MaddogCT Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Originally posted by SkinsFTW So we should dedicate a whole day of celebration to guys (or girls) who get hot when looking at another guys (or girls) ass? Give me a break. Your definition of homosexualls: Looking at the ass of same sex and getting hot. So is your definition of heterosexualls the following: Looking at the ass of the opposite sex and getting hot.? Just asking...... :logo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Originally posted by chomerics Here's the problem with your analogy. I don't routinely hear about Commies getting the crap beat out of them. I also don't remember being taught by gay people how to molest young boys, but that may be because I don't "get wood for preteens".. Maybe you have them confuseed with the priests who are doing what they want with the altar boys, because I DO think that is a MAJOR problem. I DO think that a major problem with society is the fact that some of our religious leaders are molesting our kids. I do think part of the problem with the church is that they kept pedophiles hidden from socioety, just shuffling them from parrish to parrish until they got caught again. I do think this is a major problem with our society, but I do NOT think telling a kid some people have two mothers or two fathers is this great travesty. Dude you miss the whole point. Should we have "fat people celebration day" the day after "we love you gay people, really we do day" How about a day honoring the Coke bottle glasses kids? They get beat up too. I'm all for fairness here. And you are wrong about the 2 mother or 2 father thing. Not a single kid on this planet have 2 moms or 2 dads and that is something they really should be teaching in school I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Originally posted by MaddogCT Your definition of homosexualls: Looking at the ass of same sex and getting hot. So is your definition of heterosexualls the following: Looking at the ass of the opposite sex and getting hot.? Just asking...... :logo: Do I look like Mr. Webster? I wasn't saying that was my definition. It was just the example I chose to use. But to clear things up, I do know for a fact that most of us straight guys do prefer a female ass to a male ass probably 100% of the time in fact? Got any other questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Whoops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddogCT Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Originally posted by SkinsFTW Do I look like Mr. Webster? I wasn't saying that was my definition. It was just the example I chose to use. But to clear things up, I do know for a fact that most of us straight guys do prefer a female ass to a male ass probably 100% of the time in fact? Got any other questions? As an example of what? My point is sexuallity is defined more by what happends above the waist than below it. :logo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Originally posted by MaddogCT As an example of what? My point is sexuallity is defined more by what happends above the waist than below it. :logo: I thought it was obvious that peoples brains decided what they like and dont like. It still doesn't make having a "We love gay people too" days at elementary schools a good thing. But thats just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddogCT Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Originally posted by SkinsFTW I thought it was obvious that peoples brains decided what they like and dont like. It still doesn't make having a "We love gay people too" days at elementary schools a good thing. But thats just my opinion. When people use comments like "ass" "hot" "wood" how are we supposed to know that person is even thinking above the waist. I'm skeptical that what was posted is even accurate. Its a second hand source at best and there is probably some wrong information unintentionally being passed along. If it is true, we don't know how Gay Pride will be presented. Most of the time this kind of story is anti-climatic, and people who were initially against it say "I got all worked up over this?" Information is great when its accurate and non biased. Arguing over rumor and innuendo is almost pointless. That said I gotta go home and get some sleep. :logo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 MY children are not 6 and 2 1/2. You know how hard it is to explain to the Kindergartner that if a guy comes up asking to help look for a puppy not too. I get her to agree but if i wait a week and ask her a slightly different question on it she fails. If an old lady with white hair comes up she's a grandma not a stranger... they tolerate ALL because they don't know not too.... This is an Agenda not a tolerance teaching.... Ever see 28 Kindergartners break into groups based on race or preference? nope.. they don't care they just want to play. As long as they arn't teaching elemetary children Sexual preferences and its 'JUST' a parade or activity day I wouldnt pull my child out of class that day. If it is "instructional" I'd pull her out even if it was Hetro day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Really, there is no point to this. A better alternative would be to just teach kids to accept ALL people that are different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan51 Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Originally posted by Liberty Really, there is no point to this. A better alternative would be to just teach kids to accept ALL people that are different. That depends on what you mean by acceptance. In our home we teach our children to treat everyone with respect. There is a difference between respect and acceptance, IMO. There are no "different" people in our eyes. We are all humans. But we do not accept all peoples' lifestyles as being acceptable, however. They're not, and no one reading this believes that. Are children supposed to accept the local pedophile? How about the prostitute on the corner? How about the neo-Nazi influenced kids that roam our schools? Am I to teach my children to accept them and that it's "ok to live however you want to live"? As for homosexuality, the subject of this thread, our children know very little, as they are still very young. But what we have said is that it is wrong for a man to be married to a man, and a woman to a women. That is what we believe and that is what we will teach them as they grow and mature. They would respect homosexuals, just like my wife and I would, but not accept their lifestyle as being morally right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Originally posted by portisizzle And do you expect sex ed classes to include a chapter about how two of the same sex get along? Seeing how Homosexuality is a REALITY, and has been for many, many years, yes, I do think it should be discussed in Sex Education. Sex Ed. teaches more than just "insert this into that", they generally teach a wide variety of things. Since gay people have sex too, and not everyone is hetero sexual, why shouldn't it be discussed? I'm not talking about positions