Califan007 The Constipated Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Originally posted by ibrahim Are you all smart at all? Werent you the same people that created about a zillion and one words for how bad Brunell is? If Ramsey ever went down this season or next season, or even plays bad, guess who our QB would have been? BRUNELL! It'll STILL be Brunell this upcoming season...Campbell has no shot of coming in and playing unless both Ramsey AND Brunell are in a car accident together. And Brunell was most likely gone after this season anyway when releasing him wouldn't have the disastrous cap ramifications... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 For his own reasons, Gibbs decided Campbell was worth the price he paid for him .... assuming of course he doesn't trade him tomorrow or something. Those reasons, at this point, are known only to Gibbs and a handful of people in the room with him. Among those reasons, quite possibly, are all manner of possiblities ... concerns over Brunell as a viable backup in 2005, concerns over Ramsey beyond 2005, concerns over durability in either or both, the belief that Campbell, having met him and worked him out, might actually be good enough in this system that he was worth the price paid, even if his selection DOES open the door for experts like Califan007 and Flowtrain to suggest he's a doddering fool ... and on and on and on. Trying to figure all the possible reasons, while compelling, is also in the end kind of a useless exercise. At least until Gibbs invites me into the room with him and let's me see the whole picture from the inside ... the only place the REAL reasons are known at this point. I know ... being a blind, naive apologist sporting Elton John-like burgundy and gold glasses, I'm simply choosing to believe that in his advanced dodderhood, Joe Gibbs thinks he has a pretty good idea in mind of why he'd risk perpetuating that impression of him by paying the price he did for this kid. Had Steve Spurrier still been here and made this pick, I admit I might have lain awake an extra hour or so tonight. That Joe Gibbs made it, quite honestly, has me most intrigued to watch his plan play out over the next couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibrahim Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Originally posted by Om For his own reasons, Gibbs decided Campbell was worth the price he paid for him. Those reasons, at this point, are known only to Gibbs and a handful of people in the room with him. Among those reasons, quite possibly, are all manner of possiblities ... concerns over Brunell as a viable backup in 2005, concerns over Ramsey beyond[]/i] 2005, concerns over durability in either or both, the belief that Campbell, having met him and worked him out, might actually be good enough in this system that he was worth the price paid, even if his selection DOES open the door for experts like Califan007 and Flowtrain to suggest he's a doddering fool ... and on and on and on. I know ... being a blind, naive apologist sporting Elton John-like burgundy and gold glasses, I'm simply choosing to believe that in his advanced dodderhood, Joe Gibbs thinks he has a pretty good idea in mind of why he'd risk perpetuating that impression of him by paying the price he did for this kid. Had Steve Spurrier still been here and made this pick, I admit I might have lain awake an extra hour or so tonight. That Joe Gibbs made it, quite honestly, has me most intrigued to watch his plan play out over the next couple of years. my sentiments exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzanne4sure Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 At first I was upset about drafting Campbell because I am an ardent Ramsey fan. Then I thought of the alternatives if Ramsey goes down and I was encouraged. I personally believe Gibb's likes Ramsey or he would have been gone as soon as the season ended. The dead weight is Brunell. We have no idea what Hasselbeck can do if given a chance to play consistently, but we know Brunell is a cap casuality. Hasselbeck works well in a 3rd position. There are the Ramsey fans and the detractors. Gibbs is a man of his word. Ramsey is the starter. Let's just see how he does conditioned with a decent OL, and experienced receivers. New England has 0 flashy receivers and have won how many SB's over the past 4 years??? If Ramsey does not perform what are the options??? It was good pick. If Ramsey does well, we have a solid second. If Ramsey turns out to be the proverbial "goat"..we have Campbell, groomed by Gibbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjbrown Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Next year, Brunell is gone, unless we cannot sign Ramsey (like Smoot, or Pierce). We need a Good backup, it will either be Campbell or Ramsey. If they cannot pay Ramsey o.k. we have a new starter and Brunell stays. If we do not pickup Cambell now, next year we draft (if we had kept the pick) at say 20 and try to get a good qb. Ramsey might be gone and Brunell may be no good. So we have a rookie qb, and Hassleback - good move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Originally posted by Om For his own reasons, Gibbs decided Campbell was worth the price he paid for him .... assuming of course he doesn't trade him tomorrow or something. Those reasons, at this point, are known only to Gibbs and a handful of people in the room with him. Among those reasons, quite possibly, are all manner of possiblities ... concerns over Brunell as a viable backup in 2005, concerns over Ramsey beyond 2005, concerns over durability in either or both, the belief that Campbell, having met him and worked him out, might actually be good enough