Prosperity Posted May 12, 2005 Author Share Posted May 12, 2005 So they have really brain washed you haven't they? Or maybe it is because you were on of the people that hired all of the students gullible enough to believe anything they say. I was not so sure yesterday, but the more I think about this the more obvious it is that Vector/Cutco is nothing but a scam. All they do is hire a bunch of kids and get them to sell the knives to their parents. The whole thing is BS, I will make sure everyone I know will never fall for that crap, or buy their expensive wonder knives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyansRangers Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by Liberty Those guys said it isn't door to door or telemarketing, even though that is exactly what they want people do. Its not telemarketing or door - door is sales based on who you know and who they know refferals. It really doesnt matter it seems like you wouldn't want the job anyway. Its true the job isnt going to pay everyone well just the ones who do it right... But to do that you have to enjoy sales.. If you dont enjoy selling things to people than you wont make any money and you will hate the job... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by Liberty So they have really brain washed you haven't they? Or maybe it is because you were on of the people that hired all of the students gullible enough to believe anything they say. I was not so sure yesterday, but the more I think about this the more obvious it is that Vector/Cutco is nothing but a scam. All they do is hire a bunch of kids and get them to sell the knives to their parents. The whole thing is BS, I will make sure everyone I know will never fall for that crap, or buy their expensive wonder knives. I'm not brainwashed, everything I and RyansRangers have stated here is fact. Read what I've said about not liking to fake enthusiasm to hire everyone who walks in the door. I def have problems with the company on some levels, but the rep level isn't one at all. But it must be nice to have a bunch of slam sites do your thinking for you. I said it before, and I'll say it again. People don't sell that much cause they get to two or three thousand in sales and realize it's not for them. Its not like the sales are illegally made. You go to a house, you sell the knives, get references, bring the order form to the office which gets mailed to the factory, you get paid, and the customer gets their knives. If you can show me the scam in that process, feel free. Thats how I made money with the company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 It's not a scam. But then again, neither is selling Amway. (emphasis on the selling aspect) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonJeremy Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by Liberty Either way I would feel dirty selling things that I know people neither need nor want. So much for my career in marketing/sales. Don't give up a career in marketing/sales because you didn't like Cutco. As I mentioned earlier, I turned them down and you know what? I still have managed to have a successful career in a position that is more or less outside sales. Somehow, despite missing a valuable opportunity at Vector Marketing I have closed over a $150 million in Real Estate loans over the last 5 years. At .5% to .6% commision per loan amount, do the math... What I have learned about sales is that you have to believe in what you are doing. If you don't believe in selling knives to friends and family then you made the right choice.. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by RonJeremy Don't give up a career in marketing/sales because you didn't like Cutco. As I mentioned earlier, I turned them down and you know what? I still have managed to have a successful career in a position that is more or less outside sales. Somehow, despite missing a valuable opportunity at Vector Marketing I have closed over a $150 million in Real Estate loans over the last 5 years. At .5% to .6% commision per loan amount, do the math... What I have learned about sales is that you have to believe in what you are doing. If you don't believe in selling knives to friends and family then you made the right choice.. :2cents: Agreed. Just cause its not for everyone doesn't mean you have to badmouth it and say it's a scam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted May 12, 2005 Author Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff Agreed. Just cause its not for everyone doesn't mean you have to badmouth it and say it's a scam. guess we're going to have to agree to to disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Just curious. Anyone recognize the following quote? You can get everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 The man, the myth, the legend. Zig Zigler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Figured you'd have gotten it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyansRangers Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by RonJeremy Don't give up a career in marketing/sales because you didn't like Cutco. As I mentioned earlier, I turned them down and you know what? I still have managed to have a successful career in a position that is more or less outside sales. Somehow, despite missing a valuable opportunity at Vector Marketing I have closed over a $150 million in Real Estate loans over the last 5 years. At .5% to .6% commision per loan amount, do the math... What I have learned about sales is that you have to believe in what you are doing. If you don't believe in selling knives to friends and family then you made the right choice.. :2cents: you couldnt be more right...if you dont believe in it you cant sell it customers will see right through you....... CUTCO/ VECTOR is not for everybody... but you cant knock something that people have made honest careers out of. ITs not a scam because there is not way to negotiate prices or anything its a simple presentation and ptich and yes or no.