or how they do it, but certainly some statistics on how many homosexuals exist in the U.S., etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEF Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 I think a day celebrating "ignorant bigotry" might sooth the righteous indignation crowd. Really, it's the least we can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Originally posted by LC80 I think a day celebrating "ignorant bigotry" might sooth the righteous indignation crowd. Really, it's the least we can do. I got no problem with (its deviant behavior day) where we all get together and talk about what the different behavoirs are and which card is appropriate.. I sent you a card.. did yah get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Originally posted by herrmag Seeing how Homosexuality is a REALITY, and has been for many, many years, yes, I do think it should be discussed in Sex Education. Sex Ed. teaches more than just "insert this into that", they generally teach a wide variety of things. Since gay people have sex too, and not everyone is hetero sexual, why shouldn't it be discussed? I'm not talking about positions or how they do it, but certainly some statistics on how many homosexuals exist in the U.S., etc. I'm sure most sex education classes DO discuss it - I think the point of this thread was a child's 'education' on why someone has 2 Daddys or Mommies doesn't need to start in elementary school. I'm surprised theres much debate on this. Even if you feel homosexuality is 'wrong' or 'deviant', it is a fact of life, and at some point it is going to be discussed as part of your child's education. I just don't think elementary school is the place for that discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan51 Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Originally posted by Tarhog I'm sure most sex education classes DO discuss it - I think the point of this thread was a child's 'education' on why someone has 2 Daddys or Mommies doesn't need to start in elementary school. I'm surprised theres much debate on this. Even if you feel homosexuality is 'wrong' or 'deviant', it is a fact of life, and at some point it is going to be discussed as part of your child's education. I just don't think elementary school is the place for that discussion. I agree, and I agree that if your children are in public education they will learn about it, and that's not a bad thing, necessarily, and more than they will learn what war is, and other controversial issues. Fortunately, I homeschool my kids so they'll get this information when I think it's necessary and not when the school thinks it's necessary. If my kids were in the public school system, I would just want to make sure that it were discussed as a fact of life, and not as acceptable. Otherwise, what is the difference between one teacher promoting it as a morally sound lifestyle and another teacher promoting the Christian life as a morally sound lifestyle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 I think the other point is that we vastly overestimate the impact of 'education' on our children's belief systems. What they see, hear, and learn at home is much more powerful in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan51 Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Originally posted by LC80 I think a day celebrating "ignorant bigotry" might sooth the righteous indignation crowd. Really, it's the least we can do. Would you have a problem if the pedophiles in your town wanted to parade down your street holding signs promoting their lifestyle? I mean pedophiles DO exist, right? They are a REALITY in our societies, right? What if the Mayor or police chief joined them? Would that bother you? If that does bother you, are you an "ignorant bigot" by your definition? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkyalligator Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 I for one don't agree with having a gay pride day for children that young...it just doesn't seem appropriate.....sexual orientation isn't something children at that age worry about so why should we.....I do think that perhaps they should convert it to a tolerence day...perhaps discuss stuff about homosexuality, different races....etc... but even then it should be confined to grade 6 and up.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan51 Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Originally posted by Tarhog I think the other point is that we vastly overestimate the impact of 'education' on our children's belief systems. What they see, hear, and learn at home is much more powerful in my opinion. When they are very young, yes. But as they begin to mature, the sway of their friends and surroundings begins to pull at them. That's when the typical parent/teenage conflicts begin. Why? Because the children are adopting principles that the parents may not agree with. Don't get me wrong. It can happen in the home, too. That's why parents need to impart their beliefs unto their children with love and affection. Correction and discipline are necessary, but obedience comes from winning their hearts. If you do that they will find it very hard to rebel against you because they don't want to hurt someone that has showed such love and patience to them for so many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenaa Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 "It's this type of mentality that causes hatred, bigotry and homophobia. This type of mentality lead directly to the death of Matthew Sheppard, and it's why he was beaten to death and left to die tied to a post. " BS. I never said anything about hatred or homophobio. I said I won't tolerate indoctrinating my childtren that it is ok to be gay. I didn't say that I am intollerant of homosexuals. As I've stated in many threads, they have a right to their choices. I could care less. That doesn't mean that society has to go out of it's way to normalize their preference. My girls are 6 and 7 years old. They don't have a clue about sexuality yet, and absolutely don't need to be introduced to it in such a fashion. They're my children and it is my right to introduce them in the way I see fit. "Being gay IS acceptable, it IS part of life. You may not be gay, but you DO have to respect others wishes. " I might have to tolerate their wishes, but I don't have to respect thier lifestyle as being acceptable. And I won't teach my children it is acceptable. Just because it IS part of life, doesn't make it right. Murder, rape and child molestation are part of life too!!! "Personally, I find nothing wrong with a gay pride day, it teaches tolerance at a young age, and it teaches people that if somebody is different, then that's O.K." This is exactly what I have a problem with. We all agree that kids in schools these days are out of hand. We all agree that it is largely the parents fault, and that the parents need to be the ones teaching their kids how to behave. The teachers are there to educate, not raise the children. But on this issue, you want the school to teach the kids what is right and wrong. This