in this system that he was worth the price paid, even if his selection DOES open the door for experts like Califan007 and Flowtrain to suggest he's a doddering fool ... and on and on and on. Trying to figure all the possible reasons, while compelling, is also in the end kind of a useless exercise. At least until Gibbs invites me into the room with him and let's me see the whole picture from the inside ... the only place the REAL reasons are known at this point. I know ... being a blind, naive apologist sporting Elton John-like burgundy and gold glasses, I'm simply choosing to believe that in his advanced dodderhood, Joe Gibbs thinks he has a pretty good idea in mind of why he'd risk perpetuating that impression of him by paying the price he did for this kid. Had Steve Spurrier still been here and made this pick, I admit I might have lain awake an extra hour or so tonight. That Joe Gibbs made it, quite honestly, has me most intrigued to watch his plan play out over the next couple of years. Last offseason, many Skins fans weren't liking the pickup of Brunell because it seemed to point to Gibbs not trusting Ramsey enough to go into the season with him as starter...many wanted Gibbs to put some faith in Ramsey and use the draft pick and cap dollars it cost to get Brunell on other areas of need. Then, when Brunell turned into a horror show each sunday, many fans were once again saying Gibbs should have faith in Ramsey, instead of letting that fiasco of an offense continue on week after week...that if the Skins were gonna stink it up on offense, at least that time could be used having Ramsey learning on the job, instead of having Brunell try to regain his form. Now, with a 1st, 3rd and 4th traded for the #25 pick in the draft, most of those same fans were yet again saying Gibbs should have faith in Ramsey enough to use that newly aquired 1st round pick on something other than yet another QB...so many options and scenarios that could have been gained from having that extra 1st rounder. Sorry, but too many things make it impossible to tell ourselves Gibbs does indeed have faith in Ramsey, and that none of these moves should say otherwise, as Gibbs keeps saying in the media. Is Campbell worth the #25 pick in the draft?...Wouldn't doubt it at all. Were the Skins in such dire straights in the QB department that they needed to jump thru all the hoops they did just to get him?...There's no way it can be said there's no intelligent argument that they weren't, and only fools such as myself who "must think they know more than Gibbs" would want to argue that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Is a Gardner or Brunell trade still a possibility? I havnt been paying attention to the other teams lately, but are there any players that are holding out that need QB or WR and can reciprocate with picks this year, next year or even players? either way, I am not going to cry that my Redskin Fandom is over due to today's Dreaft. I know about as much about player evaluations and potential sighting as I do about quantum physics. I will give our FO the benefit of the doubt until we see at least 2 more losing seasons. I feel firmly that we will see strong improvement in our team's overall performance this year with even the players we have right this moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsRback04 Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Om, I am as willing as the next Gibbs fan to jump on the spear. But this entire day one has a peculiar smell to it, irregardless of the Williams debacle (my opinion). Joe is and always will be the man...but 'splain this draft day in terms that account not only for the usual considerations but how we got here. It cannot be done in any reasonable fashion. I can jump through any number of hoops and accomplish this but is that proper? Personal favorites (which always exist on draft day) aside, Williams being passed over aside, what reasonably accounts for this #25 pick (which necessitated the #9...Rogers at that slot?) considering all that we know and all that we have heard from the same Joe Gibbs? I can understand firing a shot across the bow of Brunell and Hasselbeck. But Gibbs has told us repeatedly his thoughts on MB. And he has repeatedly, ad nauseum, told us his take on PR. Now is he to be believed or not? He seems to be a man at war with himself. Perhaps it would be better to simply clear the air and bite the bullet in terms of personnel. We did it with Coles. All I ask for is simple honesty and clarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrockster21 Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Originally posted by SkinsRback04 It's even worse. We didn't miss out on Williams...we walked right by. There is a difference. Now, we are not the FO, never will be...but this one is hard to swallow considering all the CB talent further down the board. This was a you get one, I get one thing from the gitgo. And because JG wanted that one, we elevated Rogers to the #9. Does anyone on the board, I mean even the most loyal and diehard fans of the Redskins and JG really think this is the way to manage this draft? Regardless of the potential, Mike Williams is still a question mark. Will he turn into a dominating #1 or 2 receiver? Or will he settle into the role of possesion receiver for the rest of his career? Not to mention that he took a year off of football. And he did it to get money instead of staying in school, just the kind of player that Gibbs probably wants to avoid. With Rogers, the consensus "saftest" pick in the draft, we get a solid young corner who can go for big plays with not that much worry because he's got big #36 in the backfield... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Originally posted by cjbrown Next year, Brunell is gone, unless we cannot sign Ramsey (like Smoot, or Pierce). We need a Good backup, it will either be Campbell or Ramsey. If they cannot pay Ramsey o.k. we have a new starter and Brunell stays. If we do not pickup Cambell now, next year we draft (if we had kept the pick) at say 20 and try to get a good qb. Ramsey might be gone and Brunell may be no good. So we have a rookie qb, and Hassleback - good move. But what if Ramsey stays???...Is a longterm backup QB worth everything the Skins gave up to aquire Campbell? And what about when Campbell's able to become a FA??...If he's remained a backup all this time, don't you think he's gonna want a chance to be a starter somewhere instead??...If Ramsey breaks out and resign with the Skins, Campbell will definitely NOT resign when the Skins when it's his turn...he won't sit idly by hoping he gets a chance to start when he's 28 or so... This move only makes sense if the Skins aren't seriously considering Ramsey in their future plans...he's most definitely NOT an insurance policy...or a longterm backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrockster21 Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Originally posted by Om 2) screw the "QB controversy." The team just not only added "depth" at the most crucial position in football, but created competition at the position AND removed the possibility that should Ramsey go down in week 3, we have no other options there but Brunell and Hasselbeck. Yah, that bye-week has a MEAN pass-rush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrockster21 Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Originally posted by TheLongshot Guess who still is going to start if Ramsay goes down. BRUNELL! Sorry, but Gibbs history is to have guys ride the bench, and he still has some belief in Brunell, who will be the first off the bench if Ramsay goes down. Jason Ramsey Ramsey Ramsey Ramsey Ramsey Ramsey Ramsey Ramsey Ramsey Sorry...pet peeve. Know how to spell the Skins starting QB's name, for crying out loud!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newera Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 It's obvious, the brass is not totally sold on Ramsey and drafted someone that has a higher upside -- in their opinion. Ramsey lacks the pocket presence intangible that is so needed in the game today and needs a lot of things right in order to be successful. I did find the draft odd, the Redskins invariably always draft somene I don't want them to draft. So nothing else is new. They probably feel they have the phenon propsect to groom. Equally talented with his arm as with his feet. As I settle down. Quarterback is the most important position in football, and if you have a chance to upgrade the position, I'm all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Califan007, The recurrent theme in your post above is that the fans keep thinking Gibbs should have more faith in Ramsey. So, is it your considered opinion that said fans are in a better position to judge what Ramsey is or is not for this team than Gibbs? If so, I'll keep saying what I've said in several other threads the last couple of days: I respectfully opt to side with the judgement of Joe Gibbs. Don't misunderstand---I am not saying Gibbs might, despite the advantages he has of actually, you know, working with the guy every day ... not be making a mistake by drafting another QB. What I am saying is something he's seen in his present QB situation made him decide to invest what he has in young Jason Campbell. What does it mean for Ramsey? And when will we know? Good questions. My answer as of today ... I don't know. And none of the rest of us do either. Being agnostic ain't easy sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tn_skin_fan_21 Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 mw is who we should of got, no matter the qb .. who are they gonna pass 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Originally posted by SkinsRback04 Om, I am as willing as the next Gibbs fan to jump on the spear. But this entire day one has a peculiar smell to it, irregardless of the Williams debacle (my opinion). Joe is and always will be the man...but 'splain this draft day in terms that account not only for the usual considerations but how we got here. It cannot be done in any reasonable fashion. I can jump through any number of hoops and accomplish this but is that proper? Personal favorites (which always exist on draft day) aside, Williams being passed over aside, what reasonably accounts for this #25 pick (which necessitated the #9...Rogers at that slot?) considering all that we know and all that we have heard from the same Joe Gibbs? I can understand firing a shot across the bow of Brunell and Hasselbeck. But Gibbs has told us repeatedly his thoughts on MB. And he has repeatedly, ad nauseum, told us his take on PR. Now is he to be believed or not? He seems to be a man at war with himself. Perhaps it would be better to simply clear the air and bite the bullet in terms of personnel. We did it with Coles. All I ask for is simple honesty and clarity. See my post above, SRB. You want answers to questions you and I aren't even remotely in position to process in any meaningful way right now. Frustrating? Sure. But not to the point, for me anyway, where I'm compelled to pull my remaining hair out over or postulate all manner of explanations through assumptions. Gibbs will tell us everything he feels he can that won't compromise his teams' best interests. Which means, for instance, that if he DOES harbor concerns over Ramsey, he's sure as heck not gonna come out in the press and spell them out for