Blondie Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 Originally posted by Grumpy Vet Your obsession and constant stalking of Tom Tupa is getting tiring. Yeah - he's at Redskins Park.....kicking his leg off.... Yeah - he's a great punter and a decent QB - we get it. Sheesh. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I know. I must get Tom out of my head. Blondie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebowski Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 Originally posted by Park City Skins Going through all the bad pub that he took, you just need time away from football,'' Portis said Wednesday. ``I think Sean's in shape. He looks good. He's training.'' Okay. So. The season ended when? He needs more time. Man some of these guys seem to be high maintanance. The only people that are seem high maitnance to me are fans like you who are "demanding" these kids live up to your expectations of them. You haters are a disgrace to real Redskins fans. You got it right from a player at the camps that Moss and Taylor aren't missing anything. Just running and weights. When you wouldn't believe me or other posters that was one thing. It is easy to dismiss me as a casual observer who doesn't know what is going on. But to get it right from a player and then still not let it go? Whta do you guys want? And don't give me the company line "coach syas be there, they need to be there". The teams need to work within the labor laws of the league. These workouts are voluntary for a reason. The players have the RIGHT to miss them. And they don't owe the fans any explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljer Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 Originally posted by Sebowski The only people that are seem high maitnance to me are fans like you who are "demanding" these kids live up to your expectations of them. You haters are a disgrace to real Redskins fans. You got it right from a player at the camps that Moss and Taylor aren't missing anything. Just running and weights. When you wouldn't believe me or other posters that was one thing. It is easy to dismiss me as a casual observer who doesn't know what is going on. But to get it right from a player and then still not let it go? Whta do you guys want? And don't give me the company line "coach syas be there, they need to be there". The teams need to work within the labor laws of the league. These workouts are voluntary for a reason. The players have the RIGHT to miss them. And they don't owe the fans any explanation. If you're happy with 6-10 seasons, fine. Some of us are not. Sure, they are running and lifting. But what they also are doing is building camaraderie and team unity. Something that seems to be lacking in the "me first" era of todays NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebowski Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 Originally posted by ljer If you're happy with 6-10 seasons, fine. Some of us are not. Sure, they are running and lifting. But what they also are doing is building camaraderie and team unity. Something that seems to be lacking in the "me first" era of todays NFL. Don't be so dramatic. A couple weeks in April isn't going to be the difference between 6-10 and 12-4. Don't take my word for it, take Portis'. Ravens and Colts seem to do alright even though Reed and Edge are always in Miami for these voluntaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 Originally posted by Sebowski The only people that are seem high maitnance to me are fans like you who are "demanding" these kids live up to your expectations of them. You haters are a disgrace to real Redskins fans. You got it right from a player at the camps that Moss and Taylor aren't missing anything. Just running and weights. When you wouldn't believe me or other posters that was one thing. It is easy to dismiss me as a casual observer who doesn't know what is going on. But to get it right from a player and then still not let it go? Whta do you guys want? And don't give me the company line "coach syas be there, they need to be there". The teams need to work within the labor laws of the league. These workouts are voluntary for a reason. The players have the RIGHT to miss them. And they don't owe the fans any explanation. Ah Sebowski. The only high maintenance people around here, it seems, are fellows like you, whom I have to hold by the hand, ( metaphorically speaking of course), and lead them through a simple little post so that they may better understand what was said, what wasn't, what was or wasn't implied, and generally point out just how silly you look for making assumptions like the ones above. Not to mention the use of sweeping generalizations. I didn't demand anything from this "kid". Nor did I say or imply such. I took one quote, which in my opinion is lame, and disagreed with him and his statement. Portis. Not Taylor. What's that? Yep. Look not so closely. I was talking about Portis. Nothing more. Nothing less. I implied no expectations nor "hate" for Taylor. Oh I did say high maintenance, but you'll noitce I said "seem". As in based on Portis' statement. With me now? Okay.Yet you feel free to make assumptions based on what you think, being generous, you read. The only thing disgraceful here are the judgements