Kilmer17 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 And I think you should have the right to make that decision. As I should have the right to fire that same person if he worked for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Just an aside to this topic. Have ever met a person who smoked that had really bad breath? I was wondering if a person with smokers breath would be a turnoff to you when you deal with a salesperson? From a business perspective, how would you choose to deal with the employee who's bad breath is affecting their sales performance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by portisizzle Just an aside to this topic. Have ever met a person who smoked that had really bad breath? I was wondering if a person with smokers breath would be a turnoff to you when you deal with a salesperson? From a business perspective, how would you choose to deal with the employee who's bad breath is affecting their sales performance? If his breath is genuinely affecting his performance you'd either have to convince him to chow down on some Eclipse or find someone else, I guess. Or make him wear a mask all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by portisizzle Just an aside to this topic. Have ever met a person who smoked that had really bad breath? I was wondering if a person with smokers breath would be a turnoff to you when you deal with a salesperson? From a business perspective, how would you choose to deal with the employee who's bad breath is affecting their sales performance? Impressions are very important. If someone smells or looks bad, it makes a difference regardless of the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Cigars, chew, pipes. Weight and Looks Color and Sex.. Alcohol Gives you the option to descriminate legally. It's called going back in time and not learning from our mistakes... (Can't have the fat guy cure cancer... he's fat he must be stupid) Then: This just out a little extra FAT makes you healthier... Now what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forbeskin Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 I could see if smoking was illegal, but this is BS! I don't smoke anymore but as long as it's legal you shouldn't be able to dictate what a person can do. We drive cars everyday, that is the most dangerous activity we do, not smoking. What if we skydive or ride motorcycles, do we get penalized for that? It's health care, it's an employee that busts his ass to better your company, the least you can do is fork out money for his health. Cheap ****s! We should be like Canada and have free health care, that would alleviate all this, I'd be more than willing to pay the taxes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by forbeskin I could see if smoking was illegal, but this is BS! I don't smoke anymore but as long as it's legal you shouldn't be able to dictate what a person can do. We drive cars everyday, that is the most dangerous activity we do, not smoking. What if we skydive or ride motorcycles, do we get penalized for that? It's health care, it's an employee that busts his ass to better your company, the least you can do is fork out money for his health. Cheap ****s! We should be like Canada and have free health care, that would alleviate all this, I'd be more than willing to pay the taxes! Regarding skydiving and motorcycles, yes. You can, should and probably will get penalized for that. I can dictate what my employees can and cant do. That's my rights as a business owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 indentured servitude vs. employee It all depends on what your willing to let your boss get away with. If he doenst have anyone working for him he doesnt get to dictate their lifestyles... Homosexuality is risky: no gays work for me. Motocross and Marathon Running can injure you ... Your mole is a little too big.. I only let the pretty perfect people live in my apartment building and work in my company.. It's mine... sad really.. I mean your only 3/5ths of a person due to the way you live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Funny thing is reading this thinking about how many people are on the opposite side when it comes to discriminating against homosexuals. Last time I checked, smokers aren't a protected class. Is smoking now like race and gender? I can't wait to read this. Attleast homosexuality has a sex discrimination aspect to it (in that it has to do with the gender of their partner, but that's a weak arguement). Now some of the same homophobes want smokers to have their jobs protected and be able to sue because they were fired for smoking? Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Well that's exactly right. You can decide who to hire. If those decisions mean your company fails, that's your own fault. But the decision should be the owners. Not the Govts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 One of the main reasons I oppose "homosexual marriage" is the effect it will have on the Health Ins. industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forbeskin Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by Kilmer17 Regarding skydiving and motorcycles, yes. You can, should and probably will get penalized for that. I can dictate what my employees can and cant do. That's my rights as a business owner. That's discrimination! Where's the equal opportunity there? Dictate how one lives his life? They work day in and day out for you and your to cheap to cover their health issues. Great business you own! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 thiebear, Shouldn't a company be able to hire/not hire/fire an employee for anything that impacts their productivity to cost ratio? To do otherwise is to sadle the companies with problems competeing with other companies without the restrictions. Theoretically, a good worker will be able to find another job willing to pay the price/risk for their medical condition. Isn't that how the market is supposed to work? Are we supposed to ignore the fact that there are risks/potential costs to the employer associated with smoking? Should the employer not be able to decide which risks to take? As far as I know, gender and race are the two factors they are not allowed to take. Are there others? Are you advocating a law that says smokers are a protected class too that can't be discriminated against? I've seen the arguements against discriminating against homosexuals...but most of those come down to it is stupid to do so. Is it stupid to discriminate against smokers? Some companies evidently think not. Let's just use some of the advice that was given to people who thought it was wrong for companies to discriminate against homosexuals: don't patronize those businesses if it bothers you. Side note, when did "discriminate" become a bad word? It means to make a distinction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by forbeskin That's discrimination! Where's the equal opportunity there? Dictate how one lives his life? They work day in and day out for you and your to cheap to cover their health issues. Great business you own! No it's not actually. I do provide health ins for all employees and families. I also will not allow a smoker to work for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 EEOC is your only way out... for cigs just claim the disability as its said to be worse than heroin right . I quit 3 years ago.. thank goodness i had human beings give me a break till now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by Kilmer17 One of the main reasons I oppose "homosexual marriage" is the effect it will have on the Health Ins. industry. There you go, tainting a very logical and coherent argument with this nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by Liberty There you go, tainting a very logical and coherent argument with this nonsense. You say nonsense, the health insurance industry says fact. I'll side with facts over opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by gbear thiebear, Shouldn't a company be able to hire/not hire/fire an employee for anything that impacts their productivity to cost ratio? To do otherwise is to sadle the companies with problems competeing with other companies without the restrictions. Theoretically, a good worker will be able to find another job willing to pay the price/risk for their medical condition. Isn't that how the market is supposed to work? Are we supposed to ignore the fact that there are risks/potential costs to the employer associated with smoking? Should the employer not be able to decide which risks to take? As far as I know, gender and race are the two factors they are not allowed to take. Are there others? Are you advocating a law that says smokers are a protected class too that can't be discriminated against? I've seen the arguements against discriminating against homosexuals...but most of those come down to it is stupid to do so. Is it stupid to discriminate against smokers? Some companies evidently think not. Let's just use some of the advice that was given to people who thought it was wrong for companies to discriminate against homosexuals: don't patronize those businesses if it bothers you. Side note, when did "discriminate" become a bad word? It means to make a distinction. True, but shouldnt the employee be deemed good or bad based on their "works"... I smoked from 17 - 34- The Military never believed in "taking a day off" and I was on the Running team for MDW.. Unisys was my next job.. I don't miss a day. Now my current job and I still dont miss a day including Pneumonia i had for 23 days i didnt realize till 17 were up... I've been sick due to my Kid going to Kindergarten 25 times this year.. It's driving me crazy.. Should you not hire someone because their child goes to school and will get the parent sick/thus others in the workforce? Where does it end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 It ends where the business owner decides it ends. Not where the Govt mandates it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Well the Health Insurance industry does not decide whether or not people in the US will get equal protection under the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by Liberty Well the Health Insurance industry does not decide whether or not people in the US will get equal protection under the law. Different topic. But their is no equal protection violation. A gay man can marry a woman just the same as a straight man can. At the same time, a straight man cannot marry another man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forbeskin Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Then I hope the prospective employees & patrons choose not to work and utilize services of employers like you , thus creating hardships for all the hardheaded employers who thought they could save a dime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by forbeskin Then I hope the prospective employees & patrons choose not to work and utilize services of employers like you , thus creating hardships for all the hardheaded employers who thought they could save a dime. Isnt the free market a wonderful thing? BTW, I've saved more than a dime by keeping my health ins. costs low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfitzo53 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by Kilmer17 Isnt the free market a wonderful thing? BTW, I've saved more than a dime by keeping my health ins. costs low. Just out of curiousity Kilmer, what sort of business do you run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Ironically, I own an Insurance Agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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