us. He's got a locker room to maintain and a QB's confidence to consider. I know its anathema to the whole MB experience to constantly suggest that all this wild conjecture and rush to "figure out" the team's thinking---both in the short run and long---but the fact is I don't personally quite "get" why so many of us seem to feel the need to know what it all means RIGHT THIS MINUTE. It just don't work that way, man. Dunno about anybody else, but I love the whole process of watching this man work. Maybe part of that is simply my having been old enought the first time around to fully appreciate his genius ... and I'm even prepared to admit that may blind me to some small extent ... but I don't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cdowwe Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 I was hoping for Williams at 9, but I knew we needed a CB. Im still kinda pissed about the 25 pick tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsRback04 Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Om, Thanks for the reply. Faith and Patience are true virtues and can be easily tested. We will see what the future brings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Hog Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Originally posted by FuriousOne2K very bad draft for what we could have had. i bet Rodgers would've been there at #25. Now we suck at WR. Rodgers would not have been there at 25. But I do wish we would have selected a WR rather than at QB. I'm not too upset...at least we didn't take the 2 #1 picks and move up to get Edwards, or anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 and they wonder why I drink. That's all I have to say about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Originally posted by Om Califan007, The recurrent theme in your post above is that the fans keep thinking Gibbs should have more faith in Ramsey. So, is it your considered opinion that said fans are in a better position to judge what Ramsey is or is not for this team than Gibbs? So far, if we're being intellectually honest, the evidence in this matter is on the fans' side, unfortunately... But my main point when it comes to fans and their opinions on this matter, is that there really is a valid and logical argument to be made against the Skins aquiring Campbell, especially the way they did...it's not all merely fan arrogance and foolishness... Don't misunderstand---I am not saying Gibbs might, despite the advantages he has of actually, you know, working with the guy every day ... not be making a mistake by drafting another QB. What I am saying is something he's seen in his present QB situation made him decide to invest what he has in young Jason Campbell. But this was a rather expensive "investment"...it's like taking your entire savings and putting it in a certain stock. You don't do that if your only hope is that somewhere long down the road it will eventually pay dividends, because in the meantime you have nothing in your savings account, and can't absorb an immediate, if temporary, drop in the stock value. No, when you put up that much "money", you're wanting a rather quick return on your investment...Again, if the Skins had already had the #25 pick and didn't have to give up anything to aquire it, my disillusion would be a bit more tempered...but damn, for the three picks they gave up to get the guy, he better damn well be more than "competition" and "depth"...because it can easily be argued that what Ramsey needs to succeed is continuity in a pro scheme and confidence from the coaching staff moreso than competition. Being agnostic ain't easy sometimes. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofer Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Originally posted by Dirk Diggler Om Who are you kidding? Beer will always be important in every situation. Dirk Beer: the perfect temporary solution to every problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnack Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 At some point one must look at the score card and count up the errors of their ways. Then make plans for the worse accordingly. I am concerned that the 'need' to sign Brunell proved imprudent and nobody is keeping score or learned anything for the experience. Campbell is a far greater reach in that he is not a short-term solution at QB. But that is only part of the problem... I have issue with the Redskins hedging their options today by mortgaging their immediate future should injury or failed experiments prove them to have been wrong in this draft. After all nothing is for certain in a game this physical. But we already have begun to raid the draft pantry in earnest, (as is our want) and still we have yet to address the ever-present holes on this team that have been present for years, such as at DE. Now we can compound that with losses at MLB and CB. Should our problems compound for whatever reason, then we will suffer for the choices made surrounding this draft. (Pray that Carlos Rodgers is “The Answer” at CB for the loss of Fred Smoot!) This draft more than any other I can recall in some thrity years has left this team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofer Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Whoa is me! Gloom, dispair, and agony on me, deep dark depression, excessive misery, if it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all, Gloom, dispair, and agony on me!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
36SKINS56 Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Im really gettin frustrated with the skins....absolutely awful draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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