is not the schools job. It's mine. They need to stay the heck out of the raising of my child, and stick to educating them. Which, by the way, I have to spend way too much time doing myself because our schools are overburdened with behavior problems and can't fully focus on educating the children. You see, you want to force your beliefs on those of us that believe homosexuality is wrong. We're not forcing anything on you or homosexuals. They can be homosexual all they want. I have no problem with that, as that is their right. Why is it that they feel they have to force their position on us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gichin13 Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Originally posted by SkinsFTW So we should dedicate a whole day of celebration to guys (or girls) who get hot when looking at another guys (or girls) ass? Give me a break. Having a gay pride day when at least 90% of the population isnt gay is rediculous. It's like having Communist pride day or white power pride day. I mean everyone should get their own day, right? What about "I get wood for preteens day?" Can't leave those freaks out either now can we? I couldn't care less about whether or not there are gay people everywhere but there is no need for a day celebrating their existance. Especially at a school. Whoever thinks up crap like this needs to be locked up not put in charge of anything like a school. WTF? Did you read my other posts? I said I did not think elementary school was the place for this. Having discussion of tolerance regarding sexual preference during high school I have no objection to. My comment you snipped was to the attitude of the quoted poster specifically. This is what they said: Exactly, let them do as they please behind doors; however, do not bring it into the open and expect the majority of America to embrace it. I do not approve of homosexuals and will have nothing to do with them. If this means I am a basher than so be it! To me that is a lame attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Originally posted by skinsfan51 When they are very young, yes. But as they begin to mature, the sway of their friends and surroundings begins to pull at them. That's when the typical parent/teenage conflicts begin. Why? Because the children are adopting principles that the parents may not agree with. Don't get me wrong. It can happen in the home, too. That's why parents need to impart their beliefs unto their children with love and affection. Correction and discipline are necessary, but obedience comes from winning their hearts. If you do that they will find it very hard to rebel against you because they don't want to hurt someone that has showed such love and patience to them for so many years. I respect your choices for your kids. However, I believe 'rebellion' is a natural (and to a certain extent, maybe even healthy) part of teenage-dom. You may have better luck delaying or muffling it with things like home-schooling, restricting access to certain influences, etc..., but eventually, they have to venture into society, and experience all of the 'other' viewpoints, lifestyles, and influences. I'm raising my kids with love, fairness, the golden rule. I have faith that they'll make good decisions down the road because I've instilled core values. I don't think we really disagree here. We're just proponents of two different approaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gichin13 Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Originally posted by stevenaa I said I won't tolerate indoctrinating my childtren that it is ok to be gay. I didn't say that I am intollerant of homosexuals. As I've stated in many threads, they have a right to their choices. I could care less. That doesn't mean that society has to go out of it's way to normalize their preference. ... I might have to tolerate their wishes, but I don't have to respect thier lifestyle as being acceptable. And I won't teach my children it is acceptable. ... You see, you want to force your beliefs on those of us that believe homosexuality is wrong. We're not forcing anything on you or homosexuals. They can be homosexual all they want. I have no problem with that, as that is their right. Why is it that they feel they have to force their position on us? You are all over the place on this issue. Lets do a synopsis: I won't tolerate telling my kids it is ok, but I am not intolerant of homosexuals. They have a right to their choices, but their choices are wrong and unacceptable to me as a parent. We're not forcing anything on them, we have no problem, but please don't actually expect us to accept you as you are. This type of attitude really is the reason that so many kids stay in the closet. Tell me that does not lead to a whole host of serious adjustment problems. Bad enough to be shunned by society, but to know your own parents think you are morally bankrupt over something you have no control over? I do not care how many people come out with programs that they have "reformed" the "deviant behavior" of those "inculcated in a homosexual lifestyle". I did not decide I would get turned on over a hot girl, it just happened. How is it so hard to extrapolate that we really have little control over who we find attractive sexually? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenaa Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 I'm raising my kids with love, fairness, the golden rule. I have faith that they'll make good decisions down the road because I've instilled core values. And I bet your kids will do just fine. I think the unfortunate problem is that most parents don't give a thought to what values they want to instill in their children. They just muddle through parenting trying to keep it simple. Forethought and a little planning will lessen the inevitable rebellion. You just try to give them a good base so they rebell with a little common sense. :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gichin13 Posted April 2, 2005 Share Posted April 2, 2005 Originally posted by skinsfan51 Would you have a problem if the pedophiles in your town wanted to parade down your street holding signs promoting their lifestyle? I mean pedophiles DO exist, right? They are a REALITY in our societies, right? What if the Mayor or police chief joined them? Would that bother you? If that does bother you, are you an "ignorant bigot" by your definition? Pedophilia really is not a good analogy. On the one hand, we have homosexuality: two consenting persons. On the other hand we have pedophilia: one adult preying on a minor who has no control over their situation and has their sexual innocence robbed from them permanently. I will accept folks orientation where that orientation is consensual and does no harm to others. Even with that, I will judge folks who engage in risk type behaviors that create an AIDs epidemic ... but I am judging the stupidity of passing around needles and engaging in unprotected sex, not a moral judgment on being homosexual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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