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Sportsline: Coles for Santana Moss


cphil006

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This is a little perplexing, unless Coles forfeits his bonus payment.

If not, then this is moderately upsetting. Coles is a better player, toe or no. Plus, we'll be taking a cap hit in exchange for a guy who may be around for one year. Finally, Moss has a history of injury...

And by the way, if Moss is going to be our "Gary Clark," then he better not be fielding punts.

:thud:

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This trade is awful.

How do we go from getting John Abraham, one of the best players in football at a premium position, to getting Santana Moss, not even one of the top 20 WR's in football?

This doesn't make sense. I like Moss as a WR in FA, but his value is far from equaling that of Coles. We're getting screwed.

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Also, I don't think you extend Moss. Should you trade for him, you make him prove himself in the final year of his contract. That could bite us in the behind should he blow up this year but that's a problem I'd prefer to have over him being signed long term and turning out to be a mediocre player.

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Originally posted by sjinhan

however i really would rather just get draft picks for both Coles and Gardner...

The problem is that Gibbs values players with experience over draft picks...

on sportstalk 980..they jsut said that the Jets will pick up the 5 million of Coles and that S. Moss's base salary for next year is $500,000.

Not too bad IMO....

overall draft picks would be nice, but again GIbbs doesnt prefer them like experienced players.

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Originally posted by skinzfan4life

The problem is that Gibbs values players with experience over draft picks...

on sportstalk 980..they jsut said that the Jets will pick up the 5 million of Coles and that S. Moss's base salary for next year is $500,000.

Not too bad IMO....

overall draft picks would be nice, but again GIbbs doesnt prefer them like experienced players.

the problem is that its only one year fix.. then Moss needs to get paid...

i wouldnt trade Coles to have a WR replacement that will be around for maybe a year...

i would rather have a WR with a friendly contract long term or some draft picks so we can have some cheap players for at least 3-4 years...

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Originally posted by skinzfan4life

The problem is that Gibbs values players with experience over draft picks...

on sportstalk 980..they jsut said that the Jets will pick up the 5 million of Coles and that S. Moss's base salary for next year is $500,000.

Bingo!... but Coles balked at that.

If the Skins eat the bonus... expect more compensation for Coles in an open market

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Originally posted by The Dude

I'm not sure why, but when I hear Miami referred to as "The U", I want to :puke:

Your not sure why Portis & Taylor would smile????

They all went to Miami and refer to it as The "U"...

Miami players love Miami players

Do you want puke when Taylor lights WR's up???

I don't damn if the went to the "U" , they wear the burgundy and gold now.

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Originally posted by sjinhan

the problem is that its only one year fix.. then Moss needs to get paid...

How can you claim it's a one year fix? Have you been on the phones with Joe Gibbs listening to the discussions they're having? How do you know that we wouldn't entertain the possibility of extending his contract? Do you think we are going to give up one of the better WR's in the game for a one year rental? Right now might not be the best time to extend him because we have a myriad of problems to take care of this off season. I'm sure at some point before now and the season starts they will take care of the contract. Doesn't Drew Rosenhause work good with The Dan anyway? They'll probably have that thing done over an appetizer at Olives one night.

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LOL...this a great deal. Coles value is shot. He wants to go and we want to get rid of him. It's the same thing with Gardner...1st he's worthless, but teams better ante up to get him. Right. If Randy Moss is worth a #1 and an average player, Coles is worth Moss, maybe less.

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Originally posted by SlobberKnockinFootball

How can you claim it's a one year fix? Have you been on the phones with Joe Gibbs listening to the discussions they're having? How do you know that we wouldn't entertain the possibility of extending his contract? Do you think we are going to give up one of the better WR's in the game for a one year rental? Right now might not be the best time to extend him because we have a myriad of problems to take care of this off season. I'm sure at some point before now and the season starts they will take care of the contract. Doesn't Drew Rosenhause work good with The Dan anyway? They'll probably have that thing done over an appetizer at Olives one night.

I agree he will get an extension before the season starts...

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Originally posted by fredskinz

The guy missed 2 games in the last 3 years. I wouldn't call that a history of injury...

Knee injuries always worry me, particularly a torn ACL/PCL. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't that happen to Moss in 2001? :doh:

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Originally posted by SlobberKnockinFootball

Yea, before his toe injury. Now he's a totally different player then the one we signed before the injury.

I see what you are saying, but I think that all this toe stuff is speculation. He isn't that much different to me. I think this boils down to the game plan. He wasn't happy with Gibbs game plan last year and he is impatient. Coles was used as an over the middle guy and he doesn't agree with that.

I have a hard time REALLY believing that he is that different than what we saw in 2003. Him and Ramsey had no problems hooking up the year before. His YPC was 14.7, and he caught alot more TDs. 8 less passes was enough for a Pro Bowl berth.