you are willing to make based on those assumptions. Such as me being a "hater". My but some of you are so quick to lump people who may disagree with your opinion into such sweeping categories. Haters, apologists, lovers, ect... I guess it should be no surprise, since it's easier to do that than actually try and think about another opinion.Of course, that I was a proponent of drafting the young man and have backed him for the most part during his time with the Skins is beside the point, ( No, maybe you didn't know that. But if you are going to "label" me, better do your homework). I have also said that though I do wish he would be with the rest of the team right now, things will work out come seasons beginning I believe. Oh wait. That's not all. I'm somehow a disgrace to "real" Redskins fans. Another one of my favorites. Seems as though some have a specific definition of not only the word "real" but of "fan". Coincidentally it mirrors whomever is labeling themselves a "real" fan. Care to explain that a little? Nah. Better not. May dig yourself in deeper. Tell you what, for ****s and giggles, let's take on the rest of that post. If I have any expectations of the young man, ( Don't fool yourself. He's a young man now not a kid), it's as just that. A man. Not a player. He needs, ( if these reports are true), to conduct himself with a little more respect for authority and to those whom he calls teammates. Actually, simple respect, if he indeed is not answering calls. I assure you, I and many others did. And yes, I can expect that from him. Just because he's an NFL player does not exclude him from certain basic rules of being and adult. The company line. Yeah right. It may be the company line but that does not mean it doesn't count. See, Coach Gibbs is the company. Oh sure, Dan Snyder ownes it, but it's Gibbs company to run. Taylor, like Portis, is an employee of that company. They do as they're told. Plain and simple. Oh sure, the league has rules and such, but it takes a special kind of ignorant to rest one's laurels on that one. These workouts have purpose, that is why teams all over the league have them. I don't care if a player says this or that, I do care what the boss says. Players play. Coaches coach and this one has credentials to boot. Players may have a right to miss them, but a coach has the right to expect them there, for the reasons given by he and other players. Oh yeah. That's right. Perhaps you missed some comments by other players. You know, the ones where the players not so subtlety say how they wish Taylor was there and that he should be there. And why? Funny thing. Just like Coach Gibbs said. It's about more than lifting weights and running. I think that comes under the heading of "getting it right from the players mouth". Or in this case mouths. As I said, I think this will shake itself out by the time the season comes around. And Taylor, though he may have some catching up to do, ( in regards to Williams maybe tweaking things a bit and learning a little more about the Safety position in the NFL), will probably be ok. He does have some growing up to do, ( we all did and do), but it would appear his athlete status may have stunted his growth some so far. Good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 Originally posted by Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin Naw. It's plank in your own eye, speck or mote of dust in the other. Jesus, the Gift that keeps on Givin'. Oh. And glad we got that all straightened out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 Originally posted by Sebowski Don't be so dramatic. A couple weeks in April isn't going to be the difference between 6-10 and 12-4. Don't take my word for it, take Portis'. Ravens and Colts seem to do alright even though Reed and Edge are always in Miami for these voluntaries. The Colts are so successful because Peyton Manning attends every single practice, meeting, camp, workout and reads the playbook in his sleep. That's why he scored a $100 million contract and is the heart and soul of the team.... and James is on the trading block for a second round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSteve Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 These are voluntary workouts under labor law. The REdskins can be unhappy, but legally the player has the right to take off for vacation time. Taylor's problem is not that he is not reporting to VOLUNTARY workouts. His problem is that he is blowing Gibbs off in doing so, which is not exactly the best way to make a great impression on your coach. As for this nonsense of criticizing Portis' grammar..please. Let it go. Let it go. It's not like he's illiterate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted April 21, 2005 Share Posted April 21, 2005 More than just running and lifting weights http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=98604&highlight=Taylor http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=98031&highlight=Taylor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebowski Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 Originally posted by Park City Skins Ah Sebowski. The only high maintenance people around here, it seems, are fellows like you, whom I have to hold by the hand, ( metaphorically speaking