbirth. He feared life without Padme and would do anything to save her. When Palpatine presented the chance to save Padme but with a catch, Anakin jumped all over it. He did struggle with the reality of going against his training and Jedi teachings, but he was convinced that the only way to save Padme was to let the dark side take over. Vader would do anything Palpatine asked if it meant helping Padme. The Vader from Episodes 4-6 would have no hesitation over killing children if Palpatine asked. As far as the suspense goes, just b/c we knew the outcome of the movie doesn't mean they couldn't have created suspenseful scenes. Why shouldn't the new movies be able to match the originals? It's the same people making them isn't it? ROTS had none of the mounting tension that the original movies had. Just a bunch of guys flying and flipping around with light sabers. I do agree with you. The dialogue was awful in parts and some sections could have been reworked. You have to take the film for what its worth. It was better than Episode 1 and 2 and Lucas learned from his mistakes from the first 2 film. I knew that the die hard fans would like the movie b/c of the answers it provides, but the overall movie making was weak IMO. Just a bunch of slicked up effects with very little substance. Anakin's downfall in the end did trigger some emotion from me, but it wasn't enough to save the movie. The originals had the great effects, but what made them so great was the suspense and athmospheres they created in the various scenes. I just don't get those same feelings in the prequels, except for in the final battle scene between Darth Maul and Quigon and Obe One in Episode I. Yes, the original trilogy had awesome effects because Lucas was on the cutting edge during that time. When doing the new movies, Lucas could do almost anything he wanted becuase of the new technology. A lot of fans of the original trilogy got upset when he went back and changed things in the originals. One of the big disappointments with the new films is that Lucas may have centered too much on the visuals and less on the story. The success of the original trilogy was story and the visuals put it over the top. Everyone knew where ROTS had to leave things. You can't make a perfect movie. You can try to have good fights, good dialogue, good suspense, good story, etc. but sometimes you have to live with what you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateCitySkin Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Originally posted by Die Hard Yeah, but think about it. "The Sith Lord is old and weak. I can defeat him and we can rule the universe and create it as we want". And yet, after 15-20 years (while they were building the Death Star)..... he never did kill the Sith Lord. Why? Annikan joined the Dark Side so he can learn the power to save Padme. Ruling the universe... that was simply never discussed at the dinner table. :geek: Ok. As I understand it the Sith was originally organized like the Jedi order. However, because of the self-centered nature of the Sith internal problems nearly brought about its own destruction and was reorganized to Master and Apprentice. When the Master dies the Apprentice becomes the Master. This revolves around the thought process that the apprentice surpasses the master... I think Anakin understands this is how the Sith works(the emperor sure does)-- I mean remember he did walk into the Jedi temple and slaughter all the little kids. What I am getting at is I think the Sith is an all or nothing situation. (Also note: Lucas always does the half shadow on character's faces whenever they are caught between light and dark side. It's cheesy and he does it in every single one of his movies but its a good indicator on a character's thought process) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ænima Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Originally posted by Die Hard And yet, after 15-20 years (while they were building the Death Star)..... he never did kill the Sith Lord. Why? Because of his injuries he never reached his full potential and never became powerful enough to take down the Emperor. But you could see that he still wanted to when he tried to entice Luke to help him do it in ESB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinthePRF Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Padme ran about a 4.8 forty from her ship to Anakin upon arrival at the Volcano planet, I remember thinking why they let her do that also. The only thing that bothered me a lot in this movie was Palpatine's vocal ping pong from helpless old man to wicked witch of the west. It was way more comical than suspensful right before he got fried. And whatever happened to the big Sifodyus mystery? Lucas swept that cliffhanger under the rug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Originally posted by Die Hard Yeah, but think about it. "The Sith Lord is old and weak. I can defeat him and we can rule the universe and create it as we want". And yet, after 15-20 years (while they were building the Death Star)..... he never did kill the Sith Lord. Why? Annikan joined the Dark Side so he can learn the power to save Padme. Ruling the universe... that was simply never discussed at the dinner table. Not just Padme, but it looked like he realized he was missing his other arm, both of his legs and had basically become Jamaican Jerked Anakin. Once he got into his giant iron lung, he realized he really didn't have any other options out there. He made his bed and now he decided to lie in it. He never reached his full potential and no longer was physically able to do so, for obvious reasons. No way could he take on Sidious, either. One zap of Sith lightning would be more than enough to short out his systems, as evidenced in ROTJ. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSF Posted May 22, 2005 Author Share Posted May 22, 2005 Originally posted by Larry I thought this movie would have been better if they'd had a lower budget. That would've forced them to have fewer climactic battle scenes, and spent more time with the characters. All in all, I was disapointed. I expected this movie to be about character, not about eliminating dangling plot lines. Exactly the way I felt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSF Posted May 22, 2005 Author Share Posted May 22, 2005 Originally posted by EvoSkins Why all the toys? Because Lucas is a merchandising and marketing whore. He has marketing connections with Cingular Wireless, Diet Pepsi, Kellogs, M&Ms, and Frito-lay. Lucas has made billions of dollars selling his crap to everyone. I bet a large portion of the action figures are bought by collectors. Lucas warned parents by putting a PG-13 rating on the movie with all of the other films being PG. Then a marketing whore he shall be. Sure he warned us with the rating. I was very hesitant to take the boy, but the point is that he wasn't taking no for an answer b/c of all of the toys and commercials. To produce 5 and up toys for a 13 and up movie seems a bit hippocritical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Originally posted by ntotoro Not only does he not notice any trace of Anakin at her home, but he doesn't suspect Anakin is the Father? He never asks who the Father is? Does anyone? Ever? Confusing, this is. Ponder on this, I will. Nick at the end, when he is trying to locate anakin after his turn to the dark side, he says to padme "anakin is the father, isn't he? i'm so sorry." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Originally posted by dviands at the end, when he is trying to locate anakin after his turn to the dark side, he says to padme "anakin is the father, isn't he? i'm so sorry." That was what made me think of it. 8-9 months into her pregnancy and no one once asks who the Father is until Obi-Wan does right then and there? It was almost as if even Obi-Wan had no clue until he realized she was defending Anakin. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Originally posted by KevinthePRF And whatever happened to the big Sifodyus mystery? Lucas swept that cliffhanger under the rug. it's not explained, but here's my theory: http://extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1401509#post1401509 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Harris Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Originally posted by GSF I was very hesitant to take the boy, but the point is that he wasn't taking no for an answer b/c of all of the toys and commercials. this is a whole different topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justme Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Originally posted by ntotoro That was what made me think of it. 8-9 months into her pregnancy and no one once asks who the Father is until Obi-Wan does right then and there? It was almost as if even Obi-Wan had no clue until he realized she was defending Anakin. Nick Nick - I had the same series of thoughts when I saw the movie. My way of justifying this oversight was to imagine that her pregnancy was certainly whispered about around Courasant, but given that she is a former queen and a senator nobody called her out on it or made it widely available for judgement in the court of public opinion. I can't imagine yoda and the jedi counsel sitting around gossiping about it. Also, she seemed to be somewhat of a recluse throughout the movie...always holed up in her apartment. She is a lady and maybe everyone is in a group effort to uphold her name. It is hard to imagine a culture, though, where we don't cruicify a public figure under circumstances like these. Maybe there were galatic tabloids...ok I'm rambling now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Originally posted by justme I can't imagine yoda and the jedi counsel sitting around gossiping about it. I don't know. Whenever they weren't fighting and were in the Council Chamber, they always reminded me of a bunch of old women playing pinochle or in a knitting club or something... :laugh: Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justme Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Originally posted by ntotoro I don't know. Whenever they weren't fighting and were in the Council Chamber, they always reminded me of a bunch of old women playing pinochle or in a knitting club or something... :laugh: Nick Yoda: "Padme...a little harlot is she" :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Originally posted by ntotoro That was what made me think of it. 8-9 months into her pregnancy and no one once asks who the Father is until Obi-Wan does right then and there? It was almost as if even Obi-Wan had no clue until he realized she was defending Anakin. Nick Just because she doesn't say, doesn't mean that people haven't wondered or asked. Maybe it's quite acceptable for a woman in that time and place to have children by themselves. Maybe they have artificial insemination. I agree with Pez, why are we picking this movie apart like it's historical fiction?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Originally posted by TD_washingtonredskins Just because she doesn't say, doesn't mean that people haven't wondered or asked. Maybe it's quite acceptable for a woman in that time and place to have children by themselves. Maybe they have artificial insemination. I agree with Pez, why are we picking this movie apart like it's historical fiction?? I agree that people really pick the movie apart big time. So much of what is Star Wars happens off camera. Whether or not people were gossiping about Padme really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. The jedi were much more concerned with who the Sith Lord was rather than who knocked up Padme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard saunders Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 I for one would love for Spielberg to direct 7,8,9... On Ebert/Roeper(sp?) they were saying it wasn't the end of the series....just the end of Lucas directing them. Question, Has Lucas ever said he would allow/not allow another director to make one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Originally posted by richard saunders I for one would love for Spielberg to direct 7,8,9... On Ebert/Roeper(sp?) they were saying it wasn't the end of the series....just the end of Lucas directing them. Question, Has Lucas ever said he would allow/not allow another director to make one? Speilberg is/was actively lobbying to direct episodes 7-9. Speilberg said on camera that he asked Lucas if he could direct one of the PT movies but said that Lucas felt too personally attatched to "Anakin Skywalker's" story. Not sure if you knew, but Lucas did let Speilberg direct some scenes in EP III. And Lucas has already indicated that that he will write the first episodes of the TV spinoff, but will let others take over, I think the table is set for Speilberg to direct the Next three. The only question is what they would be about. I have heard several different things. Originally, the last 3 were supposed to be about a character and his adventures in the 20 years between ep III and IV. That brings up the possibilities of Han and Boba Fett most predominantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 I think the next 3 should be about post-ROTJ Star Wars. Maybe follow a new order of the Jedi or something. It can even be set far enough in the future so you don't have to ruin the original triology characters by having different actors play them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard saunders Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Originally posted by TD_washingtonredskins I think the next 3 should be about post-ROTJ Star Wars. Maybe follow a new order of the Jedi or something. It can even be set far enough in the future so you don't have to ruin the original triology characters by having different actors play them. That's what I think also... If they could get Ford and some of the other original cast back together it would be great. Though Hamill and Fischer would have to seriously work out. They could possibly make it so the emperor some how stayed alive hanging unto a bar a la Luke in ESB....but, that would be too Jason Goes To Hell... Now I'm starting to agree with Code....the people want Vader. People will have the same complaints if they do 7,8,9 as they di PM and ATOC. No villian will ever be as good as Vader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateCitySkin Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Originally posted by codeorama Speilberg is/was actively lobbying to direct episodes 7-9. Speilberg said on camera that he asked Lucas if he could direct one of the PT movies but said that Lucas felt too personally attatched to "Anakin Skywalker's" story. Not sure if you knew, but Lucas did let Speilberg direct some scenes in EP III. And Lucas has already indicated that that he will write the first episodes of the TV spinoff, but will let others take over, I think the table is set for Speilberg to direct the Next three. The only question is what they would be about. I have heard several different things. Originally, the last 3 were supposed to be about a character and his adventures in the 20 years between ep III and IV. That brings up the possibilities of Han and Boba Fett most predominantly. The story goes on about Luke marrying Mara Jade (the emperor's assassin) and han and leia having twin jedi babies. Some crazy old empire general tries to nuke some planets with the prototype death star. The one in IV and III was the second death star. Luke rebuilds the jedi academy and one of his apprentice's goes butt nutsy evil and tries to blow up a whole bunch of galaxies with a ship called the suncrusher that causes suns to go supernova... Luke goes to the darkside under the emperor's mentoring-- He doesn't have much of a choice (the emperor is that bada$$) -- Thats right supposedly the emperor is powerful enough that he has backup bodies and can float around disembodied for an extended period of time. Luke and Mara Jade try and kill the emperor a few more times before they are successful. Anyways any of this stuff is fair game. EDIT: My money would be on the prototype death star, revival of jedi academy, mara jade and emperor's reappearance stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Originally posted by richard saunders Now I'm starting to agree with Code....the people want Vader. People will have the same complaints if they do 7,8,9 as they di PM and ATOC. No villian will ever be as good as Vader. Exactly, there's no reason to do a post ROTJ set of movies, that would be destined to fail. Anakin/Vader's story is over. IMO, the perfect story for 7-9 would be Han's story, except no one could play Han like Harrison Ford and he couldn't play a younger Han. That leaves Boba Fett IMO. He is a huge mystery so that's who I'd bet on. Think about it, in the years between III and IV, the empire is hunting down jedi, Boba Fett has padawan braids hanging from his armor. He hates the jedi, that would be a cool story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Originally posted by ChocolateCitySkin The story goes on about Luke marrying Mara Jade (the emperor's assassin) and han and leia having twin jedi babies. Some crazy old empire general tries to nuke some planets with the prototype death star. The one in IV and III was the second death star. Luke rebuilds the jedi academy and one of his apprentice's goes butt nutsy evil and tries to blow up a whole bunch of galaxies with a ship called the suncrusher that causes suns to go supernova... EDIT: My money would be on the prototype death star, revival of jedi academy, mara jade and emperor's reappearance stories. Luke goes to the darkside under the emperor's mentoring-- He doesn't have much of a choice (the emperor is that bada$$) -- Thats right supposedly the emperor is powerful enough that he has backup bodies and can float around disembodied for an extended period of time. Luke and Mara Jade try and kill the emperor a few more times before they are successful. Anyways any of this stuff is fair game. All that stuff has already been done in the EU. Lucas won't try to remake that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Originally posted by codeorama Exactly, there's no reason to do a post ROTJ set of movies, that would be destined to fail. Anakin/Vader's story is over. IMO, the perfect story for 7-9 would be Han's story, except no one could play Han like Harrison Ford and he couldn't play a younger Han. That leaves Boba Fett IMO. He is a huge mystery so that's who I'd bet on. Think about it, in the years between III and IV, the empire is hunting down jedi, Boba Fett has padawan braids hanging from his armor. He hates the jedi, that would be a cool story. IMO, the problem with doing a 3-part series on Boba Fett is that it is way too much time to develop a character. Star Wars movies have always been so grand and epic, to narrow the focus so greatly onto one character (and a minor one at that) would be more like something they should do in a TV series or something. If they wouldn't do post-ROTJ then they should to Pre Prequels. Set the stage for how the Republic was born or something. These movies never really revolved around Darth Vader until Lucas said they did before TPM. The first 3 movies were good vs. evil and nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChocolateCitySkin Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Originally posted by codeorama All that stuff has already been done in the EU. Lucas won't try to remake that. It's not like he didn't give away the plots of the other three movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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