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonsofwashington Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 If you have a country club near by become a lifeguard who does private swim lessons on the side. I'm telling you make good money, hang out outside all day, and get close with some of the betties hangin out poolside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 its a simple presentation and ptich and yes or no.. And there's the reason why people either make it in sales or they don't. They can't deal with hearing that first "No." They hear that & it registers. They haven't trained themselves to not hear that first "NO". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted May 12, 2005 Author Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by TK-IV II I And there's the reason why people either make it in sales or they don't. They can't deal with hearing that first "No." They hear that & it registers. They haven't trained themselves to not hear that first "NO". It is hard to sell anything you wouldn't want yourself, and it is especially hard to convince yourself that you would ever want a 900 knife set. You know the person doesn't want it. I can tell no one wants to spend $900 on knives. If I do get people to buy it it is because I pressured them into doing in it, not because they actually want the knives. That is my biggest problem with the marketing sector. Personally I could not do that with a clear conscience, not to a person that I am talking to. Maybe if I was selling iPods, I would enjoy the job, but iPods sell themselves, expensive ass knives don't. But all this is besides the point, this was not the main reason I have a beef with Vector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by Liberty It is hard to sell anything you wouldn't want yourself, and it is especially hard to convince yourself that you would ever want a 900 knife set. You know the person doesn't want it. I can tell no one wants to spend $900 on knives. If I do get people to buy it it is because I pressured them into doing in it, not because they actually want the knives. That is my biggest problem with the marketing sector. Personally I could not do that with a clear conscience, not to a person that I am talking to. Maybe if I was selling iPods, I would enjoy the job, but iPods sell themselves, expensive ass knives don't. But all this is besides the point, this was not the main reason I have a beef with Vector. You have a lot to learn, my friend. People like quality things because they know if they buy something that is well made they won't have to replace it. It's why you'd buy a pair of Nike's or New Balances over a pair of crappy running shoes that would fall apart from Payless. Knives are no different. And you, being 18, place your priorities elsewhere now. You can justify spending a few hundred bucks on an iPod, but you can't justify spending 80 bucks on a knife, and rightfully so. Peoples needs are different and right now, I'm assuming you don't cook a lot, therefore you wouldn't see the value in a well made knife. A homeowner or a housewife that cooks a lot values a good knife. Go to Williams and Sonoma or Cheseapeake knife and tool and you'll see sets that are in the hundreds, it's not just something that an awful scam-like company would do. And, in fact, I'm pretty sure Zig Ziglar sold Cutco. I know Norman Brinker (owner of Chili's, On the Border, Romano's, Corner Bakery to name a few) did. He talks about the benefits of it in his book "On the Brink". So did Rod Smith, WR for the Broncos. Walter Payton spoke at Vector Conferences back in the late 80's. Think these people would associate themselves with a "scam?" probably not. Oh, and the parent for the Cutco company also makes something called K-Bar. You might also know them as the military knives that our troops in Iraq are using. They're made in the same factory. Look, think it's a scam all you want, but the fact is, it's not. And like I said before, just because you don't like it doesn't mean you have to badmouth it and say it's a scam, but apparently you're too immature to grasp that fact. Haven't your parents taught you that it's not nice to disrespect the way someone makes money as long as it's honest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted May 12, 2005 Author Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff Look, think it's a scam all you want, but the fact is, it's not. And like I said before, just because you don't like it doesn't mean you have to badmouth it and say it's a scam, but apparently you're too immature to grasp that fact. Haven't your parents taught you that it's not nice to disrespect the way someone makes money as long as it's honest? First of all, my mom does a lot of cooking and she agreed, $900 for a set of knives is BS no matter how you cut it (pun not intended) Cutco knives may be high quality (they are still not a good deal) my main problem is with this BS comapany Vector. Honest? You use the word very loosely my friend. There is evidence that they are a scam. There is documented evidence of the lies they say about the product and also their unethical practices (not paying for training, paying for your own sample knives, intentionally vague ads, , many lawsuites filed against them, massive anecdotal evidence showing kids earned no money or lost money) but what pissed me off was the whole interview process. THEY SAID IT WAS NOT TELEMARKETING OR DOOR TO DOOR -in fact it is, you have to BS references and call and try to get those people to. You will be calling people an trying to convince them that . Just because the fishing and the sale don't happen in the same place doesn't mean it isn't telemarketing or door to door. YOu fish for the suckers on the phone, then you go to their door and sell the overly expensive knives. -someone else here said that they get lists from people that wanted to win contests, I am not sure on that, but it is plausible. THEY MAKE UP STATISTICS -an average of $200 in sales? That is what the manager says, I guess the guy did not count the number of $0 no sales. -an average of 2 refs per appointment? The guy made it seem like there would be an exponential growth of appointments, when in fact all evidence points to a dying down of sales once family connections are exhausted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 As I said I did Cutco before college And I really didn't do well at all, tried my best but it wasn't in the cards for me. I did learn a lot though, and I also did swear to myself I would never do anything sales realted again. But as I said I learned a lot and made some friends