of course), and lead them through a simple little post so that they may better understand what was said, what wasn't, what was or wasn't implied, and generally point out just how silly you look for making assumptions like the ones above. Not to mention the use of sweeping generalizations. I didn't demand anything from this "kid". Nor did I say or imply such. I took one quote, which in my opinion is lame, and disagreed with him and his statement. Portis. Not Taylor. What's that? Yep. Look not so closely. I was talking about Portis. Nothing more. Nothing less. I implied no expectations nor "hate" for Taylor. Oh I did say high maintenance, but you'll noitce I said "seem". As in based on Portis' statement. With me now? Okay.Yet you feel free to make assumptions based on what you think, being generous, you read. The only thing disgraceful here are the judgements you are willing to make based on those assumptions. Such as me being a "hater". My but some of you are so quick to lump people who may disagree with your opinion into such sweeping categories. Haters, apologists, lovers, ect... I guess it should be no surprise, since it's easier to do that than actually try and think about another opinion.Of course, that I was a proponent of drafting the young man and have backed him for the most part during his time with the Skins is beside the point, ( No, maybe you didn't know that. But if you are going to "label" me, better do your homework). I have also said that though I do wish he would be with the rest of the team right now, things will work out come seasons beginning I believe. Oh wait. That's not all. I'm somehow a disgrace to "real" Redskins fans. Another one of my favorites. Seems as though some have a specific definition of not only the word "real" but of "fan". Coincidentally it mirrors whomever is labeling themselves a "real" fan. Care to explain that a little? Nah. Better not. May dig yourself in deeper. Tell you what, for ****s and giggles, let's take on the rest of that post. If I have any expectations of the young man, ( Don't fool yourself. He's a young man now not a kid), it's as just that. A man. Not a player. He needs, ( if these reports are true), to conduct himself with a little more respect for authority and to those whom he calls teammates. Actually, simple respect, if he indeed is not answering calls. I assure you, I and many others did. And yes, I can expect that from him. Just because he's an NFL player does not exclude him from certain basic rules of being and adult. The company line. Yeah right. It may be the company line but that does not mean it doesn't count. See, Coach Gibbs is the company. Oh sure, Dan Snyder ownes it, but it's Gibbs company to run. Taylor, like Portis, is an employee of that company. They do as they're told. Plain and simple. Oh sure, the league has rules and such, but it takes a special kind of ignorant to rest one's laurels on that one. These workouts have purpose, that is why teams all over the league have them. I don't care if a player says this or that, I do care what the boss says. Players play. Coaches coach and this one has credentials to boot. Players may have a right to miss them, but a coach has the right to expect them there, for the reasons given by he and other players. Oh yeah. That's right. Perhaps you missed some comments by other players. You know, the ones where the players not so subtlety say how they wish Taylor was there and that he should be there. And why? Funny thing. Just like Coach Gibbs said. It's about more than lifting weights and running. I think that comes under the heading of "getting it right from the players mouth". Or in this case mouths. As I said, I think this will shake itself out by the time the season comes around. And Taylor, though he may have some catching up to do, ( in regards to Williams maybe tweaking things a bit and learning a little more about the Safety position in the NFL), will probably be ok. He does have some growing up to do, ( we all did and do), but it would appear his athlete status may have stunted his growth some so far. Good day. My bad. You are right. I didn't do my homework on you and I did generalize you. I was just sick of hearing nothing but Redskins bashing from everyone I talked to, and the national media. I came on here thinking at least my fellow Skins fans will see the silver lining of everything going on, and then read nothing but more bashing. I saw your post and fired away. Sorry. Wasn't personal. I stand by everything else I said though. I don't think the workouts are THAT big a deal. The players union and the NFL agreed to these offseason rules. Whether you, another fan, or coach Gibbs agrees with them doesn't matter. The players have the right to miss them. I know you said this is a weak argument (and I think even slipped in an "ignorant" jab), but I don't see how it is any weaker than saying "coach says be there, these spoiled kids need to be there" (not saying that is your argument). The problem is that these voluntaries have become so highly attended that when players decide they don't want to be there for waht ever reason, it becomes a big to-do. This is something that I am sure will be an issue at the next bargaining table. The fact is that not only do coaches not have the right to expect