To me, the injury deal is just an excuse. Besides why would ANY team want him if the injury was that serious?

He knows he will have to undergo a physical for any new team that he may sign with. A serious toe injury will not help his value at all.

So lookng at the facts it's fairly easy for me to see that he just wants to be used as a stretch the field guy, not hitch pass guy and that he isn't very patient.

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Originally posted by illone

I see what you are saying, but I think that all this toe stuff is speculation. He isn't that much different to me. I think this boils down to the game plan. He wasn't happy with Gibbs game plan last year and he is impatient. Coles was used as an over the middle guy and he doesn't agree with that.

I have a hard time REALLY believing that he is that different than what we saw in 2003. Him and Ramsey had no problems hooking up the year before. His YPC was 14.7, and he caught alot more TDs. 8 less passes was enough for a Pro Bowl berth.

To me, the injury deal is just an excuse. Besides why would ANY team want him if the injury was that serious?

He knows he will have to undergo a physical for any new team that he may sign with. A serious toe injury will not help his value at all.

So lookng at the facts it's fairly easy for me to see that he just wants to be used as a stretch the field guy, not hitch pass guy and that he isn't very patient.

That's right, he wants to be a stretch the field type of player but it's not there anymore. I've seen time and time again on this board where people have been to the games and have said that Coles cannot seperate himself from CB's on Go and fly routes. It's not there anymore.

You and I can get seperation on quick slants and WR screens and hook patterns.

Remember Gibbs said, our first thing we tried to do when passing is go deep. That was mainly Coles and Gardner. They couldn't get open so that's where all the medium and short routes came into effect. Case and point, how do you think Cooley got so many balls? Because the deep stuff was covered when we tried.

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umm - i dont' know what everyone is complaining about. We're getting rid of a disgruntled player, we're clearing out a LOT of cap room (assuming the deal goes through as advertised) and we are getting an experienced starting reciever for about 400,000 bucks. If we don't like moss this year we DONT re-sign him since this is his last year in a contract! this gives us a lot of places to go with wide receivers and a lot of room for the future. I like coles, but come on, this deal is amazing. If we pick up mason or draft another receiver we will be in good shape.

the jets are going to take away all our problems and give us untainted goods at starting receiver all in one fell swoop.

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Originally posted by SlobberKnockinFootball

That's right, he wants to be a stretch the field type of player but it's not there anymore. I've seen time and time again on this board where people have been to the games and have said that Coles cannot seperate himself from CB's on Go and fly routes. It's not there anymore.

You and I can get seperation on quick slants and WR screens and hook patterns.

Remember Gibbs said, our first thing we tried to do when passing is go deep. That was mainly Coles and Gardner. They couldn't get open so that's where all the medium and short routes came into effect. Case and point, how do you think Cooley got so many balls? Because the deep stuff was covered when we tried.

That is one thing that is really tough to see on TV. If other posters here saw it in action than I may have missed the game thread. Either way it's not something I took note to, only dropped passes and big hits across the middle.

It's a tough call to make because Gibbs is so PC in the press conference. If it was Parcells he would say that our receivers suck and can't get open:laugh:

Gibbs countless times said that Coles was a warrior.

Ah well, we'll just have to speculate for now until more facts come to light.

:cheers:

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Pre-toe injury Coles was worth a ton and he was on the level of a Torry Holt.

Coles current value is nowhere near that. People need to give up the notion that he has the same value as before. Couple this with the fact that we need to trade him, and his value goes even lower. The only thing that increases the value is if there are multiple teams who want him. So far we know of the Jets and another 2-3 unnamed teams.

I do believe that Coles is worth moderately more than Moss, so I would love to get an additional pick (probably a 4th), but there is a good chance that it will be straight up. Another positive in my eyes is that Santana will be playing in a contract year. So either he plays great, the Skins thrive and he earns a nice payday OR he is mediocre and we let him go elsewhere or resign him to a reasonable deal.

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Originally posted by skinzfan4life

The problem is that Gibbs values players with experience over draft picks...

on sportstalk 980..they jsut said that the Jets will pick up the 5 million of Coles and that S. Moss's base salary for next year is $500,000.

Not too bad IMO....

overall draft picks would be nice, but again GIbbs doesnt prefer them like experienced players.

That is a good deal but Coles value is a bit higher the Moss. I worry about Joe's philosophy in today's Nfl. Most of the playoff Teams draft their own players & don't overpay. He fails to realize the importance of draft picks. He practically gives them away like Candy.(2nd rder to DEN & 3rd for M. Brunnell when he was going to be released anyway.) This trade is risky if you ask me. They could throw in a 2nd Rder just in case Moss isn't back with us after this season or he gets injured again. I hope a another teams steps up with a sweeter deal though.

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