out of it. Well I ended up 2 years later signing up for one of those college painting companies. I was very very skeptical going into it because I thought it was similar to Cutco and I wouldn't make a dime. After looking at the numbers and the system I jumped into head first and have made 10 times the money I would have at Vector. So, just because you don't think Vector is for you, doesn't mean sales and marketing is for you. Doing what I do now I made over 50k last summer and have helped out my parents a ton. And yeah I really won't badmouth Vector. I think what they do is ok, I just wish the initial interview was more informative and you have a chance to speak to other reps about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Spiff - Zig sold cookware for the Wearever Aluminum Company. Liberty - I mention the call lists. I took that directly from Superior Windows - a Thermal dealer for WV, VA, & NC that I used to work for. That's exatly where a good chunk of there leads started from. Their telemarketing dept. would them call off of those lists & attempt to set an appointment for a salesperson to then go out & pitch them. The demo/pitch for a patio room addition to a home was no less then 3 1/2 hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Vet Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Interesting read....especially for someone that has been in outside sales & sales management since I graduated from college back in '94. I love how non-salespeople have this slimeball view of salespeople. It is a necessary "evil" and there are many of us that are not all psycho sales seminar robots. Frankly, if someone came in for an interview espousing all that rote nonsense - I'd be very wary of hiring them. There are many of us that have been fairly successful in establishing new customers/territories, building relationships, meeting their needs, treating them fairly and equitably, allowing them to make money while we earn our money by fulfilling their needs, servicing, advising and becoming a trustworthy resource to them. Sure it takes a little while, but it is sure worth it. My customers do not ask for pricing anymore - they know they will be treated fairly and equitably. My customers have a question about something related to the industry I sell into.....one of the first things they think of is.....I'll call GV and see if he sells that or knows where I can get that......That's what you want....the calls come at 6:00 AM - 8:00PM .....they know if you don't know - you'll find out.......most importantly - they call - almost reflexively.... Competitor stops by one of my customers....my guys will pump them for information and call me w/ the info/pricing. A solid relationship will afford the salesperson last look on a competitive pricing situation. I even had one of my best customers apologize to me yesterday for his business being off a bit....but he lost a few of his guys and hopes to be back up to speed in the next couple of months......btw - how's your daughter...... Selling what you believe in is important for me. If I don't believe in what I sell...and this has happened 1 time in my career (the only time I've not been promoted).....my sales are reflective of the situation....... Forgive me....I'm a bit preachy.....I was riding w/ one of my newer sales guys today and am in "that" mode. If any of you young guys are considering sales as a career.......Sales is a great job. Definitely not for everyone. Someone earlier in this thread mentioned the word "no" and how if you have a difficult time handling it.....sales is not for you. I would also offer the advice.....if you are in sales and you cannot use the word "no" with your customers - sales is not for you. I'm stunned to see people talk their ways out of sales (if they would just shut up).......or the salespeople that are afraid to tell their customer "no". Frankly, "no" is my favorite answer. ...and btw - My cousin sold Cutco and we still make fun of him to this day about it. However, I've heard the knives are marvelous.....and as a huge cook - I'd always love to have better knives. .....and please watch Glengary Glen Ross - terrific movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by Grumpy Vet There are many of us that have been fairly successful in establishing new customers/territories, building relationships, meeting their needs, treating them fairly and equitably, allowing them to make money while we earn our money by fulfilling their needs, servicing, advising and becoming a trustworthy resource to them. Sure it takes a little while, but it is sure worth it. Ding! Originally posted by Grumpy Vet My customers do not ask for pricing anymore - they know they will be treated fairly and equitably. My customers have a question about something related to the industry I sell into.....one of the first things they think of is.....I'll call GV and see if he sells that or knows where I can get that......That's what you want....the calls come at 6:00 AM - 8:00PM .....they know if you don't know - you'll find out.......most importantly - they call - almost reflexively.... You've got it down to a science. I've worked at some places where's that's refered to as a "trained customer". I tend to see it as you've earned your customer's trust & they reward you for it wit repeat buisness &/or with referals. Originally posted by Grumpy Vet Competitor stops by one of my customers....my guys will pump them for information and call me w/ the info/pricing. A solid relationship will afford the salesperson last look on a competitive pricing situation. I even had one of my best customers apologize to me yesterday for his business being off a bit....but he lost a few of his guys and hopes to be back up to speed in the next couple of months......btw - how's your daughter...... Again, you've got it down to a science. Awesome job to get your customers to be loyal enough to get the competition's info for you. Originally posted by Grumpy Vet Selling what you believe in is important for me. If I don't believe in what I sell...and this has happened 1 time in my career (the only time I've not been promoted).....my sales are reflective of the situation....... Same here. I never believed in the 3 1/2 hour demo for ThermalGuard. I still don't. That wasn't the reason I quit, however. You ever try being