players there, but they explicitly through the laws of the real boss of the comapny, Paul Tagliabue, can not expect them to be there. To defend the players just a bit further: This "they get Febuary and April to relax. that is more than any of us, and they get to retire early" crap is stupid on so many levels I won't get into all of them. First, They are also on the road sleeping in hotels and working 6 days a week more than most of you. Second, they earned this life. Just like Trump, Gates (Bill or Antonio), Spielberg, ect... What else..... Oh yeah. If Sean Taylor missing voluntaries is is that big of a deal, if we are dying to have just one extra minute on the practice field, then we have for bigger problems. It is like the kid who is running into class late on a test day speed reading his textbook hoping it will be the difference between passing and failing. I honestly think Taylor is better off down in Miami right now. I also believe that Gibbs thinks Taylor would be better off at the workouts. I don't think this about about playbooks or contracts for Taylor. If it was a football matter, or when the real camps roll around, I will give Gibbs the benefit of the doubt and side with him. This is personal time set aside by league rules, so I am giving Taylor the benefit of the doubt on Sean Taylor. Not everyone is cut out to be in front of hounding fans and malicious reporters. This is his first offseason in the league. I'm sure he will get the hang of it. Right now if he (and Portis) think he is better off with friends and family I have no problem with it, and no fan should. We are in no positon to judge his desicions. Maybe if Ricky Williams took more Ricky time and wasn't always trying to please everyone he wouldn't have walked away. And since you asked, I think a real fan is someone who is going to stand by the team and its players. Someone who at the very least gives them and its palyers the benifit of the doubt on everything. The "sky is falling attitude" is for bandwagoners and pile on-ers(did I just make up a word?) 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Tarhog Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 Originally posted by Sebowski It is easy to dismiss me as a casual observer who doesn't know what is going on. I dismiss you as a casual observer who doesn't know what is going on. Hey. You were right! That WAS easy :laugh: On a serious note, they should all be in camp if they care about their team. I can't agree with your analogy of 'cramming for a test' - its the guys that are AT the Park right now that are studying hard and doing the unglamorous grunt work. I believe Gibb's philosophy has always been that you win by being more prepared than the other team could ever hope to be. And to play Johny Cochran for a moment 'You can't PREPARE if you ain't THERE' The fact that this is apparently even debatable is freaking sad beyond belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMat184 Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 Lets face it people missing these workouts is not gonna hurt Sean Taylor on the field. While I wish Santana Moss was there "playing catch" with Patrick Ramsey I'm certainly not going to slam him for not. These players are mostly just working out and running around, absolutely nothing to do with scheme and gameplanning. These guys will be there when it counts period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsandCanes Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 As for this nonsense of criticizing Portis' grammar..please. Let it go. Let it go. It's not like he's illiterate. Agreed. However, I'm sure everyone here speaks with proper grammer all the time. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 Originally posted by TMat184 Lets face it people missing these workouts is not gonna hurt Sean Taylor on the field. While I wish Santana Moss was there "playing catch" with Patrick Ramsey I'm certainly not going to slam him for not. These players are mostly just working out and running around, absolutely nothing to do with scheme and gameplanning. These guys will be there when it counts period. Not trying to bust your balls, but I couldn't disagree with you more here. Seriously, if there wasn't value in getting the players together now, do you think Joe Gibbs would bother with it? Where are you getting the information that leads you to say they're just 'playing catch'? This is an important time of the year. Every minute these guys spend together is important. I believe Gibbs, Williams, Bugel, and the rest of the coaching staff would vehemently disagree with you. And even if you were to make the assumption that there's little value, in terms of actually 'practicing' and 'gameplanning' going on - can you at least see that having guys opt NOT to do what 98% of their teammates deem important and what their own coaches are asking them to do is a big negative? What does it say about those guys, and their level of respect for what the coaching staff is trying to do? It says they think they are more important as individuals than as members of the team. At least that what it says to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallsux Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 Originally posted by tr1 Portis says AWOL Taylor needs 'time away' from football By JOSEPH WHITE, AP Sports Writer April 20, 2005 ASHBURN, Va. (AP) -- Running back Clinton Portis says his good friend Sean Taylor is boycotting the Washington Redskins' offseason program because of a need for ``time away from football'' after a difficult rookie season. Portis said he saw Taylor at a charity picnic in Florida over the weekend. ``Going through all the bad pub that he took, you just need time away from football,'' Portis said Wednesday. ``I think Sean's in shape. He looks good. He's training.'' Taylor and receiver Santana Moss are the only two unexcused absentees from the offseason workouts, a snub that has upset coach Joe Gibbs. Both players have told the Redskins they want new contracts. Gibbs has heard from Moss, who was acquired in a trade with the New York Jets, but Taylor hasn't returned any of the coach's phone calls. Both players have the same agent, Drew Rosenhaus, and Portis, Taylor and Moss all attended the University of Miami. Gibbs said Taylor and Moss will be in violation of their contracts if they don't report for the start of the more structured offseason workouts in early May, even though the players' union considers those practices voluntary. ``Sometimes you work through these issues and tough things come up,'' Gibbs said. ``And we're trying to do that right now.'' Taylor, a safety, wants to overhaul the seven-year, $18 million deal he signed a year ago. Although he played well in his rookie season, he was an off-the-field headache for the team. He fired two agents, was fined for skipping a day of the NFL's rookie symposium and was benched for a game after being arrested on a drunken driving charge for which he was later cleared. ``I think Sean's going to come back high-intensity,'' Portis said. ``Just let him go out and have fun, as long as he's not getting in trouble.'' Portis downplayed the significance of the workouts and said he was attending only because he wants to assume a leadership role among his teammates. ``Nothing happens today ain't going to affect July, August, September,'' Portis said. ``Santana calls me every day: 'Man, what y'all do today?' I'm like: 'Man, we ain't did nothing. We're doing the same thing you're doing in Miami, running and working out. You ain't missed nothing.''' The day after the season ended in January, Portis famously said his offseason plans were to live it up, and he asked reporters for mercy in advance in case he made the news for the wrong reasons. Asked on Wednesday whether he had behaved himself, Portis said: ``No, I didn't. I just didn't get caught.'' ``I had a couple of parties with Hugh Hefner that were invite-only, so there were no cameras involved,'' Portis said. ``I did the SI swimsuit (issue).'' He appeared to be joking, but one never knows with Portis. ``Hopefully when this gets calmed down and we get these two other Miami guys up here and some of this heat is taken off me, I can slide in there with (owner Dan) Snyder and coach Gibbs and ask them if I can miss a week or two,'' Portis said. ``I'll pick up where they left off.'' http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-redskins-portis-taylor&prov=ap&type=lgns Ok, so, basically, Taylor is being his usual self & Portis is seeking attention. So...? This is news? Look, when you look around the League, how many TRULY great players are there right now. Randy Moss-headcase. TO-headcase. Ray Lewis-headcase. Catching my drift? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallsux Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 Originally posted by TMat184 Lets face it people missing these workouts is not gonna hurt Sean Taylor on the field. While I wish Santana Moss was there "playing catch" with Patrick Ramsey I'm certainly not going to slam him for not. These players are mostly just working out and running around, absolutely nothing to do with scheme and gameplanning. These guys will be there when it counts period. Well, I do think that it will hurt S.Moss. Maybe not Taylor so much. Ramsey has been at Redskins Park practicing with the WRs getting his timing better & more comfortable with the playbook. By season's start, I expect Ramsey to be in very good shape. We should be pleased with his performance next season. With Moss in there now, they can really form a great bond & if Moss isn't there, that bond could take longer to form & affect the timing & playcalling into the season. With him not being there, he could be potentially phasing himself out. I'll tell ya this much, tho. It certainly isn't what I would call a "promotional bell-ringer." Especially since this is his first year here & he's not even here. Now, as far as Taylor is concerned, I think as long as he is working out & doing the right things where his health & fitness is concerned, he could be doing it on the moon & I wouldn't care. I'm sure that not being with the team working can cause problems, but some of these guys come from all over the country & would like to spend some time with their families still. Would I like Taylor with the team? Yes. But I understand that he's not. I don't think it's going to hurt him nearly as much as it will or could Moss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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