married & driving all over the entire state of VA in a day? Without a car allowance? And getting home at 3-4 AM only ti have to be back in the office at 10 AM to do it all over? Originally posted by Grumpy Vet Forgive me....I'm a bit preachy.....I was riding w/ one of my newer sales guys today and am in "that" mode. If any of you young guys are considering sales as a career.......Sales is a great job. Definitely not for everyone. Someone earlier in this thread mentioned the word "no" and how if you have a difficult time handling it.....sales is not for you. I would also offer the advice.....if you are in sales and you cannot use the word "no" with your customers - sales is not for you. I'm stunned to see people talk their ways out of sales (if they would just shut up).......or the salespeople that are afraid to tell their customer "no". Frankly, "no" is my favorite answer. You're right. Sales isn't for everyone. I mentioned the word "no". I tend to look at hearing that as the first "Yes". There shouldn't be anyone here reading that , that's in sales, that doesn't know what means. If there is, I'll recommend a book to you. I've seen ALOT of people talk themselves out of a sale just because they don't know when to STFU. I also have no problem telling a customer "No". Alot of times they need to hear that. Of course, I also work in financing sales where the price is based on a person's credit history & their ability to repay the loan. It never fails, several times a week I'll have someone that wants product that say would cost them $7,000.00 & they've been approved for a loan in the amount of $4,000.00 Does that mean we can't do buisness? Heck no. That does mean I have to tell them if they don't have the difference of $3,000.00 to pay upfront, then no they're nopt getting what they looked at . It doesn't mean I don't have product closer to their approved price range. Originally posted by Grumpy Vet .....and please watch Glengary Glen Ross - terrific movie. :notworthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 i did something similar..the company was called "cutco". i made about 6k over 2 summers working. i made my money selling to people i cut grass for and couple owned a restaurant and motel. then one day i went to the office that i worked out of and it was gone. :whoknows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by Liberty There is documented evidence of the lies they say about the product and also their unethical practices (not paying for training, paying for your own sample knives, intentionally vague ads, , many lawsuites filed against them, massive anecdotal evidence showing kids earned no money or lost money) but what pissed me off was the whole interview process. First of all, they tell you in the interview training isn't paid for. Second, you do pay for your sample set, which you can return at the end of your experience with Vector. Both of these things SHOULD HAVE been covered in your interview. Vague ads? As soon as the receptionst picks up the phone or you go to the website, you can't NOT know that it's vector. As far as lawsuits, I don't know much about them, they never concerned me. And I've met a bunch of kids who haven't made money, all because they didn't work and expected things to fall in their lap. Losing money? Not sure how, maybe because they were too dumb to return the sample set and get the deposit back. Originally posted by Liberty THEY SAID IT WAS NOT TELEMARKETING OR DOOR TO DOOR -in fact it is, you have to BS references and call and try to get those people to. You will be calling people an trying to convince them that . Just because the fishing and the sale don't happen in the same place doesn't mean it isn't telemarketing or door to door. YOu fish for the suckers on the phone, then you go to their door and sell the overly expensive knives. -someone else here said that they get lists from people that wanted to win contests, I am not sure on that, but it is plausible. As one of the previous posters said, the phone has to be used in sales, simply put. We can agree to disagree here on what the definition of "telemarketing" and "door to door" is. But the story here is totally offbase, nonetheless. The customer that you are with calls a friend and asks them if they'd be willing to take a look at the demo. If they say yes, you can call them. If no, you can't call them. It's that simple. Where's the scam? Originally posted by Liberty THEY MAKE UP STATISTICS -an average of $200 in sales? That is what the manager says, I guess the guy did not count the number of $0 no sales. -an average of 2 refs per appointment? The guy made it seem like there would be an exponential growth of appointments, when in fact all evidence points to a dying down of sales once family connections are exhausted. More ignorance. Yes, the sales average companywide is around $200. If you didn't sell anything, how can you count it as a sale? What this donkey is talking about is something called CLOSING RATIO, the amount of sales you make divded by the number of demos you do. 6/10 is 60%, close to what the companies ratio is. Again, this is something you would have learned in the interview. Closing ration is about 60%, average order is around $200. They actually write it down for you. And if you DO follow the program and work hard, you won't have a problem getting references. I didn't sell 46,000 by not getting references. And yes, sales aren't for everyone, but sooner or later everyone sells something, and eventually everyone WILL have to sell themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 And glengarry is awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff And glengarry is awesome! http://www.gotwavs.com/cgi-bin/wavs.cgi?Glengarry_Glen_Ross=yourfired.wav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpy Vet Posted May 12, 2005 Share Posted May 12, 2005 You know why I like Spaceman Spiff? I opened the door in my post......and he threw it open like a pissed off Swat Team member raiding a child porn den......Nice job SS - we'll chat over PM, that you initiated, about some knives. I was curious if anyone would pick up on that. You did. I won't pay 900 bucks for knives - but I may be interested in a couple knives..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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